Bloodwork - Does it justify front-loading? You decide.

[Vitruvian-Man]

What's going on boys?

Everyone is always interested in knowing if front-loading actually allows for test to build up in your system. (so many skeptics.)

I front-loaded my Test-E this cycle, and these are my results.

Pre-cycle Blood Work:

Hematology Panel

wbc (4 - 10) -- 5.2 -- giga/L
rbc (4.2 - 5.4) --5.03-- tera/L
hemoglobin (133 - 165)--149--g/L
hematrocit (0.38 - 5)--0.43--
mcv (82 - 98)--86--fl
mch (27.5 - 33.5)-- 29.6--pg
mchc (305 - 265)--246--g/L
rdw (11.5 - 14.5)--13.1--%
platelet count (150 - 400)--162--giga/L

wbc differential

neutrophils (2 - 7.5)-- 2.4--giga/L
lymphocytes (1 - 4)-- 2.1-- " "
monocytes (0.1 - 0.8)-- 0.6-- " "
eosinophils (0 - 0.7)-- 0.2-- " "
basophils (0 - 0.2)-- 0 -- " "

tsh (0.38 - 5.5) -- 1.2 -- mU / L

glucose fasting (3.3 - 6.0) -- 5.5 -- mmol/L

Urea (2.5 - 7) --8.1--umol/L
Creatinine (70 - 120) -- 134 -- umol/L
eGFR ( >=60) -- 78 -- mL / min

^^ these levels are elevated because I was on accutane when I took the bloodtest. Not on cycle though.

ggt (10-- 58) -- 15 -- u/L
ast ( <30) -- 19 -- u/L
alt (<50 ) -- 12 -- u/L

Cholesterol (2 - 4.59) -- 3.68 -- mmol/L
Fasting = YES
Triglyceride (0.45 - 2.29) -- 0,81 -- mmol/L
HDL-Cholesterol ( >0.9) -- 1.11 -- mmol/L
Chol: HGL ratio ( < 4.9 ) -- 3.27

LDL cholesterol (1.5 - 2.99) -- 2.15 -- mmol /L

Testosterone Total (<4.5) -- 3.7 --

On cycle Blood-work (taken 2 weeks after first injection)

Ferritin (15 - 180) -- 28 -- ug/L
Testosterone Total (<4.5) -- 32.2 -- nmol/L
Creatinine (50 - 100) -- 95 -- umol/L
eGFR (>=60) -- 66 -- mL/min
GGT (10 - 58) -- 12 -- U/L
AST (<30) -- 43 -- U/L
ALT (<50) -- 47 -- U/L

As you can see, within the past 2 weeks my Total testosterone levels have increased by ~ 10 - 11x there off cycle amount.

Moreover, my creatinine levels are quite high (and will get higher... I always worry about my kidneys!)

(BTW, if you're wondering why I didn't get estrogen, etc checked.. I have never had gyno.. so I see no point.. and these tests are f****ing expensive... so you boys better appreciate it )!!! lol

Things to remember:

a.) Total Test went from 3.7 to 32.2
b.) eGFR went from 78 to 66
c.) AST went from 19 - 43 (raised 24 points) ouch.
d.) ALT went from 12 to 47. (raised 35 points)

My current cycle is:

T-bol/NPP/Test-E/Primo

...So what do you boys think? Give me some feedback...

(especially interested in paramedics, etcs opinions ) Thanks y'all.

[FireGuy]

It would be interesting to have the same test done without front loading and see what the difference is in the numbers. Also, you didnt mention how many mgs you front loaded with.

[Vitruvian-Man]

It would be interesting to have the same test done without front loading and see what the difference is in the numbers.

Agreed. I will do that on my next cycle.

I will think it's relevant that my test levels jumped to 11x the max (for my range / age-group) in 14 days!

Also, you didnt mention how many mgs you front loaded with.

dosage = 650mg EW
frontload = 1300mg

[Vitruvian-Man]

bump.

[marcus300]

From my experience frontloading works wonders, I can cut the cycle length down and I feel the Test kicking within the first week and gains start to appear and build, all the benefits of cycling but alot sooner than if i would of just done a normal way of loading a long estered Test.

I am one of those guys though who responds quickly when i do start a cycle and i find the first half of cycling far better than the later part, so I knew this way of getting blood levels up to peak was going to work for me. But I do know a few guys who dont like frontloading and they prefer letting the compound build up over the first 4-5 weeks of the first part of the cycle and running it longer.

I guess its something what you have to try and see if you respond or not to, we all dont react the same when we introduce compounds into our bodies, some like little or light cycles and some like heavier type of cycling. Finding which method works for best for you in relation to sides vs gains is the key to moving forward with muscle building.

I dont think its in question what it does to your blood values but weather you respond to it is a different matter IMHO.

[Vitruvian-Man]

From my experience frontloading works wonders, I can cut the cycle length down and I feel the Test kicking within the first week and gains start to appear and build, all the benefits of cycling but alot sooner than if i would of just done a normal way of loading a long estered Test.

I am one of those guys though who responds quickly when i do start a cycle and i find the first half of cycling far better than the later part, so I knew this way of getting blood levels up to peak was going to work for me. But I do know a few guys who dont like frontloading and they prefer letting the compound build up over the first 4-5 weeks of the first part of the cycle and running it longer.

I guess its something what you have to try and see if you respond or not to, we all dont react the same when we introduce compounds into our bodies, some like little or light cycles and some like heavier type of cycling. Finding which method works for best for you in relation to sides vs gains is the key to moving forward with muscle building.

I dont think its in question what it does to your blood values but weather you respond to it is a different matter IMHO.

Well said, very cool post Marcus. I appreciate that.

I wasn't trying to prove anything by thing thread, I just thought it was interesting how elevated my numbers were though, and thought I would share . I'll probably continue to frontload in the future though. I do like this protocol.

[marcus300]

Well said, very cool post Marcus. I appreciate that.

I wasn't trying to prove anything by thing thread, I just thought it was interesting how elevated my numbers were though, and thought I would share . I'll probably continue to frontload in the future though. I do like this protocol.

I wasnt implying you was trying to prove anything, I was giving my opinion on it really .

Its a great thread because if you backed this up with a normal test cycle bloodwork without the frontload you could see the advantages it as in the body/blood, that would be interesting and would back up the claims or help the dis-believers, but either way if it works, use it. If it doesnt carry on with what does.

[marcus300]

This shouldnt be in here - needs moving to the aas section

[Vitruvian-Man]

I wasnt implying you was trying to prove anything, I was giving my opinion on it really .

Its a great thread because if you backed this up with a normal test cycle bloodwork without the frontload you could see the advantages it as in the body/blood, that would be interesting and would back up the claims or help the dis-believers, but either way if it works, use it. If it doesnt carry on with what does.

I've been trying to find my old blood-test results! Unfortunately for some reason I didn't scan my previous cycles results (which wasn't front-loaded).

I'm going to continue to look for those things, I know I've filled them away somewhere silly.

This shouldnt be in here - needs moving to the aas section

Sorry! Thought I put it in the right section.

[marcus300]

I've been trying to find my old blood-test results! Unfortunately for some reason I didn't scan my previous cycles results (which wasn't front-loaded).

I'm going to continue to look for those things, I know I've filled them away somewhere silly.



Sorry! Thought I put it in the right section.

I just think it would be an interesting topic in the AAS section, not many come in here, but if your happy with it fine.

Yes, try and dig your old results out, would be good to see the difference.

[Merc.]

It would be interesting to have the same test done without front loading and see what the difference is in the numbers.

Yea I would like to see that also ^^ .. Very interesting topic.. I have seen great results with front loading.. I have also seen quite a bit of Blood work that correlates with your blood test Vitruivan Man ....




Merc.

[Swifto]

It seems your liver has taken a fair bit.

Whats your dosage of Tbol?

I used it as high as 80mg/ED for 14 weeks, with only a mild increase in liver values. I wqs also tested 3 days after I drank some alcohol at a party too.

[Vitruvian-Man]

It seems your liver has taken a fair bit.

Whats your dosage of Tbol?

I used it as high as 80mg/ED for 14 weeks, with only a mild increase in liver values. I wqs also tested 3 days after I drank some alcohol at a party too.

I'm running it at 90mg ED. I am going to be stopping the T-bol next week though.

My liver values are elevated IMO because of the T-bol, but also from the low dosage of accutane that I am running throughout the cycle (10mg ED).

Hopefully they'll stabilize a bit once I'm off the T-bol.

[Vitruvian-Man]

How's it going everybody... Just going to bump this thread with my new blood-test results. These ones were taken 8 weeks into the cycle. (exactly 6 weeks from my last test; and 2 days after discontinuing the use of T-bol @ 80mg ED... still on accutane @ 10mg ED though.)

Last blood-test results for reference:

Ferritin (15 - 180) -- 28 -- ug/L
Testosterone Total (<4.5) -- 32.2 -- nmol/L
Creatinine (50 - 100) -- 95 -- umol/L
eGFR (>=60) -- 66 -- mL/min
GGT (10 - 58) -- 12 -- U/L
AST (<30) -- 43 -- U/L
ALT (<50) -- 47 -- U/L

Current blood-test results:

Estradiol: 218 -- (within normal range.) -- reference ranges = post-menopausal / hypogonadal = (up to 220pmol/L)

Testosterone: (<4.5) -- 56.5 -- nmol/L

Urea (2.5 - 7.0) -- 3.2 -- mmol/L
Creatinine (50 - 100) -- 80 -- " " "
eGFR (>=60) -- 81 -- mL /min

GGT (10 - 58) -- 13 -- U/L
ALT (>50) -- 59 -- U/L

__________________________________________________ _____

Interpretation of results:

My testosterone levels jumped up 24.3 points. (making me wonder if front-loading is effective. My dosage has remained constant for the testosterone.. so I'm going to have to say that front-loading was NOT as effective as I first thought it to believe. Nevertheless, for the first two weeks I was front-loading with UGL test, and after I switched to pharma-grade, so perhaps that was the issue.) -- my testosterone levels are now 12.5 times the maximum-normal range for someone my age.

My creatinine levels decreased after I discontinued the T-bol, but my eGFR levels went up ~20 points.

Also, my ALT levels increased by 12 points.

__________________________________________________ _________

All in all, I'm very happy with the results. Glad to see the kidneys / liver are doing better now. (I've been running a gram a day of milk-thistle and hawthorne berry.)

Feel free to add any insight you guys have! Thanks again bros!

[BJJ]

How's it going everybody... Just going to bump this thread with my new blood-test results. These ones were taken 8 weeks into the cycle. (exactly 6 weeks from my last test; and 2 days after discontinuing the use of T-bol @ 80mg ED... still on accutane @ 10mg ED though.)

Last blood-test results for reference:

Ferritin (15 - 180) -- 28 -- ug/L
Testosterone Total (<4.5) -- 32.2 -- nmol/L
Creatinine (50 - 100) -- 95 -- umol/L
eGFR (>=60) -- 66 -- mL/min
GGT (10 - 58) -- 12 -- U/L
AST (<30) -- 43 -- U/L
ALT (<50) -- 47 -- U/L

Current blood-test results:

Estradiol: 218 -- (within normal range.) -- reference ranges = post-menopausal / hypogonadal = (up to 220pmol/L)

Testosterone: (<4.5) -- 56.5 -- nmol/L

Urea (2.5 - 7.0) -- 3.2 -- mmol/L
Creatinine (50 - 100) -- 80 -- " " "
eGFR (>=60) -- 81 -- mL /min

GGT (10 - 58) -- 13 -- U/L
ALT (>50) -- 59 -- U/L

__________________________________________________ _____

Interpretation of results:

My testosterone levels jumped up 24.3 points. (making me wonder if front-loading is effective. My dosage has remained constant for the testosterone.. so I'm going to have to say that front-loading was NOT as effective as I first thought it to believe. Nevertheless, for the first two weeks I was front-loading with UGL test, and after I switched to pharma-grade, so perhaps that was the issue.) -- my testosterone levels are now 12.5 times the maximum-normal range for someone my age.

My creatinine levels decreased after I discontinued the T-bol, but my eGFR levels went up ~20 points.

Also, my ALT levels increased by 12 points.

__________________________________________________ _________

All in all, I'm very happy with the results. Glad to see the kidneys / liver are doing better now. (I've been running a gram a day of milk-thistle and hawthorne berry.)

Feel free to add any insight you guys have! Thanks again bros!

Why didn't you take values related to test free, SHBG, LH and FSH?
Also, did you change lab? (your range creatinine values are different).