is PCT really necessary?

[MMAngry]

soo much false information in this thread...

Let me make it simple, if you're a beginner always take the advice of a moderator of vet on this board (you can tell by the colored names they have), over anyone else. 99.999999999% of the time they are right, and the other guy advocating something ridiculous is wrong.

Tren without test? lol

Cycle without PCT, double lol

You probably get all your info online from bodybuilders that take way too many drugs.

Although I agree that PCT is important.

[Matt]

No it won't.. you're perpetuating silly wives tales talked about on the internet.

I just did a low dose tren cycle and it worked great. As long as you pin 3x/week it's not a problem IMO... I've already done the reading.. Test does nothing in the event of the so called "permanent shutdown."
You really need to stop posting and spend more time reading.

Absolutely not, ive run tren a number of times and its one of the most suppressive aas to ones own test production.. This is fact, or are the hundreds of guy's on here wrong and your right.

Even at low levels testicular atrophy is certain, thats a fact....

Maybe someone sold you test claiming it was tren, i don't know but once you have several years of cycling with tren then come back and see how stupid you look at this time...

Just reading that statement in bold shows you haven't a clue what your talking about. We add test because our own bodies test production has stopped so we need to add test until the end of our cycle. We don't add test to help kick start our own test production...

If what your saying is true then by god we've all been doing it wrong on here for years, maybe you should go to the steroid profile forum and re-write all the steroid profiles, this could be history in the making. MMangry has revolutionised the process of taking aas....

[Noles12]

Absolutely not, ive run tren a number of times and its one of the most suppressive aas to ones own test production.. This is fact, or are the hundreds of guy's on here wrong and your right.

Even at low levels testicular atrophy is certain, thats a fact....

Maybe someone sold you test claiming it was tren, i don't know but once you have several years of cycling with tren then come back and see how stupid you look at this time...

Just reading that statement in bold shows you haven't a clue what your talking about. We add test because our own bodies test production has stopped so we need to add test until the end of our cycle. We don't add test to help kick start our own test production...

If what your saying is true then by god we've all been doing it wrong on here for years, maybe you should go to the steroid profile forum and re-write all the steroid profiles, this could be history in the making. MMangry has revolutionised the process of taking aas....

^^^x2

[Matt]

Ive just viewed everyone of MMangry's threads and in each one the responses have been, "you haven't a clue what your doing, you need to run test with tren "..

Darn and i thought this guy was going to teach us all something new...

[Noles12]

Ive just viewed everyone of MMangry's threads and in each one the responses have been, "you haven't a clue what your doing, you need to run test with tren "..

Darn and i thought this guy was going to teach us all something new...

Haha i wonder what BS article he read that all of a sudden made him think tren alone was a good idea

[MMAngry]

Ive just viewed everyone of MMangry's threads and in each one the responses have been, "you haven't a clue what your doing, you need to run test with tren "..

Darn and i thought this guy was going to teach us all something new...

Glad you have so much time on your hands, but your reading comprehension isn't up to par. What you just said about me is a lie.

Also, I've talked to a couple of vets via PM, after much research, and they agree that you can run Tren without Test. Most of them don't recommend it, only because Test level shrink and it's hard to perform sexually. However, I am a very virile person. I had no problems with any penis issues dude. Matter fact I was horny as hell through the whole cycle and if anything Tren made my cock larger. The notion that Test is A MUST when on Tren is BS.

Check out Rana's Tren thread for other posters that have run Tren alone.

[MMAngry]

edit

[MMAngry]

I'd also like to add that I talked to 2 different Vets IN REAL LIFE that said you don't have to run Test with Tren . One guy works at a supplement shop and said that you have to be careful with Internet forums because people try to get you going on as many drugs as possible.

As long as you pin EOD or 2 days you can run low levels of Tren by itself.

[Walnutz]

Matter fact I was horny as hell through the whole cycle and if anything Tren made my cock larger.

Tren makes your cock larger? I need to get on a tren only cycle, pronto!

[Big]

Glad you have so much time on your hands, but your reading comprehension isn't up to par. What you just said about me is a lie.

Also, I've talked to a couple of vets via PM, after much research, and they agree that you can run Tren without Test. Most of them don't recommend it, only because Test level shrink and it's hard to perform sexually. However, I am a very virile person. I had no problems with any penis issues dude. Matter fact I was horny as hell through the whole cycle and if anything Tren made my cock larger. The notion that Test is A MUST when on Tren is BS.

Check out Rana's Tren thread for other posters that have run Tren alone.

good lord, every time we drop someone for giving awful advice, another crawls out of the shadows.

[Hazard]

Glad you have so much time on your hands, but your reading comprehension isn't up to par. What you just said about me is a lie.

Also, I've talked to a couple of vets via PM, after much research, and they agree that you can run Tren without Test. Most of them don't recommend it, only because Test level shrink and it's hard to perform sexually. However, I am a very virile person. I had no problems with any penis issues dude. Matter fact I was horny as hell through the whole cycle and if anything Tren made my cock larger. The notion that Test is A MUST when on Tren is BS.

Check out Rana's Tren thread for other posters that have run Tren alone.

This may be YOUR case...... but certainly not the case for many. Telling someone to run tren alone is terrible advice. At the very least.... one should run test at an HRT dose.....

Also..... i'd like to know how Tren made your cock larger...... care to explain? If this was the case..... i'd have a 12' cock by now......

~Haz~

[Hazard]

I'd also like to add that I talked to 2 different Vets IN REAL LIFE that said you don't have to run Test with Tren . One guy works at a supplement shop and said that you have to be careful with Internet forums because people try to get you going on as many drugs as possible.

As long as you pin EOD or 2 days you can run low levels of Tren by itself.

Two of my good friends work at a suppliment shop...... one is an amateur body builder and the other should have competed but never did. These two guys don't follow ANYTHING thats preached on this website and the one guy who never competed is paying for it now.... he did things HIS way.

These guys at these store aren't the know all end all of steroids ...... infact.... they ride a fine line between whats just dangerous and deadly.....

trust them if you want..... it's your life. Don't preach this nonsense on our board.....

~Haz~

[Noles12]

Wow now more 18 year olds are gonna show up wanting to run tren because they think it will make their cock huge. Way to go idiot. Maybe it looked larger due to you being shut down so hard that your nuts had shriveled up to peas

[Noles12]

Glad you have so much time on your hands, but your reading comprehension isn't up to par. What you just said about me is a lie.

Also, I've talked to a couple of vets via PM, after much research, and they agree that you can run Tren without Test. Most of them don't recommend it, only because Test level shrink and it's hard to perform sexually. However, I am a very virile person. I had no problems with any penis issues dude. Matter fact I was horny as hell through the whole cycle and if anything Tren made my cock larger. The notion that Test is A MUST when on Tren is BS.

Check out Rana's Tren thread for other posters that have run Tren alone.

You can run anything without test. But does it make sense too?

NO.

[Swifto]

No it won't.. you're perpetuating silly wives tales talked about on the internet.

I just did a low dose tren cycle and it worked great. As long as you pin 3x/week it's not a problem IMO... I've already done the reading.. Test does nothing in the event of the so called "permanent shutdown."

You really need to stop posting and spend more time reading.

Yes, it will.

Dont make me post studies to make you look more foolish than you already do. If you want them, let me know.

Its postulated that 19-Nor's are so inhibitive to the HPTA because of their actions on the progesterone receptor. Nandrolone binds with 20% of progesterone's affinity to the progesterone receptor. Tren's RBA for the PgR is 60. Which would make it even more suppressive. Not to metion its around 5x as androgenic as Testosterone .

Let me guess, Nandrolone isnt suppressive at all either, yeah? It wont cause total cessation of endogenous andorgens in a matter of days/weeks. because if Tren doesnt, Nandrolone cant either then?

[calgarian]

Glad you have so much time on your hands, but your reading comprehension isn't up to par. What you just said about me is a lie.

Also, I've talked to a couple of vets via PM, after much research, and they agree that you can run Tren without Test. Most of them don't recommend it, only because Test level shrink and it's hard to perform sexually. However, I am a very virile person. I had no problems with any penis issues dude. Matter fact I was horny as hell through the whole cycle and if anything Tren made my cock larger. The notion that Test is A MUST when on Tren is BS.

Check out Rana's Tren thread for other posters that have run Tren alone.

Care to share the Vets name.......and are they from the Board?
Now I bet that Cat will get your tongue.........

[Swifto]

I'd also like to add that I talked to 2 different Vets IN REAL LIFE that said you don't have to run Test with Tren . One guy works at a supplement shop and said that you have to be careful with Internet forums because people try to get you going on as many drugs as possible.
As long as you pin EOD or 2 days you can run low levels of Tren by itself.

Actually, these forums are the opposite in most cases.

I have idiots that think the internet is full of bullshit too, sometimes it is. but if you know where to look, research and spend your time, you learn a great deal.

I mean, where else are you going to learn about AAS? Unless your studying something relevant to AAS in university, or have membership to every online journal thats relevant, this is the best source of information.

Tren alone may work in some, but its the vast minority. Therefore isnt an acceptable guideline to advise a newbie. Hell, I got acne on Test Enan, does that mean I absolutely WILL NOT advise Test Enan again? Na.

[brad1986]

1. Tren on first cycle? no good
2. tren without test? no good
3. starting any cycle without pct on hand ready to go? terrible idea

You need to do more research before messing with yourself that way. tren is way too strong for a beginer and anybody that siad you dont need pct is sombody you dont want ot take any advice from

[cybernox]

Care to share the Vets name.......and are they from the Board?
Now I bet that Cat will get your tongue.........

Yup. I'm waiting to see how said it.

[MMAngry]

Yes, it will.

Dont make me post studies to make you look more foolish than you already do. If you want them, let me know.

Its postulated that 19-Nor's are so inhibitive to the HPTA because of their actions on the progesterone receptor. Nandrolone binds with 20% of progesterone's affinity to the progesterone receptor. Tren 's RBA for the PgR is 60. Which would make it even more suppressive. Not to metion its around 5x as androgenic as Testosterone .

Let me guess, Nandrolone isnt suppressive at all either, yeah? It wont cause total cessation of endogenous andorgens in a matter of days/weeks. because if Tren doesnt, Nandrolone cant either then?

It's already been covered in Rana's Tren thread. Rana was talking about "permanent shutdown," and a couple vets spoke up and said that Test does NOTHING in the event of the so called "permanent shutdown." The only reason why people take Test with Tren is to make themselves feel "normal" while on it. I didn't have any penis issues at all. Do you concede that some people are more virile than others? This forum has too many bodybuilders that do way too many drugs. I think it clouds their perception. If I were to up my dosage to over 500/week I'd probably start stacking it with Prop. I ran 300/week and it worked well.

RE: "penis getting larger." I said "if anything".... meaning, I know it didn't actually grow, but when I was running tren my hard ons were larger. I was incredibly horny through the whole cycle.

This board pissed me off because it delayed my cycle people were injecting so much fear about how naughty tren is.

[MMAngry]

Yup. I'm waiting to see how said it.

No no.. I won't reveal my sources.. .go to Rana's tren thread for some clues.

[Hazard]

No no.. I won't reveal my sources.. .go to Rana's tren thread for some clues.

Quotes from Ranas thread......

Nice post RANA,

I would have to disagree with running the test lower but thats from my personal experience of running this great combo.

Keep up the good work

Thanks.
Regarding the test dosage you are one of the reasons I stated that Vets like to run their test equal or higher.

When I run tren I am looking to get all my gains off of tren and as stated above test is run low for varies facts (my sex drive) and can help keep the sides down. Other vets like Dukkitlaw runs this the same way.

Now you have other vets like Marcus which run his higher with no negative effects.

This is something you need to play with, if you're looking to run it there are a couple ways to try it. You could always run them equal and if the sides get bad you could lower your test or lower your tren, you need to determine what works better on your body. My body works great with 100mg ED of Tren and either 50 or 75mg of prop.

^^^^ Where does it say not to run test?

years ago i did a tren only cycle( the first time u used it) really harsh. i have tried with test after not as bad. I love results from tren i just get to angry and frustrated

If you run test it wont keep you from being shut down, but it will keep your sex drive up so you don't "Feel" shut down or suppressed, testosterone is suppressive compound itself.

From experience, lower test dosages greatly minimize the side effects, from estrogen/progesterone, aggressiveness to insomnia but......it does reduce the effects of the tren. A nice dosage of test/tren together makes you an animal, just depends if you can HANDLE IT.

I aint no vet.But seems like the ones I have taked to all agree run test higher.I did.I lov it wouldnt run a cycle without it.

Don't run tren without test....

Will Test prevent shutdown...... ? NO.... thats a rather dumb question as test is suppressive itself. My personal reason for running test is so I can come off the tren and still have test in my system while the tren is clearing. For me.... it makes PCT easier. Going straight into PCT following tren has always been rough.....

Also, just because one person is super viril and can hump like a rabbit doesn't mean the next guy can. Spreading around rubbish about not having to run test will just get some poor bastard in some trouble in bed. Does test HAVE to be higher than the tren? NO..... but atleast include it in the cycle.....

Oh and lastly..... We don't tell people this so we can make everyone a huge bodybuilder by loading them up with as many compounds as possible..... Now-a-days everyone thinks they're a conspiracy theorist......

~Haz~

[calgarian]

If I am wrong can any of the Vets correct me. The only time u dont need PCT is when u r on TRT. If you dont know what TRT is then dont worry u need PCT.

[stevey_6t9]

i think Hazard hit the nail on the head here;

Im no expert on tren , however from what i've read is that running test with tren is mainly to maintain sexual function, libido, well-being ect due to the harsh shutdown affects tren has on the HPTA.

Anyone agree/disagree?

[Hazard]

i think Hazard hit the nail on the head here;

Im no expert on tren , however from what i've read is that running test with tren is mainly to maintain sexual function, libido, well-being ect due to the harsh shutdown affects tren has on the HPTA.

Anyone agree/disagree?

I think thats what this guy is trying to say too..... except he's saying that he doesn't need test to keep his junk working. The problem with that tho is not running test might work for some but it's the exception..... not the rule. Running test can not only give you better results, but you can feel better, and in my case (not speaking for everyone) it can make pct easier by allowing the tren to clear my system before starting.

What it is..... is someone is going against the grain here and i'm not sure what the motivation is. Theres nothing wrong with that..... until a newbie reads this and says "I'll try a tren only cycle because this guy says it's ok"

~Haz~

[cybernox]

i think Hazard hit the nail on the head here;

Im no expert on tren , however from what i've read is that running test with tren is mainly to maintain sexual function, libido, well-being ect due to the harsh shutdown affects tren has on the HPTA.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Exactly. Test with tren is used for personal well being or else most of the Tren users will feel just the way in that Avatar Image lol.

Also Hazard is right .. I read more than a few times in different forums that test makes your system easy for PCT.

[Swifto]

It's already been covered in Rana's Tren thread. Rana was talking about "permanent shutdown," and a couple vets spoke up and said that Test does NOTHING in the event of the so called "permanent shutdown." The only reason why people take Test with Tren is to make themselves feel "normal" while on it. I didn't have any penis issues at all. Do you concede that some people are more virile than others? This forum has too many bodybuilders that do way too many drugs. I think it clouds their perception. If I were to up my dosage to over 500/week I'd probably start stacking it with Prop. I ran 300/week and it worked well.

RE: "penis getting larger." I said "if anything".... meaning, I know it didn't actually grow, but when I was running tren my hard ons were larger. I was incredibly horny through the whole cycle.

This board pissed me off because it delayed my cycle people were injecting so much fear about how naughty tren is.

What an earth is "permanent shutdown"?

You may not have any penis issues, but you sure as f*ck shutdown your enodgenous testosterone levels . If you stayed on Tren alone long enough or used a higher dose, you'll lose your labido.

Yes, some are more virile than others, but thats doesnt mean to say their endogenous testosterone isnt zilch.

Labido isnt solely caused by testosterone production. DHEA, estrogen, prolactin, DHEA's, SHBG all also play a roles.

Regarding this board, "pissing you off", there are plenty more boards on the internet that may put up with your garbage and suggestions of Tren only cycles.

[Swifto]

i think Hazard hit the nail on the head here;

Im no expert on tren , however from what i've read is that running test with tren is mainly to maintain sexual function, libido, well-being ect due to the harsh shutdown affects tren has on the HPTA.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Agreed.

If Testosterone isnt used for growth (larger doses) its best to replace what you already had previsouly.

The two main hormones used when we mature into alduthood are Test/GH. Many think that they are the only two androgens that can really be used in synergy. I've seen some amazing gains (real life transformations) from mixing the two at the right doses and blasting for 6-8 weeks. Thats exactly what I will be doing when I am old enough (25yrs+).

[Hazard]

Agreed.

If Testosterone isnt used for growth (larger doses) its best to replace what you already had previsouly.

The two main hormones used when we mature into alduthood are Test/GH. Many think that they are the only two androgens that can really be used in synergy. I've seen some amazing gains (real life transformations) from mixing the two at the right doses and blasting for 6-8 weeks. Thats exactly what I will be doing when I am old enough (25yrs+).

Have I ever told you that you know waaayyyyy too much.....

~Haz~

[cybernox]

Agreed.

If Testosterone isnt used for growth (larger doses) its best to replace what you already had previsouly.

The two main hormones used when we mature into alduthood are Test/GH. Many think that they are the only two androgens that can really be used in synergy. I've seen some amazing gains (real life transformations) from mixing the two at the right doses and blasting for 6-8 weeks. Thats exactly what I will be doing when I am old enough (25yrs+).

25+ .. you in teenage ?

[Swifto]

Have I ever told you that you know waaayyyyy too much.....

~Haz~

I think I know the basics...

25+ .. you in teenage ?

I'm 24 mate.

[cybernox]

@MMAngry: I see you watching the thread .. still no replies. Come on man .. prove it wrong with some truth. Even Rana's thread said TEST.

@swifto: Ah ok. sending a pm. lol