B6 toxicity levels....

[hatchblack]

I just read in a post somewhere that a guy said that 600mgs of B6 (pyrixodine HCL) is toxic at those levels. I was always under the impression that B vitamins were water soluble so what ever you don't use goes out with the urine. Was this guy full of sh*t....?

[bluethunder]

yup full of poop, not at that dose. Levels would need to be higher & consistant. It's excreted daily in urine. Thats what I remember about B vitamins..

[TheMudMan]

No he's not....... I will post what sides you can see with high dosages of Vit B6. 200mg ED is a safe target to be at if using AAS that will raise prolactin levels........ Higher dosages are needed when prolactin levels get too high and you start to lactate...... it's a toss up of the benifits of using the high dosages (600mg to 800mg) to lower prolactin.... or not and get gyno..... also bromo will also help here but it's extreamly harsh.

[TheMudMan]

Here it is:
===================================

Vitamin B6 is usually safe, at intakes up to 200 mg per day in adults.7 However, neurological side effects can sometimes occur at that level.8 Levels higher than 200 mg are more likely to cause such problems. Vitamin B6 toxicity can damage sensory nerves, leading to numbness in the hands and feet as well as difficulty walking. The National Academy of Sciences performed an analysis of vitamin B6 studies. They determined the safe upper limit for long-term use is 100 mg per day. However, under supervision of a healthcare professional, up to 200 mg per day of vitamin B6 can be safely taken by most men and nonpregnant women for limited periods of time. Pregnant and breast-feeding women should not take more than 100 mg of vitamin B6 per day without a doctor’s supervision.
Since vitamin B6 increases the bioavailability of magnesium, these nutrients are sometimes taken together.

[hatchblack]

Thanks TheMudMan...you are on point today.

[Lozgod]

Mud is right, I was just reading up on that yesterday.

[bluethunder]

After some research The Mud is correct. Actually, the upper limit for "normal healthy adults" is 100mgs. There are theraputic at much higher doses. Sides can be numbness hands & feet, abnormal plasma amino levels & possible muscell spasms. But again it still pissed out so you would need to have it for a length of time... good post. Right now I take 200mg daily...

[TheMudMan]

After some research The Mud is correct. Actually, the upper limit for "normal healthy adults" is 100mgs. There are theraputic at much higher doses. Sides can be numbness hands & feet, abnormal plasma amino levels & possible muscell spasms. But again it still pissed out so you would need to have it for a length of time... good post. Right now I take 200mg daily...

When not running gear that will raise my prolactin levels I use 100mg ED...... otherwise 200mg ED

[hatchblack]

****, and I thought this was a dumb question originally.

[groundandpoundpwr21]

****, I read somewhere 600-800 and im on 800mgs right now for the 150mg ed of fina until my bromo gets here. I guess its time to drop it down to 200mg?

[einstein1905]

As much as i hate to post this, I have to. It turns out that vitamin B6 decreases AR mediated gene expression by a considerable amount in vitro, I have to dig up the old papers with the data to find the actual concentrations used, but there are other drawbacks to B6. bromo still has the worse sides IMO, but B6 isn't benign either.

[TheMudMan]

As much as i hate to post this, I have to. It turns out that vitamin B6 decreases AR mediated gene expression by a considerable amount in vitro, I have to dig up the old papers with the data to find the actual concentrations used, but there are other drawbacks to B6. bromo still has the worse sides IMO, but B6 isn't benign either.

This is not what I want to hear..........

[groundandpoundpwr21]

Einstein uses to many big words for me.

[hatchblack]

As much as i hate to post this, I have to. It turns out that vitamin B6 decreases AR mediated gene expression by a considerable amount in vitro, I have to dig up the old papers with the data to find the actual concentrations used, but there are other drawbacks to B6. bromo still has the worse sides IMO, but B6 isn't benign either.

Shoot...bad news there. I am interested to see at what levels. The B complex that I take has 100mgs and my normal vitamin has like 50 mgs.

[TheMudMan]

Shoot...bad news there. I am interested to see at what levels. The B complex that I take has 100mgs and my normal vitamin has like 50 mgs.

I think around 100 to 200mg is safe but I want to see what einstien posts has to say.......

[monstercojones]

yea einstein... hit us with some knowledge. i was under the impression that up to 200 mgs was relatively safe while 300 mgs + was getting into toxic levels...

[TheMudMan]

Is this the study?
================================================== ==

TITLE
Modulation of steroid receptor-mediated gene expression by vitamin B6. 70 REFS

AUTHOR
Tully DB; Allgood VE; Cidlowski JA

ORGANIZATION
Department of Physiology, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 27599-7545.

SOURCE
FASEB J 1994 Mar 1; 8 (3): 343-9

LANGUAGE OF ORIGIN
English

ABSTRACT
Gene transcription mediated by steroid hormones has become one of the most extensively characterized model systems for studying the regulation of gene expression in eukaryotic cells. However, specific details of gene regulation by steroid hormones are often complex and may be unique in specific cell types. Diverse regulatory mechanisms leading to either activation or repression of particular genes frequently involve interactions between steroid hormone receptors and other ubiquitous and/or cell-specific transcription factors that act on the complex promoter of the regulated gene. Interplay between steroid receptor-mediated and other signal transduction pathways may also be involved. In addition, recent novel results indicate that moderate variations in the intracellular concentration of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (PLP), the biologically active form of vitamin B6, can have pronounced modulatory effects on steroid-induced gene expression. Specifically, elevation of intracellular PLP levels leads to decreased transcriptional responses to glucocorticoid, progesterone, androgen, or estrogen hormones. Conversely, cells in a vitamin B6-deficient state exhibit enhanced responsiveness to steroid hormones. One aspect of the mechanism by which these transcriptional modulatory effects of PLP occur has recently been shown to involve interruption of functional interactions between steroid hormone receptors and the nuclear transcription factor NF1. These findings -- that the vitamin B6 nutritional status of cells modulates their capacity to respond to steroid hormones -- impose an additional level of cell-specific control over steroid hormone regulation of gene expression and will serve as the focal point for this review. (AUTHOR)

MJTR: Gene Expression DE. Pyridoxine PD. Receptors, Steroid PH.

MNTR: Animal. Human. In Vitro. Pyridoxal Phosphate PD. Receptors, Glucocorticoid DE. Receptors, Glucocorticoid PH. Receptors, Steroid DE. Support, Non-U.S. Gov't. Support, U.S. Gov't, P.H.S.. Transcription, Genetic DE. JOURNAL ARTICLE. REVIEW. REVIEW, TUTORIAL

RNUM: 0 (Receptors, Glucocorticoid); 0 (Receptors, Steroid); 54-47-7 (Pyridoxal Phosphate); 65-23-6 (Pyridoxine)

GEOT: UNITED STATES

IDEN: ISSN: 0892-6638. JOURNAL-CODE: FAS. ENTRY-DATE: 940504. NIH-GRANT-NUMBER: DK 32459DKNIDDK. JOURNAL-SUBSET: M X. IM-DATE: 9407.

ACCE: 94192903

[einstein1905]

Is this the study?
================================================== ==

TITLE
Modulation of steroid receptor-mediated gene expression by vitamin B6. 70 REFS

AUTHOR
Tully DB; Allgood VE; Cidlowski JA

ORGANIZATION
Department of Physiology, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 27599-7545.

SOURCE
FASEB J 1994 Mar 1; 8 (3): 343-9

LANGUAGE OF ORIGIN
English

ABSTRACT
Gene transcription mediated by steroid hormones has become one of the most extensively characterized model systems for studying the regulation of gene expression in eukaryotic cells. However, specific details of gene regulation by steroid hormones are often complex and may be unique in specific cell types. Diverse regulatory mechanisms leading to either activation or repression of particular genes frequently involve interactions between steroid hormone receptors and other ubiquitous and/or cell-specific transcription factors that act on the complex promoter of the regulated gene. Interplay between steroid receptor-mediated and other signal transduction pathways may also be involved. In addition, recent novel results indicate that moderate variations in the intracellular concentration of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (PLP), the biologically active form of vitamin B6, can have pronounced modulatory effects on steroid-induced gene expression. Specifically, elevation of intracellular PLP levels leads to decreased transcriptional responses to glucocorticoid, progesterone, androgen, or estrogen hormones. Conversely, cells in a vitamin B6-deficient state exhibit enhanced responsiveness to steroid hormones. One aspect of the mechanism by which these transcriptional modulatory effects of PLP occur has recently been shown to involve interruption of functional interactions between steroid hormone receptors and the nuclear transcription factor NF1. These findings -- that the vitamin B6 nutritional status of cells modulates their capacity to respond to steroid hormones -- impose an additional level of cell-specific control over steroid hormone regulation of gene expression and will serve as the focal point for this review. (AUTHOR)

MJTR: Gene Expression DE. Pyridoxine PD. Receptors, Steroid PH.

MNTR: Animal. Human. In Vitro. Pyridoxal Phosphate PD. Receptors, Glucocorticoid DE. Receptors, Glucocorticoid PH. Receptors, Steroid DE. Support, Non-U.S. Gov't. Support, U.S. Gov't, P.H.S.. Transcription, Genetic DE. JOURNAL ARTICLE. REVIEW. REVIEW, TUTORIAL

RNUM: 0 (Receptors, Glucocorticoid); 0 (Receptors, Steroid); 54-47-7 (Pyridoxal Phosphate); 65-23-6 (Pyridoxine)

GEOT: UNITED STATES

IDEN: ISSN: 0892-6638. JOURNAL-CODE: FAS. ENTRY-DATE: 940504. NIH-GRANT-NUMBER: DK 32459DKNIDDK. JOURNAL-SUBSET: M X. IM-DATE: 9407.

ACCE: 94192903

Yep, one of them. the papers are older, so they're not available full text online. I have to go dig them up....maybe tomorrow.

[hatchblack]

so now we read that B6 deficient cell respond better to AAS....?

Conversely, cells in a vitamin B6-deficient state exhibit enhanced responsiveness to steroid hormones

[groundandpoundpwr21]

Hmm b6 to lower effectiveness of tren and tren gyno, or no vitamins and juice be more efficient, **** decisions. So I guess vitamins are bad now?

[Quake]

B6 has a direct affect on the nervous system overdosing and toxicity of B6 producing such sides as "nervous problems". Your nervous system is essential to your "power of action" too, it is always better to encourage "nerve messages" not discourage them.

As I have mentioned in another post AS is the only drug that is stipulated to have the "side effect" of mental illness. Deficiencies and "problems" with the nervous system play a great part in mental health.

You decide what to do, but facts are facts.

[kman]

bump this bad boy up