4,200 mg of test cyp per week?

[Eddie8]

Oh yea, I forgot. He laughed at my 12 week cycle time. He said just when it was getting in your system and working you stopped?

[BDTR]

Been there, done that. A bit too much for me, i stick around 3 grams, maybe a little higher. But it works better than anything.

[Eddie8]

Been there, done that. A bit too much for me, i stick around 3 grams, maybe a little higher. But it works better than anything.

So Bd, no big deal to you, doesnt suprise you. Do you have the kind of strength the my bud had? If so, is this what it takes to get there, or something close?

[1-Cent]

How fast do the sides start to get harsh after 500mg? Things like losing hair, more severe acne, etc.

I'm doing 500mg and the sides are barely noticeable, some minor acne, no hair loss, no gyno and I'm not using Nolva all the way thru like I planned.

[Eddie8]

How fast do the sides start to get harsh after 500mg? Things like losing hair, more severe acne, etc.

I'm doing 500mg and the sides are barely noticeable, some minor acne, no hair loss, no gyno and I'm not using Nolva all the way thru like I planned.

I dont know the answer but my friend suffered no hair loss, his hair looks good at 46. No gyno and he didnt even know what novladex, liquidex or clomid was. I dont think it existed 20 years ago but I am not sure. His skin looked great back then but we were 25 years old. I do remember an occasional ping pong ball sized zit on the back though, LOL.

[Troyboy]

If Arnold missed his Dad's funeral for a compeitition, I have no problem believing that they are so into BB'ing that they will do whatever means nessecary to win, and if it take 2-4g's of test a week then be it.


I know lots of people use 2 grams of test a week, I've read it in many hardcore magazines...

[joevette]

I don't know about getting that kind of strength, but I think there are better ways to get you to that size. ie. HGH, Slin, IGF-1 LR3 and still a heafty dose of AAS.

[BDTR]

Yeah, my lifts are pretty much that.

It doesn't "take that" to get there, but it can for some. Some people have natural limitations that are much lower than others, me on the otherhand, im a genetic ectomorph who managed to turn himself into a meso/endo.

So Bd, no big deal to you, doesnt suprise you. Do you have the kind of strength the my bud had? If so, is this what it takes to get there, or something close?

[RussianVodka]

4.2 grams a week seems a lot for me.

[Eddie8]

Yeah, my lifts are pretty much that.

It doesn't "take that" to get there, but it can for some. Some people have natural limitations that are much lower than others, me on the otherhand, im a genetic ectomorph who managed to turn himself into a meso/endo.

I appreciate your insight, thanks. It seems to me in general, that guys that juice at that level often down play how much they use or have used. Thanks for your candor.

[BlocRoc]

Good to see that BD chimed in on this one... I was waiting to see if any of the big DOGS would have something to say!

L8

[LuvMuhRoids]

More is better. I can back that up. Sometimes I get real crazy and pound 3 grams of test a week in me. When I do that I hit 280 290lbs and my bench is crazy over 500lb. Im at 2 gram per week but its a gram of test and a gram of fina and my bench is only over 400. More is better.

I wont even waste my time with anything less than 2 grams of anything.

I do have to say some people have nasty freaky genetics. I know a pro bodybuilder that is on 3iu's of gh a week for only 4 months ED out of the year. Then does 400mg of test 400mg of deca and 200mg of primo a week. He has his pro card and competes every year in the top ten every show he competes in. I know another guy that despite my advice about doing sustanon only once a week only does one amp every 7 days. I swear to gawd the guy is as big as I am but just a little weaker. At one amp a week he is doing really good.

Bottom line is genetics but more is better.

[Executioner]

very interesting thread

[Eddie8]

[QUOTE=LuvMyRoids]More is better. I can back that up. Sometimes I get real crazy and pound 3 grams of test a week in me. When I do that I hit 280 290lbs and my bench is crazy over 500lb. Im at 2 gram per week but its a gram of test and a gram of fina and my bench is only over 400. More is better.

I wont even waste my time with anything less than 2 grams of anything.

thanks LMR. Sounds like the effect is kind of temporary and when you back down the dose, you retreat to where your body likes to be?

[kingofmasters]

Im not saying that I agree with forcing almost 4.5g of hormones in the body weekly, I am just admitting that there is some truth in the MORE IS BETTER, when it comes to gear, or at least at the advanced levels.

And yes, 4.2 grams does sound a bit extreme. Which is a world away from 2g EW.

But, if you were willing to take the pain of poking daily and injecting that much oil into the body, and were aware of the potential risks... IT is possible to do, not easily, I TOTALLY understand that, but it is possible.

L8

I don't agree with you!,
especially since he is talking about 4,2 grams a week of ONE compound.
(not total 4,2 grams a week of all sorts of steroids that complement each other or are synergistical if dosed at the same time)

Remember recommended dosages mostly are based on EFFICIENCY:
Meaning: Most Gains with the Least Sides

Note with this is offcourse most gains with least sides for a Certain Goal (why dosages of Test we use, are far higher then used for Men on HRT)

I don't think that unless you are at the level of PRO's, you need 4 grams of Test; Even 4 grams of all sorts of compounds is way much (I use about 2 grams if doing Test/Tren /boldenon/DHT-oral cycle )...

The sides wouldn't justify the minimal extra gains.

Greets
Kingofmasters

P.S. As a medical specialist, I just wanted to tell the person who started this thread and said that the bro is healthy, yes perhaps he STILL is!
(I can guarantee you that if what he says is true; about continous usage with such high doses on cycle that his Hypothalamus and Hypofyse are all screwed up, meaning he is probably impotent and infertile and has morec moodswings than a pregnant woman during hormoneswings, but what is more important is that he is hiding his health problems from you, or he will soon discover the stress he put his body on --> Most people like him won't live past 50 especially the NON-pros who aren't constantly monitored by doctors)

[Warrior]

I don't agree with you!,
especially since he is talking about 4,2 grams a week of ONE compound.
(not total 4,2 grams a week of all sorts of steroids that complement each other or are synergistical if dosed at the same time)

Remember recommended dosages mostly are based on EFFICIENCY:
Meaning: Most Gains with the Least Sides

Note with this is offcourse most gains with least sides for a Certain Goal (why dosages of Test we use, are far higher then used for Men on HRT)

I don't think that unless you are at the level of PRO's, you need 4 grams of Test; Even 4 grams of all sorts of compounds is way much (I use about 2 grams if doing Test/Tren /boldenon/DHT-oral cycle )...

The sides wouldn't justify the minimal extra gains.

Greets
Kingofmasters

P.S. As a medical specialist, I just wanted to tell the person who started this thread and said that the bro is healthy, yes perhaps he STILL is!
(I can guarantee you that if what he says is true; about continous usage with such high doses on cycle that his Hypothalamus and Hypofyse are all screwed up, meaning he is probably impotent and infertile and has morec moodswings than a pregnant woman during hormoneswings, but what is more important is that he is hiding his health problems from you, or he will soon discover the stress he put his body on --> Most people like him won't live past 50 especially the NON-pros who aren't constantly monitored by doctors)

yes sir

[Eddie8]

I don't agree with you!,
especially since he is talking about 4,2 grams a week of ONE compound.
(not total 4,2 grams a week of all sorts of steroids that complement each other or are synergistical if dosed at the same time)

Remember recommended dosages mostly are based on EFFICIENCY:
Meaning: Most Gains with the Least Sides

Note with this is offcourse most gains with least sides for a Certain Goal (why dosages of Test we use, are far higher then used for Men on HRT)

I don't think that unless you are at the level of PRO's, you need 4 grams of Test; Even 4 grams of all sorts of compounds is way much (I use about 2 grams if doing Test/Tren /boldenon/DHT-oral cycle )...

The sides wouldn't justify the minimal extra gains.

Greets
Kingofmasters

P.S. As a medical specialist, I just wanted to tell the person who started this thread and said that the bro is healthy, yes perhaps he STILL is!
(I can guarantee you that if what he says is true; about continous usage with such high doses on cycle that his Hypothalamus and Hypofyse are all screwed up, meaning he is probably impotent and infertile and has morec moodswings than a pregnant woman during hormoneswings, but what is more important is that he is hiding his health problems from you, or he will soon discover the stress he put his body on --> Most people like him won't live past 50 especially the NON-pros who aren't constantly monitored by doctors)

King...Thanks for your thoughts on this, I am the guy that started this thread and I appreciate your theories. What I was looking for and did receive on this post were responses from Bros that "actually had experience" in taking or having specific knowledge of friends that have taken these amounts of Test. Of course I have no way of knowing truly what kind of health my friend is in as you mentioned, some 15 years after taking these amounts of Test but I do know he is not infertile, has 2 kids, and he looks good. Theory tells us all the things you say but he took D-bol and a sh*t load of other things from the age of 15. Your theories tell us he should be totally fu*ked up, but he is not and he went on from 15 years old and performed well through his body building phase of life for 20 years. If you look at pics of Arnold when he was 18, logic tells me he too took AAS at 15 or so, even though we all want to think it was genetics because it is Arnold but I doubt it. As far as the mood swings that you mentioned, my friend had those when he was on 4g a week, he seems much more mellow now and still has the same wife for 23 years. I think that we are naive to think that the pros only take large dosages after they are big enough to be pro.....how do you think that they are the one in a million that got there in the first place. It is a win at all costs attitude, a total disregard for conventional wisdom and for most I think a lack of knowledge to what they are doing that most on this board do not posses, myself included. If you read between the lines on these posts to this thread you will discover from the bros that have taken these amounts and those who know others that have too, that this is probably what it takes to climb to the big time, they don’t just start once they get there. As far as "minimal gains" for the increased dosage, I think that you are fooling yourself. Try stratospheric gains for the increased dosage and probably minimal additional sides based on what I hear, although there are exceptions. I as you, think that some have health problems at an older age that have done this. Arnold’s heart surgery probably wasn’t the result of a weak untrained heart or a sedentary life style, but who knows for sure. The things that you speak of are more theory because you have no one to test at these levels of intake (at least I don’t think you do) because the guys that have taken these levels of AAS generally wont admit to it, you can only speculate what will happen. If we all had the same poor tolerance for these drugs that the theories tell us we do, then all of the pros would die because all of them take these types of dosages as I see it. Also if you think that Arnold, Franco, Sergio, Katz, Grymkowski and such were monitored by doctors you are nuts. I happen to know one of these guys and they shot and ate any type of AAS they could get their hands on whenever they could get it early in their careers as body builders. The cycle that they chose was based purely on what they could get their hands on and they would try anything because they didn’t care about the risks. If these dosages that we all consider to be “safe” and “logical” were the amounts that every body builder took then we would all look like pros, or they would all look like us, regardless of genetics. The guys with the superior genetics would still win the shows but we would all be freaks and we are not. I think what I have learned from this thread by the posts of the Bros that “know” is, if you want to be one of the big boys you have to step up and do what the big boys do and that is to step out beyond the ties of conventional wisdom and be a pioneer. IMO

Thanks for all of the great posts and thanks for your thoughts KOM,

Eddie8

Ps. What masters are you the king of?

[ColdSore]

nice post eddie...i agree with alot of what you said...i think KOM also had some good points...

personally ill stick with big doses = big men...thats just me...i dont talk about it b/c as youll find this board is very reserved with the way things are looked at and portrayed...

[kingofmasters]

King...Thanks for your thoughts on this, I am the guy that started this thread and I appreciate your theories. What I was looking for and did receive on this post were responses from Bros that "actually had experience" in taking or having specific knowledge of friends that have taken these amounts of Test. Of course I have no way of knowing truly what kind of health my friend is in as you mentioned, some 15 years after taking these amounts of Test but I do know he is not infertile, has 2 kids, and he looks good. Theory tells us all the things you say but he took D-bol and a sh*t load of other things from the age of 15. Your theories tell us he should be totally fu*ked up, but he is not and he went on from 15 years old and performed well through his body building phase of life for 20 years. If you look at pics of Arnold when he was 18, logic tells me he too took AAS at 15 or so, even though we all want to think it was genetics because it is Arnold but I doubt it. As far as the mood swings that you mentioned, my friend had those when he was on 4g a week, he seems much more mellow now and still has the same wife for 23 years. I think that we are naive to think that the pros only take large dosages after they are big enough to be pro.....how do you think that they are the one in a million that got there in the first place. It is a win at all costs attitude, a total disregard for conventional wisdom and for most I think a lack of knowledge to what they are doing that most on this board do not posses, myself included. If you read between the lines on these posts to this thread you will discover from the bros that have taken these amounts and those who know others that have too, that this is probably what it takes to climb to the big time, they don’t just start once they get there. As far as "minimal gains" for the increased dosage, I think that you are fooling yourself. Try stratospheric gains for the increased dosage and probably minimal additional sides based on what I hear, although there are exceptions. I as you, think that some have health problems at an older age that have done this. Arnold’s heart surgery probably wasn’t the result of a weak untrained heart or a sedentary life style, but who knows for sure. The things that you speak of are more theory because you have no one to test at these levels of intake (at least I don’t think you do) because the guys that have taken these levels of AAS generally wont admit to it, you can only speculate what will happen. If we all had the same poor tolerance for these drugs that the theories tell us we do, then all of the pros would die because all of them take these types of dosages as I see it. Also if you think that Arnold, Franco, Sergio, Katz, Grymkowski and such were monitored by doctors you are nuts. I happen to know one of these guys and they shot and ate any type of AAS they could get their hands on whenever they could get it early in their careers as body builders. The cycle that they chose was based purely on what they could get their hands on and they would try anything because they didn’t care about the risks. If these dosages that we all consider to be “safe” and “logical” were the amounts that every body builder took then we would all look like pros, or they would all look like us, regardless of genetics. The guys with the superior genetics would still win the shows but we would all be freaks and we are not. I think what I have learned from this thread by the posts of the Bros that “know” is, if you want to be one of the big boys you have to step up and do what the big boys do and that is to step out beyond the ties of conventional wisdom and be a pioneer. IMO

Thanks for all of the great posts and thanks for your thoughts KOM,

Eddie8

Ps. What masters are you the king of?

I think you are probably ignoring the fact that large amounts of Testosteron enlarges Hartchambers thus requiring Beta Blockers or "Peeing pills" or the now famous "Batista-method".
Hartproblems are unavoidable for that guy (or maybe he is one in a billion!)

BB isn't about High dosages but commitment to an extreme lifestyle (try eating and working out like PROS!!) and GENETICS...

I think it is you who doesn't have comparable data about High dosages, try finding studies about Rats, Dogs, Apes & pigs (the latter have the closest genetics to ours) they use Dosages that would make 4,2 grams a DAY look little!

If anything --> We don't have scientific data about Our recommended dosages, since you then have to monitor casual Juice-users so this would be much harder to do from a realistic standpoint (Try finding people to admit they juice and pay them etc...).

And no! --> Higher doses aren't a linear line with gains! (above a certain point the gains are minimal) --> I'm sure everybody agrees 4,2 grams is WELL above that line
(Let's say this is 6 times the amount taken by experienced Bros, then you say The results are spectacular --> Why? Because he gained about twice as much of what one normally expects from a 700 mg cycle...
Twice as much is alot but it doesn't justify the 6-fold in dosage!)

And you know what is really scary about the Human Body!
Real damage!! is always LONG TERM (maybe he hasn't experienced much visible side-effects which are shortterm, but unless he is a FREAK I can guarantee you that after that much ABUSE his body is all screwed up on the inside)
That's why the bodybuilders do die or get Damaged --> But only in the Long run (Flex Wheeler, Arnold's Hartsurgery, Dan Duchaine, Mentzer Bros etc., most won't make it past 40 let alone 50!)

I think it is real irreponsible what you are trying to say!

Most important factor for growth!: Rest (mental and physical)

USE not ABUSE

Greets
Kingofmasters

[BUYLONGTERM]

I think you are probably ignoring the fact that large amounts of Testosteron enlarges Hartchambers thus requiring Beta Blockers or "Peeing pills" or the now famous "Batista-method".
Hartproblems are unavoidable for that guy (or maybe he is one in a billion!)

BB isn't about High dosages but commitment to an extreme lifestyle (try eating and working out like PROS!!) and GENETICS...

I think it is you who doesn't have comparable data about High dosages, try finding studies about Rats, Dogs, Apes & pigs (the latter have the closest genetics to ours) they use Dosages that would make 4,2 grams a day look little!

If anything --> We don't have scientific data about Our recommended dosages, since you then have to monitor casual Juice-users so this would be much harder to do from a realistic standpoint (Try finding people to admit they juice and pay them etc...).

And no! --> Higher doses aren't a linear line with gains! (above a certain point the gains are minimal) --> I'm sure everybody agrees 4,2 grams is WELL above that line
(Let's say this is 6 times the amount taken by experienced Bros, then you say The results are spectacular --> Why? Because he gained about twice as much of what one normally expects from a 700 mg cycle...
Twice as much is alot but it doesn't justify the 6-fold in dosage!)

And you know what is really scary about the Human Body!
Real damage!! is always LONG TERM (maybe he hasn't experienced much visible side-effects which are shortterm, but unless he is a FREAK I can guarantee you that after that much ABUSE his body is all screwed up on the inside)
That's why the bodybuilders do die or get Damaged --> But only in the Long run (Flex Wheeler, Arnold's Hartsurgery, Dan Duchaine, Mentzer Bros etc., most won't make it past 40 let alone 50!)

I think it is real irreponsible what you are trying to say!

Most important factor for growth!: Rest (mental and physical)

USE not ABUSE

Greets
Kingofmasters

Once again, nice posts. What a great addition to the board!

[kingofmasters]

Once again, nice posts. What a great addition to the board!

You make a girl blush!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[Eddie8]

I think you are probably ignoring the fact that large amounts of Testosteron enlarges Hartchambers thus requiring Beta Blockers or "Peeing pills" or the now famous "Batista-method".
Hartproblems are unavoidable for that guy (or maybe he is one in a billion!)

BB isn't about High dosages but commitment to an extreme lifestyle (try eating and working out like PROS!!) and GENETICS...

I think it is you who doesn't have comparable data about High dosages, try finding studies about Rats, Dogs, Apes & pigs (the latter have the closest genetics to ours) they use Dosages that would make 4,2 grams a DAY look little!

If anything --> We don't have scientific data about Our recommended dosages, since you then have to monitor casual Juice-users so this would be much harder to do from a realistic standpoint (Try finding people to admit they juice and pay them etc...).

And no! --> Higher doses aren't a linear line with gains! (above a certain point the gains are minimal) --> I'm sure everybody agrees 4,2 grams is WELL above that line
(Let's say this is 6 times the amount taken by experienced Bros, then you say The results are spectacular --> Why? Because he gained about twice as much of what one normally expects from a 700 mg cycle...
Twice as much is alot but it doesn't justify the 6-fold in dosage!)

And you know what is really scary about the Human Body!
Real damage!! is always LONG TERM (maybe he hasn't experienced much visible side-effects which are shortterm, but unless he is a FREAK I can guarantee you that after that much ABUSE his body is all screwed up on the inside)
That's why the bodybuilders do die or get Damaged --> But only in the Long run (Flex Wheeler, Arnold's Hartsurgery, Dan Duchaine, Mentzer Bros etc., most won't make it past 40 let alone 50!)

I think it is real irreponsible what you are trying to say!

Most important factor for growth!: Rest (mental and physical)

USE not ABUSE

Greets
Kingofmasters

Thanks again for your well thought out position. I don’t necessarily disagree with you but you are ignoring the fact that a "50% edge" as you state over everyone else that these higher dosages seem to bring is huge, regardless if it is a 6 fold increase in dose. That is what separates the men from the boys. I also agree with you that what I am saying is irresponsible for people whose long term health is more important than being as big, strong and freaky as you can be but I also think that you should not ignore the facts. All of those body builders that you mention in your post are all over 40 already and most are over 50. You are obviously a smart guy and I enjoy your posts but I respectfully think that you have your head in the sand to some degree when it comes to the reality of this sport and the way that AAS are used. The fear that you, me and many other bros have regarding to how extreme we are willing to go will keep us from ever reaching the heights that some have achieved. You can call it abuse if you want but that is what it takes. There are many doctors that will tell you that the amount of food and protein you take in is abuse in itself and it will shorten your life span. There are many that will tell you that any AAS use at all is insane. Do you agree with them? If you do clinically, do you care? This is no differece from a mentality state. You say, "BB isn't about High dosages but commitment to an extreme lifestyle (try eating and working out like PROS!!) and GENETICS..." I can tell you from personal experience of 25 years of working out in hard-core gym's that you are naive. It takes way more than this. It all comes down to what you are willing to do. The old time body builders that paved the way were extreme as you say but not like you think, they smoked, used recreational drugs and didn’t care about health. All they cared about was being the biggest and winning so they had money to eat and get some pu**y. If you follow our politics in the US you will know that Arnold has never changed. This exchange is fun but it is not the reason that I posted this thread. I asked no ones opinion regarding safety, I just wanted to know from the bros "with personal experience" if they have seen the same thing that I have, which is that it appears that this level of AAS use is what it takes to get to the top. I think that they have spoken. Have you achieved a 550 lb bench or a mid 700 lb squat for reps from your dosages? I know I haven’t, genetics or not.

Respectfully,

E8

[kingofmasters]

Thanks again for your well thought out position. I don’t necessarily disagree with you but you are ignoring the fact that a "50% edge" as you state over everyone else that these higher dosages seem to bring is huge, regardless if it is a 6 fold increase in dose. That is what separates the men from the boys. I also agree with you that what I am saying is irresponsible for people whose long term health is more important than being as big, strong and freaky as you can be but I also think that you should not ignore the facts. All of those body builders that you mention in your post are all over 40 already and most are over 50. You are obviously a smart guy and I enjoy your posts but I respectfully think that you have your head in the sand to some degree when it comes to the reality of this sport and the way that AAS are used. The fear that you, me and many other bros have regarding to how extreme we are willing to go will keep us from ever reaching the heights that some have achieved. You can call it abuse if you want but that is what it takes. There are many doctors that will tell you that the amount of food and protein you take in is abuse in itself and it will shorten your life span. There are many that will tell you that any AAS use at all is insane. Do you agree with them? If you do clinically, do you care? This is no differece from a mentality state. You say, "BB isn't about High dosages but commitment to an extreme lifestyle (try eating and working out like PROS!!) and GENETICS..." I can tell you from personal experience of 25 years of working out in hard-core gym's that you are naive. It takes way more than this. It all comes down to what you are willing to do. The old time body builders that paved the way were extreme as you say but not like you think, they smoked, used recreational drugs and didn’t care about health. All they cared about was being the biggest and winning so they had money to eat and get some pu**y. If you follow our politics in the US you will know that Arnold has never changed. This exchange is fun but it is not the reason that I posted this thread. I asked no ones opinion regarding safety, I just wanted to know from the bros "with personal experience" if they have seen the same thing that I have, which is that it appears that this level of AAS use is what it takes to get to the top. I think that they have spoken. Have you achieved a 550 lb bench or a mid 700 lb squat for reps from your dosages? I know I haven’t, genetics or not.

Respectfully,

E8

NO! it is all genetics!!
That 50% edge over everybody will come until even then you have reached a plateau, "Hitting the wall" as it is called (also double the gains isn't 50% more, it is 100% more; so technically you will have a 100% gain over the first).
Because like I said the most important factor for growth, is REST plain and simple (For regenerative purposes), and if you're body is GENETICALLY well built for regenerating tissues than you my friend, in theory can become huge!!
If not then no matter how much you take, you want be able to bypass a certain point and even worse you won't be able to maintain the mass!

Saying Arnold and the like don't have great genetics, is truly BS.
Since you said they do rec. drugs (many BB on tha level do), smoked and didn't care about their health and yet till even today when I look at these people they look HUGE!! (Arnold is well in his 50's now), being able to maintain so much mass and while doing rec. drugs, smoking etc.
And that is Genetics...

And I think you offended a lot of people saying it takes High Dosages to get to the top; I truly respect the extreme lifestyle and commitment of BB since a life of Chicken and Tuna with extreme Nutrientquotas and extreme training with no Going out and having fun just to get your minute of Fame, is something that would be to great of a sacrifice for me and many others!

Also your posts contradict itself, first you try to make a case for high doses not being dangerous, by the totally irrelevant example of your friend who you don't know if he speaks the truth (actively or passively by getting Bunk or underdosed gear!) and whos medical history you know nothing about and set him as a standard for what it would do to the health of a normal man
AND THEN...
You say it is lifethreatening dangerous but we are willing to make that sacrifice.

I can tell you from personal experience of 25 years of working out in hard-core gym's that you are naive.

Oh okay, glad to hear that from somebody who has worked out in gyms for 25 years!
I'm just a Med student, doing also two studies one in Genetics and one in Ergogenics and training some freefighters while guiding them through SAFE AND EFFECTIVE USE of steroids (in stead of their dianabol -only cycles).
Just exchanging ideas with knowledgable bros in theories (like with Mallet and Einstein) and in real-life experiences, and always keep an open mind and change my views if they make a lot of sense (which is most of times!).
And I come here to learn from... and teach to Bros on this Board.

But you worked out for 25 years in hardcore (what a subjective term) gyms while knowing a pro BB, so you must have all the answers!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[kingofmasters]

If you need that much to grow... Christ, find another hobby...

Amen!

[MMC78]

If you need that much to grow... Christ, find another hobby...

[Eddie8]

NO! it is all genetics!!
That 50% edge over everybody will come until even then you have reached a plateau, "Hitting the wall" as it is called (also double the gains isn't 50% more, it is 100% more; so technically you will have a 100% gain over the first).
Because like I said the most important factor for growth, is REST plain and simple (For regenerative purposes), and if you're body is GENETICALLY well built for regenerating tissues than you my friend, in theory can become huge!!
If not then no matter how much you take, you want be able to bypass a certain point and even worse you won't be able to maintain the mass!

Saying Arnold and the like don't have great genetics, is truly BS.
Since you said they do rec. drugs (many BB on tha level do), smoked and didn't care about their health and yet till even today when I look at these people they look HUGE!! (Arnold is well in his 50's now), being able to maintain so much mass and while doing rec. drugs, smoking etc.
And that is Genetics...

And I think you offended a lot of people saying it takes High Dosages to get to the top; I truly respect the extreme lifestyle and commitment of BB since a life of Chicken and Tuna with extreme Nutrientquotas and extreme training with no Going out and having fun just to get your minute of Fame, is something that would be to great of a sacrifice for me and many others!

Also your posts contradict itself, first you try to make a case for high doses not being dangerous, by the totally irrelevant example of your friend who you don't know if he speaks the truth (actively or passively by getting Bunk or underdosed gear!) and whos medical history you know nothing about and set him as a standard for what it would do to the health of a normal man
AND THEN...
You say it is lifethreatening dangerous but we are willing to make that sacrifice.



Oh okay, glad to hear that from somebody who has worked out in gyms for 25 years!
I'm just a Med student, doing also two studies one in Genetics and one in Ergogenics and training some freefighters while guiding them through SAFE AND EFFECTIVE USE of steroids (in stead of their dianabol -only cycles).
Just exchanging ideas with knowledgable bros in theories (like with Mallet and Einstein) and in real-life experiences, and always keep an open mind and change my views if they make a lot of sense (which is most of times!).
And I come here to learn from... and teach to Bros on this Board.

But you worked out for 25 years in hardcore (what a subjective term) gyms while knowing a pro BB, so you must have all the answers!

Greets
Kingofmasters

Thanks.....You should read more carefully, IMO you miss a lot of content.

E8

[kingofmasters]

Thanks.....You should read more carefully, IMO you miss a lot of content.

E8

This isn't an argument at all!

What am I missing then?

Greets
Kingofmasters

[masswithclass]

[QUOTE=big4nuthin]I have been fortunate to know a few pro bodybuilders and I can tell you that 4g of test a week is nothing to freak out about when it comes to a certain level of bodybuilding or powerlifting. At this moment I know a guy who just turned pro and I can tell you that what he takes during his downtime would make you feel comfortable when you are "on". His greatest concern is the stress on the body when he is within a few days of a show. No water, lots of hardners and diuretics, and fat burners. Every organ in the body is just fighting to stay alive. Come to think about it he may have already had some kidney problem, but he is making the magazines! .[/QUOTE ]

I agree with this satement. I've seen Dave Polumbo guess pose at a show i was doing, he was like 300 pounds and his glutes were striated. Made me wanna leave the auditorium.

[einstein1905]

I think the best point made so far has been "gains are not linear with dosage". granted, there are non AR-mediated mechanisms of action, and they are significant, but there comes a point when you've effectively titrated ARs so that increasing doses really does nothing but increases the binding rate of AAS to ARs by very little. The difference between 2g and 4g is far less than between 250mg and 500mg. There are guys using megadoses because every little bit does give them more of an edge, even if it's an add'l 5lbs/yr (arbitrary number). It's their livlihood. I've never used above 800mg/wk of test, and I'm pretty **** happy with where I'm at. Although using 3x that dose or more would have given me more gains (how much more is anyone's guess), it would have also put a lot more undue stress on my body.

I ask that the guys that chimed in having used 2+gs of gear/wk and more to also state what kinds of health problems have come along with using megadoses of gear.....not to call them out, but there are almost inevitable health issues that accompany these types of doses..

I will admit this; given all else equal, you will gain more on higher doses, but with that comes a price. You're gains will also be, most likely, much less than you'd anticipate when tripling your doses.

genetics plays a huge role is one's response to exogenous androgens. This can't be downplayed enough either

[cpt steele]

for me diet and training on I made no signifigant gains until I used 750mg. I have spoke to a lot of bros and there seems to be a recept affinity, so grow on little and some need more.

[kingofmasters]

for me diet and training on I made no signifigant gains until I used 750mg. I have spoke to a lot of bros and there seems to be a recept affinity, so grow on little and some need more.

Yes I agree about depending on person, like Einstein it depends on genetics...
Just your 750 mg falls widely in our recommended margin...
4,2 gram of one compound is just ridicolous!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[UrbanLegend]

When you need that much test to grow you are either A) Ronnie Colman or Jay Cutler or B) in need of a new hobby, as has already been said. You are going to be using as many VIALS of injectable testosterone as most guys use AMPs when they cycle. If the vial is dossed at 250mg/ml like most are, and its 10cc like most are, you are going to need to take almost 2 whole vials of the stuff a week!!!! That is just insane to me!


Seriously bro, are you going pro any time soon? I didn't read the whole thread, but if not, maybe your body is big enough. I know that phrase is an oxymoron to a lot of us on this board, but maybe you should pick up a new hobby, something fun like a sport, or cars or something. As fullfilling as bodybuilding is, I think that the fact you are having to take such a high dossage means your body is a developed as it can safely be. Is your health really worth another few pounds of muscle or pounds of fat burned? Thats a question for you to decide, but even for a pretty obsessive bodybuilder like myself, I think that moderation in all things is best.

My advice-Learn how to square and line dance. I'm not kidding you, the hottest girls in the world like country music, you'll see what I mean!

[einstein1905]

One more comment. the guys that did comment that they use relatively (very) high doses....all know what the hell they're doing in terms of training and diet. I don't care if you've got an IV drip of suspension going, if your diet isn't impeccable and training and rest aren't optimized, then you're relying far too much on the gear, and you'll be let down

[Eddie8]

Thanks for all the great posts. I would still love to hear from more of the bros that have stepped out beyond what is considered acceptable on this board. Would also like to hear if anyone is pushing the kind of poundage’s that my friend was, without going way up on the gear. Can you squat 800lbs using 750mg of test a week with whatever else you stack. I found it very interesting that LMR posted that he goes from a 400lb bench to a 500lb bench when he ups his dose to 3g of test per week? LMR you are the man, not afraid to walk on the wild side.

[Warrior]

LMR you are the man, not afraid to walk on the wild side.

This makes no sense. LMR's choice to use 3g's shouldn't encourage others. Hopefully he plans (is) to compete and gets regular check ups. Sounds like you are encouraging this for everyone - AnabolicReview (Steroid .com) is about the effective uses of PED's... and the SAFE use... many people come here with little knowledge and before throwing a handful of dbol 's in their mouth they learn in forums like these. If someone chooses to use this much testosterone - to each his own... I wouldn't encourage it though...

This made me think about an ol' T-Mag article by Brian Batcheldor:

"A good percentage of the emails I get have to do with steroid cycles: which drugs, how much, and how often? Rather than answer these questions over and over again, I've decided to write a four-part article that will help the average athlete plot his steroid course and avoid many of the pitfalls that would otherwise await him.

"Before deciding what kind of cycle to follow, you have to define your objectives. Most steroid users will fit into one of four categories:

"1) Recreational user type A: Basically, he embodies every insult leveled at bodybuilders by the public. We deny his existence to the media because he has become the single biggest argument for keeping steroid use illegal. He is the prize jerk who calls himself a bodybuilder but whose image problem will always prevent him from competing. This never fails to prevent him from telling everyone how he would have won this or that show had he competed. His only quest in life is to gain bodyweight, and even this goal is subject to wild exaggerations, as he usually bull****s anyone within earshot. He has made obnoxiousness an Olympic event and loves to vent the only part of his body with a cut in it?his mouth?on the bulletin boards. He is addicted to abuse.

"2) Recreational user type B: This guy just wants to be in shape?he has no real aspirations of competing. He is usually realistic and sensible when it comes to compromising his health. His use is purely image-based, and he is part of the population sector that has made Viagra, male contraceptive injections, and testosterone and GH therapy acceptable. He is, therefore, perhaps the only acceptable argument for legalizing steroids .

"3) Competitive athlete type A: This type encompasses a broad spectrum, from the amateur competitive bodybuilder to the professional football player. His restraint is governed by his finances, recognition of his genetic potential, drug testing, or simply that he may not need Herculean mass for his particular discipline. He or she usually has a fair degree of common sense.

"4) Competitive athlete type B: This could be anyone from a pro bodybuilder, wrestler, or world-class powerlifter, to a World's Strongest Man competitor. His risks could be deemed justifiable, as his physical strength is directly correlated to his income. On the other hand, there are still a few who have lost touch with reality and are in Kamikaze mode.

"The best way to help those that belong in category 1 is to give them each a vial of insulin and a 5-ml syringe and tell them to go play. Those in category 4 represent such a minority that they would benefit most from personal consultation, as it would be massively irresponsible to print anything that was aimed at them. Therefore, the next three articles will be aimed at categories 2 and 3."

[slitsoul13]

im a rec user type b =)

[sepjuice]

over 4 grams a test?

[kingofmasters]

This makes no sense. LMR's choice to use 3g's shouldn't encourage others. Hopefully he plans (is) to compete and gets regular check ups. Sounds like you are encouraging this for everyone - AnabolicReview (Steroid .com) is about the effective uses of PED's... and the SAFE use... many people come here with little knowledge and before throwing a handful of dbol 's in their mouth they learn in forums like these. If someone chooses to use this much testosterone - to each his own... I wouldn't encourage it though...

This made me think about an ol' T-Mag article by Brian Batcheldor:

"A good percentage of the emails I get have to do with steroid cycles: which drugs, how much, and how often? Rather than answer these questions over and over again, I've decided to write a four-part article that will help the average athlete plot his steroid course and avoid many of the pitfalls that would otherwise await him.

"Before deciding what kind of cycle to follow, you have to define your objectives. Most steroid users will fit into one of four categories:

"1) Recreational user type A: Basically, he embodies every insult leveled at bodybuilders by the public. We deny his existence to the media because he has become the single biggest argument for keeping steroid use illegal. He is the prize jerk who calls himself a bodybuilder but whose image problem will always prevent him from competing. This never fails to prevent him from telling everyone how he would have won this or that show had he competed. His only quest in life is to gain bodyweight, and even this goal is subject to wild exaggerations, as he usually bull****s anyone within earshot. He has made obnoxiousness an Olympic event and loves to vent the only part of his body with a cut in it?his mouth?on the bulletin boards. He is addicted to abuse.

"2) Recreational user type B: This guy just wants to be in shape?he has no real aspirations of competing. He is usually realistic and sensible when it comes to compromising his health. His use is purely image-based, and he is part of the population sector that has made Viagra, male contraceptive injections, and testosterone and GH therapy acceptable. He is, therefore, perhaps the only acceptable argument for legalizing steroids .

"3) Competitive athlete type A: This type encompasses a broad spectrum, from the amateur competitive bodybuilder to the professional football player. His restraint is governed by his finances, recognition of his genetic potential, drug testing, or simply that he may not need Herculean mass for his particular discipline. He or she usually has a fair degree of common sense.

"4) Competitive athlete type B: This could be anyone from a pro bodybuilder, wrestler, or world-class powerlifter, to a World's Strongest Man competitor. His risks could be deemed justifiable, as his physical strength is directly correlated to his income. On the other hand, there are still a few who have lost touch with reality and are in Kamikaze mode.

"The best way to help those that belong in category 1 is to give them each a vial of insulin and a 5-ml syringe and tell them to go play. Those in category 4 represent such a minority that they would benefit most from personal consultation, as it would be massively irresponsible to print anything that was aimed at them. Therefore, the next three articles will be aimed at categories 2 and 3."

Exactly! Amen Brother!

You seem real hardheaded to make your point Eddie!

I think it is real irresponsible what you are trying sto say!
You want to use 4 grams of Test a week?
Go ahead!
Just stop encouraging others to use it, by propagandizing better results while leaving sides (and especially long term effects) out of the equation!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[ElWrightyJr]

u think 21cc is crazy two guys at the old gym i trained at where on 28cc on Sus a week and **** knows how much deca ! i think one got up to 310 and the other one stopped 5 weeks in b/c of high BP i think he was spittin up blood all the time

[Warrior]

Also your posts contradict itself, first you try to make a case for high doses not being dangerous, by the totally irrelevant example of your friend who you don't know if he speaks the truth (actively or passively by getting Bunk or underdosed gear!) and whos medical history you know nothing about and set him as a standard for what it would do to the health of a normal man

I was going to bump that awhile ago...

Everyone knows somebody... IMO - no one knows anything for certain, other than what they stick in their own ass... and even then - people using black market sources still don't truely know unless they get lab tests...