Why Do People

[coroner]

say "I only want to take the "safer" steroids ?

I mean comon here guys, if your gonna do it then do it right. Don't limit yourself to using so-called "safe" steroids because your afraid of liver damage, or hair loss, or whatever. If you have the balls to stick yourself with a needle connected to a syringe full of test or eq, why don't you want to take winny? Or whatever? The risks are there, sure, but with the proper research you can find out how to minimize those risks. Some of the anabolics that are out there may have a few more side effects, sure, but just because you read somewhere that these drugs have this effect or that effect doesn't mean that it will all happen to you. I mean, think of the drug Meridia-- one of the side effects of that drug is "oily discharge." Yet Meridia is a VERY popular drug!

My point here (and I do have one) is that you shouldn't limit yourself to certain drugs because of things that you have heard. Everyone reacts differently. Try it out before you say you won't use it.

[Mr. Fina]

vent it out bro, vent it out.

[EXCESS]

I see what you're trying to say, but you can't blame people for wanting to do it as safe as possible.

[coroner]

Originally posted by EXCESS
I see what you're trying to say, but you can't blame people for wanting to do it as safe as possible.

No arguing with that. Certainly, we all want to do things as safe as possible-- but that's why we research what we do. There's risks with everything, but if those risks can be minimized then we shouldn't be afraid to try.


(Go Team Canada!! Sakic for king!)

[Billy Boy]

I think what coroner is saying that there is no safe steroid as such everyone can have a different effect to it so you need to research the sides before you take it.Just as deca works for me it may give you loads of sides

[NightOp]

i know what you mean, and yes if we are taking the step into AAS use, then we should be prepared to deal with the consequences... but im a strong supporter of the SAFER and weaker cycles, which when done correctly and coupled with proper diet and training can yield amazing and lasting gains... Imean, my first cycle will probably be Anavar and Primo Depot running for less than six weeks, now that is pretty dang safe, and i think that if ppl don't want to hit the test or some of the stronger stuff, that is fine IMO

[JRob]

With all the misinformation out there it is easy to see one's fears. My first time, I mean cycle, I went with just sus because I was afraid of orals for all the reasons you said. After seeing how much of the info you read was bs I began to broaden my scope. I am now in my 4th cycle and am combining EQ/CYP/DBOL /WIN. Most will end up doing the same after they see how, if done right the side effects can be very minimal. The only problem now is how psychologically addicting they are.

[Mr. Fina]

Who wants to die healthy anyways??



A-Bombs and Halo year around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TNT]

Why do I feel like I'm watching the chicken-run scene from Rebel Without a Cause?

Seriously, as y'all know (you too, coroner), we have a policy of no flaming on the board. And I, for one, believe that if you can't say something good about a person, you shouldn't say anything at all.

So let me say this about coroner . . .

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Okay, now that y'all get my drift (and, I hope my sense of humor - yes, you too, coroner), let's briefly address the message.

I hate to tell ya, bro, it's the most irresponsible post I've ever seen here. (I hope it stays up, though. The type of dialogue that such a post fosters can be valuable.)

But let's extend the message logically. If you're gonna try something that's not safe, why not try heroin or morphine? Hell, it will give you lots more jollies than AS.

What makes Anabolic Review different than almost every other AS board out there is that we advocate the intelligent use of AS. And intelligense tells us that we should apply a risk-versus-benefit analysis to any AS cycle in which we engage. (Y'all may not normally think in those terms, but if you read this board, that's how you learn to do AS. And how not to do AS.) This is one board on which you will find vets, mods, and those with experience advising people not to do a cycle more often than we advise them to do a cycle, because we take into account variables such as chronological age, developmental stage, stats, workout routine, and even medical conditions. It's why you will so often find, when someone asks for advice on a cycle, that the first follow-up posts will say, "Hey, tell us more about you (stats, etc.) so we know how to give you the right answer.

So let's be honest. Coroner's advice is that you "shouldn't limit yourself to certain drugs because of things that you have heard. Everyone reacts differently. Try it out before you say you won't use it." I submit, o bro's and broette's, that that strategy is potentially suicidal - it amounts to playing Russian Roulette. Here at A.R., most people recommend just the opposite (in part, because we get tired of some newbies who write posts asking, "I just scored some _______ [fill in the blank]. What is it, and how do I use it?).

Do you research first, play it safe always, and if you don't know what something is then you shouldn't be swallowing it or shooting it into your bod. Because your bod is gonna be with you for, hopefully, a long a healthy life.

We don't do AS around here for our jollies. We do it for performance enhancement, with specific goals and objectives in mind. If you merely want to get your jollies, there are far more entertaining drugs you can use. But if you're going to do AS, this is one area in which you should play it smart, not dumb.

End of sermon.

But having just delivered my little rap, I have to compliment coroner. You see, I'm gonna give him the benefit of doubt here. That's because I find it hard to believe that anyone would seriously have written such an asinine post in the first place. If anything, a smart person would have written that kind of a post as a combination satire and instigation toward this type of dialogue. (Even then, there is always a risk that someone who is impressionable will do what he advocates.) If he was being a creative instigator, okay. (Especially on the part about the Meridia, which was damn funny.) But if he was serious, then I reiterate all the "not-negative" things I said about him earlier.

You see, folks, there's a difference between flaming and critiquing. While we should not flame coroner, which would be counter-productive, that doesn't mean that we should let his original post go ignored (which would imply agreement - the old sanction-by-silence principle), nor that we should soften the opposite point of view.

Be safe, everyone - always.

[Mr. Fina]

TNT, I don't feel that the coroner was flaming. I think this post needs to stay a top also. To a certain degree there is risk involving anything that you do. You can die by drinking too much water. I feel here at AR we continue to inform ourselves (the public) the ups and downs we encounter with our "expermentation" of aas. Yes and No to the predisposition we have given to "more safe steroids ". Your safety lies in your own hands. To what limit do you want to push your body in your expermentation? This is why knowledge is power. I do not advocate the use (and I don't think anyone else here does either) but please note that there is no safe side only a more cautious side to what you are about to do to yourself.

To all newbies, vets, and whomever I wish you all good health and good spirits when you are engaged in your "activity".

[TNT]

Mr. Fina raises some good points. Incidentally, I did not mean to imply that coroner was flaming; he was not. I meant to clarify that my intent was not to flame him, but to critique what he wrote.

To differentiate between "safe side" and "more cautious side" is semantic, to some degree - similar to the difference between causing a concom and calling it "safe sex" versus "safer sex." There is, indeed, a risk to anything, as well as to ingesting/injecting any type of medication. That's why every pharmaceutical drug carry's in its prescribing information a section titled adverse reactions - because there is no such thing as a drug that does not potentially have adverse reactions.

I find the question, "To what extent do you want to push your body in your experimentation?" quite interesting. Test pilots have long had a profound expression about what they do: they "push the edge of the envelope." But in ths case of AS use, I don't think we're talking about experimentation. There is a sufficient body of knowledge about the effects of steroids that we can educate ourselves as to the effects of various AS, then make informed decisions on how to achieve our goals. There is experimentation insofar as trying different things until we find the ones that work best; what we are not doing is merely experimenting to experience the effects of the AS themselves. In other words, AS are a tool - a means to an end, not the end itself.

To a degree, what coroner appears to be suggesting is that we try taking a car for a ride before we have learned to drive. I suggest that you learn to drive first, then use that "risk-versus-benefit" analysis to determine if you want to drive. Most people will drive; some people will determine that it's too risky for them to do so, and I can respect that.

As an informal "AS counselor," for lack of a better term, I can choose to push the edge of the envelope. But it would be irresponsible for me to cajole (a word I choose carefully here) someone else to do so. I can encourage, I can educate, I can give opinions, I can even give advice. But others have to be 110% sure before they do AS. My role is to be supportive, not to be a drill sargeant. We're not talking about yelling to encouraging the grunting-but-scrawny little bastard laying on the bench to do one more rep, we're talking about someone popping drugs into their body. And that's their decision, not mine. They will reap the benefits or the consequences, not me.

What we are talking about is a difference in mind-set here. Coroner is saying, "Take the risk! Don't be a frightened little wimp who's overly concerned about your liver and your hair line." I'm saying, "Maybe, if you're concerned about your liver and your hairline, there's a reason to be. So do some more research, and then make an informed decision of the risk versus benefit of using a particular AS."

You're quite right, Mr. Fina - knowledge is power. But when it comes to AS, we're talking about something which has a sufficient body of information available that we can gain knowledge in ways other than experience. Again, let me use the drug anaology. I have worked with both alcoholics and drug addicts, but I have been neither myself. Never shot smack, never snorted coke, and don't intend to do either. Nor do I have to in order to understand (or "have knowedge of") them.

There is, in short, a smorgasbord of AS out in that big, big world. One need only surf to the drug profiles section of Anabolic Review to learn about most of them. But, as in a Chinese restaurant, we might choose one or two from Column A and one or two from Column B - we do not need to "gain knowledge" by trying everything. AS, in short, are like any other drug - you may try one or more drugs to control blood pressure, glucose, cholesterol, depression, or anxiety disorder (which sometimes seems to be common around here ), but you stop when you find the right one. We may call that informed experimentation (as opposed to experimentation for the sake of experimenting) - the object is to find the right AS or combination of AS that will help us achieve our goals.

[Mr. Fina]

TNT, I am really enjoying your comments.

I do feel the use of any drug is an experiment. Your body is a walking chemistry set. Yes, I do think we are pushing our body to its limits. I believe strenght training and conditioning pushes the body to its limits. Yes, there is sufficient knowledge on human physiology but there is always room for more. Just like in one of my threads "how long have you gone on fina", for much time the general rule of thumb had been 6 weeks but it is gettingpushed to its limit. So much more is out there, I personally am never satisfied after each cycle is over. I feel I can stretch a little further and in a sick sense get a kick out of "my experimentation to my body." Will I pay for this in the long run? Yes, but the "results" I gain from my "experiment" can be added to the sufficient amount of knowledge you and I have right now. The library of knowledge we have here on AR will never have a set limit to what it can hold.

I want more!

TNT, the education that you and I can give to others on AR is just a catalyst. Just think of the people that will read our posts and in turn tell others. We are like a virus affecting others and they affect even more. My purpose on this board is to help others. I hope to give an impression of being open to constructive criticism and opinions of others. For example I really dislike sus but I will more than welcome the opinions of others on it. I may not change my view but I will appreciate all that is said. Help me help myself.

[coroner]

Great discussion guys. I appreciate the time you all have taken to reply. I must admit that I wrote that post late last night and wasn't too awake-- one of those "I can't sleep, but I can't function well either" type of nights.

Anyway I would like to clarify a bit. I wasn't trying to say "just do the drugs and then decide if you don't like the sides." Yes after re-reading what I wrote that's what it sounds like and says.

What I WAS trying to say is don't limit yourself to a certain number of drugs just because of what you have heard. Do your OWN research. And do it well; don't just do it half-assed by reading other people's opinions. Vet's opinions should matter, but you should find out FOR YOURSELF what the drugs will do. There's TONS of literature out there; medline, webofscience if you have access, etc, etc that can tell you a LOT about the particulars of the drugs we do.

As I said there are risks in everything we do. If we minimize those risks then we can take calculated chances. That's what it's all about.

Here's something you said in another thread, TNT:

QUOTE]Originally posted by TNT
We are also talking about an area that is highly anecdotal - there are, for example, many interviews (some of which appear on various AS boards) with persons who use AS, usually athletes. Obviously, these will be subjective in nature, but you can often find some good, quotable material as to rationale and benefits of AS. [/QUOTE]

I think we are saying the same thing. So I'm an Engineer! Sue me if I can't communicate well!!!

[Mr. Fina]

Originally posted by Diesel

I still research the advice they may give because it is my body and I will be the one suffering the burden of any sides that occur.

Bro we all would suffer with you. One for all, all for one here on AR

[TNT]

Originally posted by Diesel
While the Vets, Mods, and Members here are great. I still research the advice they may give because it is my body and I will be the one suffering the burden of any sides that occur.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with that one. Each of us, as individuals, will reap the benefits and/or the consequences of AS use. That's why I hope no one will ever do what we recommend without doing their own research. Again, it's a subjective area - what works well for us as individuals when it comes to a specific cycle may not work as well for the next person.

Coroner, you also noted something worth repeating, "There's TONS of literature out there; medline, webofscience if you have access, etc, etc that can tell you a LOT about the particulars of the drugs we do." Sometimes, people tend not to try the obvious - a plain ol' search engine, like Yahoo, Just pop in your search term and you'll usually have what the French might call a "merde load" of references pop up. You have to be discerning, keeping in mind that commercial articles are usually written by people with something to sell (especially when it comes to supplements), but usually you will also find reliable articles from universities and medical schools.

Anyway, coroner, it's nice to hear that your original post was one of those "dysfunctional late night" type of things. It resulted in an interesting thread, and the Meridia illustration was still hysterical.*
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* Okay, for those who didn't get it, Meridia is a popular weight reduction drug - the latest fad since Phen-Phen was taken off the market. A prescription drug, one of its side effects is "oily discharge." Translated into everyday language, that means a case of the sudden shits.

[Ironweb]

It is a personal choice in how you use AS. We come here to discuss our knowlegde and experience with others who use or are wanting to learn about AS. From our discussion and research we can make a educated choice in what and how we use AS and use it accordingly. Education is the key.

As already stated do your research. However do not trust one source you find on the net. Put sources together and compare. If you find two or three sources of information that are the same in context then you can use that as correct. Generally if someone is wrong it will not jive with other sources. Correct information will always match. If you can not find a match then do not believe just one souce of info.

[RUSSIANBEAR]

We come here to discuss our knowlegde and experience with others who use or are wanting to learn about AS. From our discussion and research we can make a educated choice in what and how we use AS and use it accordingly. Education is the key.


I agree with Ironwebb 100%. If someone wants to take something give them personall experiences and suggestions. You know how many people told me not to take "Halo", told me it was sooooo bad and toxic. Only a few bro's actually gave me some positive feedback and explained how to properly take it to avaoid neg. sides. Thanks to those who helped me out.