Let me get this straight

[maxamillion]

So AAS don't actually add new muscle to your body, all they do is enlarge your exsisting muscles cells is that right? So therefore some lilttle skinny punk, lets say 5'10", 125lbs 22yrs old, was planning on running a cycle. And he was told he could sweel up to 150, that would be impossible. Because if you don't have a decent base in the first place then you have nothing to work with, and your basically wasting your time and money. Does that sound about right?

[anaBROLIC]

well it depends on a few things.. id say yes youd be wasting your money if you dont have much training experience put in and if you dont follow a good diet...

[markas214]

People actually do it all the time. 25 lbs after one cycle is not unheard of. Now it's not all pure muscle. There is added fat and water. But with proper diet and training you could keep the 25 lbs which adds to your base making you stronger. In a year that weight could be worked in and become permanent. As Phatmark says it's good to know what you're doing when it comes to proper training and nutrition.

[MotoLifter]

People actually do it all the time. 25 lbs after one cycle is not unheard of. Now it's not all pure muscle. There is added fat and water. But with proper diet and training you could keep the 25 lbs which adds to your base making you stronger. In a year that weight could be worked in and become permanent. As Phatmark says it's good to know what you're doing when it comes to proper training and nutrition.

But with a body weighing 125lbs would have a VERY!!!!!!! hard time holding onto 25 extra pounds gained in a matter of weeks. Without being able to maintain it what is the point of trying so hard to get it. I think 125 is way too light to try steroids . At 5'10" there is much more room for natural improvement. JMO though.

[maxamillion]

People actually do it all the time. 25 lbs after one cycle is not unheard of. Now it's not all pure muscle. There is added fat and water. But with proper diet and training you could keep the 25 lbs which adds to your base making you stronger. In a year that weight could be worked in and become permanent. As Phatmark says it's good to know what you're doing when it comes to proper training and nutrition.

ok, but if you didn't have much muscle to build on in the first plcace compared to someon who's been lifting for a few years and has a good solid base, wouldn't the person with the solid base have a much better chance of putting on more muscle and keeping it? Just my .02

[Demon Deacon]

well yes but thats has a lot of to do with the lifting experience that bigger person already has and good diet.

[Mr. Death]

ok, but if you didn't have much muscle to build on in the first plcace compared to someon who's been lifting for a few years and has a good solid base, wouldn't the person with the solid base have a much better chance of putting on more muscle and keeping it? Just my .02

The inexperienced person may put on more weight, but probably not more muscle. Also, they would have a harder time keeping their muscle due to that lack of a solid base and lack of experience with weight training and steroid use . They would also have a herder time gaining in the future due to their premature use of steroids .

[worldtraveln]

The consensus seems to be that anybody that does not have a bodybuilding base to start with won't be able to keep what they gain. My question is does anybody have any prof of this? I mean, I see no reason physiologically why a skinny person can not grow and maintain weight off of a cycle. Now chances are that if they are skinny they don't know how to train and diet properly, but that is just lack of education. They could IMO learn and apply proper training and diet techniques just as they have with AAS aplications and walk away 25 permenant pounds heavier. The only real concern is that they are quickly jumping to a potentially dangerous alternative for easy gains that they could get naturally. This however doesn't mean that they won't gain or maintain the weight. It was also mentioned that they will have a harder time in the future to gain wieght. Really? Seems to me that even if you went on a cycle and lost all of your gains that it would be easier to gain them back naturally because of muscle memory. I don't see how previous steroid use would, once your HTPA is back to normal, slow further natural gains. A lot of this advice seems like anecdotal wives tales with no real evidence.

[Mr. Death]

Really? Seems to me that even if you went on a cycle and lost all of your gains that it would be easier to gain them back naturally because of muscle memory. I don't see how previous steroid use would, once your HTPA is back to normal, slow further natural gains. A lot of this advice seems like anecdotal wives tales with no real evidence.

Using steroids doesn't give you muscle memory, weight training does. Muscle memory can't make up for the difference in concentration of test in your body from using gear and natural levels. The problem is that after using steroids, your HTPA may never go back to the level it was before, even though you are seemingly recovered. Also, if you go from 150 to 200 pounds naturally, it will be much easier to get to 250 by using the additional help of steroids. If you start using steroids at 150 it will be easy to get to 200, but past that you will have to continually use greater and greater amounts of steroids (probably with less gains during each cycle) to get to 250.

[bluestrm]

Wow. Nobody said a thing about satellite cells. You are not just swelling up the muscle you were born with. Some AAS actually increase/regenerate satellite cells.
And like C130nav said, there are no studies to back up what everyone believes about starting AAS early on.
"Also, if you go from 150 to 200 pounds naturally, it will be much easier to get to 250 by using the additional help of steroids . If you start using steroids at 150 it will be easy to get to 200, but past that you will have to continually use greater and greater amounts of steroids (probably with less gains during each cycle) to get to 250."
That holds true for almost everyone. Not only because you were 125 to start. Everyone has to eventually raise doses or start stacking.

[shiloh]

The consensus seems to be that anybody that does not have a bodybuilding base to start with won't be able to keep what they gain. My question is does anybody have any prof of this? I mean, I see no reason physiologically why a skinny person can not grow and maintain weight off of a cycle. Now chances are that if they are skinny they don't know how to train and diet properly, but that is just lack of education. They could IMO learn and apply proper training and diet techniques just as they have with AAS aplications and walk away 25 permenant pounds heavier. The only real concern is that they are quickly jumping to a potentially dangerous alternative for easy gains that they could get naturally. This however doesn't mean that they won't gain or maintain the weight. It was also mentioned that they will have a harder time in the future to gain wieght. Really? Seems to me that even if you went on a cycle and lost all of your gains that it would be easier to gain them back naturally because of muscle memory. I don't see how previous steroid use would, once your HTPA is back to normal, slow further natural gains. A lot of this advice seems like anecdotal wives tales with no real evidence.

I was thinking the same thing. It is also said that if you have reached your genetic limit after training and eating correctly for X amount of years that steroids will get you bigger than what is possible naturally. So if you move past your "genetic limit" by way of steroids, you will have to continue to cycle or all of you gains will be lost.
If it is one's purpose to run a single cycle of steroids, then only people who have not reached there natural limit will have gains that can be kept since only they can go past the point that steroids brought them to.

[worldtraveln]

"Using steroids doesn't give you muscle memory, weight training does."

I was of course assuming that anyone willing to take steroids would also be weight training. The idea of muscle memory is just a theory I believe in from natural training since I have not completed my cycle yet. Does it not make sense? I mean you will be gaining muscle and then lose some of it when your hormones go out of wack during PCT. After PCT when your HTPA is back to normal you will start to gain again naturally if you are not at your genentic limit. During this time I think it would be beneficial for your muscles to have already been a larger size to aid in growth. Maybe not, I don't know. All I can say is that I don't see how this would harm a person starting at 150 pounds and not at 200.

"The problem is that after using steroids, your HTPA may never go back to the level it was before"

Yeah, and if you use heavy weights you may injury yourself and never be the same again. Also this problem exists for both the person who starts at 150 pounds and the guy already at 200. It's not a unique to your weight. Anybody taking steroids should realize that there is a health risk involved. Not only could your HTPA not come back but you could develop high blood pressure, acne, hairloss, kidney, and liver problems. Again do these symptoms not deveolp if you took aas when you were 200 pounds vs 150?

"Also, if you go from 150 to 200 pounds naturally, it will be much easier to get to 250 by using the additional help of steroids. If you start using steroids at 150 it will be easy to get to 200, but past that you will have to continually use greater and greater amounts of steroids (probably with less gains during each cycle) to get to 250."

Why would it be easier to get to 250 from 200 when you got to 200 naturally vs. aas? It looks like you are doing exactly what I was pointing out in my post. You are just perpetuating a rumor. Isn't generally accepted that aas does not clog receptors. This would mean that it is your body's genteics that requires high doses to get to 250 not the after affects of prior aas usage.

Basically aas is generally used in bodybuilding to either speed up gains or break your genetic limit. If you are using it to speed up gains then it shouldn't really matter when you use it during your training evolution(150 vs 200). The only thing wrong with using it early that I see is that you are putting your self at a health risk for the sake of quick gains.

[shiloh]

Well put!!^

[shiloh]

Bump for responses. I am curious as to what the more experienced users think about C130nav's post.

[bluestrm]

He is right on. Well said!