muscle cramps

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 07:23 AM

clen winny or t3 has anyone experienced bad muscle cramps with these ibn like unusual places.. its an absolute killer especially the muscle under my jaw bone seems to be the most painful

**BOUNCER** · 12-01-2004, 07:27 AM

Same here. Someone told me once my Clen was faked, so being the idiot I am sometimes I swallowed 6 together!. I thought I was going to die from the cramps.

That you K??

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 07:33 AM

stress can cause this, and clen will intensify. are you taking taurine 2grams first week then you can lower to 1gram every week after that. potassium? another thing i found to be useful was the mineral gold, liquid form (looks like bottled water) one tablespoon every night before bed helped with cramps and spasms. if worse comes to worse go to a doctor tell him your symptoms and he might supply you with valium (generic for 30 days is like 6 bucks).

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

Same here. Someone told me once my Clen was faked, so being the idiot I am sometimes I swallowed 6 together!. I thought I was going to die from the cramps.

That you K??

whats up man its me did u get my email..
ive been having terrible spasms unreal.
and it happened in the middle of a meeting the other day with bout 10 people around just couldnt explain it.

how wud stress cause it and i dont seemed to be stressed at all lately but u can never tell.
shi* i aint touching valum not a hope

***the original jason*** · 12-01-2004, 07:53 AM

I also get bad jaw cramps and i get cramp everywhere else, its a nightmare, i have found the only thing that works in quinine sulphate in tablet form not sure where you can buy it, buts absolutely spot on for me, none of the other 'suggested' methods do anything for me

peace

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 08:01 AM

stress can cause spasms and cramping. are you taking the supplements above? my jaw was sore and my doc said it was because of grinding teeth while sleeping and my neck and shoulders were stiff causing headaches, and doc prescribed valium and it all went away.

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 08:05 AM

man valum is way to much it can trigger alot of sh*t in ur subconsieous which may lead to pretty f*cked up stuff it is also extremly addictive its not a road i really want to take as for supplements ill be visiting my local healthshop later thanks for the help fellas

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Homer 8

man valum is way to much it can trigger alot of sh*t in ur subconsieous which may lead to pretty f*cked up stuff it is also extremly addictive its not a road i really want to take as for supplements ill be visiting my local healthshop later thanks for the help fellas

addictive yes if you have an addictive personality. trigger sh1t in your subconscious? and lead to what f*cked up stuff (well if you have a weak mind and get addicted, ok); what else though? this is so i do not make any mistakes as i take these now and again.

**D00fy** · 12-01-2004, 08:32 AM

when i get muscle cramps usually around my trapz and shoulders i throw a crap load of bengay on:/

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 08:43 AM

bump, homer8 can you explain how valium effects the subconscious? please. Please here on the open forum. Thanks for you help.

***the original jason*** · 12-01-2004, 08:45 AM

well if you have a weak mind and get addicted, ok

if you knew anything about it, you would know addiction is nothing to do with being weak minded, btw, valium is also "physically" addictive, whether or not you suffer from the disease of addiction is totally separate issue. Please dont discuss rec drug use here.

also, there was an answer to the cramp question above

peace

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 08:48 AM

addiction is weak mindedness. physically you would have to be on constantly, right? I just wanted to know how it effects the subconscious, and the other messed up stuff. (valium is not recreational if prescribed by a doctor for a purpose. )

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

addiction is weak mindedness. physically you would have to be on constantly, right? I just wanted to know how it effects the subconscious, and the other messed up stuff.

sorry mes.. ur subconscious is a tricky subject to talk about i have studied phyc and social science for 4 years and am now working in the field..
i wud have to know ur past history to tell u exactly how it could effect you. and addiction is weak minded i wud question that some of the most stong minded people are additcted to something afterall what is a weak or strong mind that is not for me to judge. personally i aint a medical doctor or phsyciatric but valum is far to exterme for muscle cramps if ur stressed its is usually prescribed to people suffering form depression

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Homer 8

sorry mes.. ur subconscious is a tricky subject to talk about i have studied phyc and social science for 4 years and am now working in the field..
i wud have to know ur past history to tell u exactly how it could effect you. and addiction is weak minded i wud question that some of the most stong minded people are additcted to something afterall what is a weak or strong mind that is not for me to judge. personally i aint a medical doctor or phsyciatric but valum is far to exterme for muscle cramps if ur stressed its is usually prescribed to people suffering form depression

that was not an answer to my question on my prescription and how it would effect me. it does indicate use for anxiety, but in all the literature i have seen not once mentioned depression.

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 09:09 AM

as i said already i wud need to know ur background to tell u this i am aware that it can stop muscle spasms but the side are to great for this reason alone. and yes annxiety is another.: Diazepam (Valum) is a member of the benzodiazepine family. Benzodiazepines are sedatives that cause dose-related depression of the central nervous system. basically its a seditave and there used to relax people in an extreme way so it does work for depression. thrust me man i have seen the effects of people on valum it aint pretty, but also taken into account these people have some prettu fuc*ked up lives

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 09:15 AM

PRESCRIBED FOR: Diazepam is used for the short-term relief of symptoms related to anxiety disorders. Diazepam is also used for the treatment of agitation, tremors, delirium, seizures, and hallucinations as a result of alcohol withdrawal. Diazepam is also used for relief of muscle spasms in certain neurological diseases. Diazepam is used to abort active seizures and can be combined with other drugs in treating severe recurrent seizures.

DOSING: Diazepam may be taken with or without food. Diazepam is metabolized by the liver and excreted mainly by the kidney. Dosages of diazepam may need to be lowered in patients with abnormal kidney function.

DRUG INTERACTIONS: Alcohol should be avoided by patients taking benzodiazepines. Diazepam can lead to addiction (dependency), especially at higher dosages over prolonged periods of time. Because of diazepam's addicting potential, dosages should never be increased by the patient. In patients addicted to diazepam, abrupt discontinuation of the medicine can lead to symptoms of withdrawal (insomnia, headaches, nausea, vomiting, lightheadedness, sweating, anxiety, and fatigue). Seizures can occur in more severe cases of withdrawal. Consequently, patients on diazepam for extended periods of time should slowly taper the medication under a doctor's supervision rather than abruptly stopping the medication. Tagamet can prolong the effects of diazepam and dosages may need to be decreased when these drugs are used together.

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 09:16 AM

DOSING: Diazepam may be taken with or without food. Diazepam is metabolized by the liver and excreted mainly by the kidney. Dosages of diazepam may need to be lowered in patients with abnormal kidney function.

also please note ur doctor shud have warned u about this while usin aas

***the original jason*** · 12-01-2004, 09:18 AM

addiction is weak mindedness. physically you would have to be on constantly, right? I just wanted to know how it effects the subconscious, and the other messed up stuff. (valium is not recreational if prescribed by a doctor for a purpose. )

lol, lets have a debate with reason please, not just "i am right and thats it" addiction is medically recognised as a disease, weak mindedness has absolutely nothing to do with it, I can tell you for free, from experience, I am about the strongest minded person I know, and I am an addict in recovery, and continue to work with addicts on a daily basis for the last 10 years, so i think I have a little room to talk.

peace

btw, you tell me when you are an addictive person, does your body know the difference between a prescibed valium and a bought on the street valium?

i dont think so

so in any case, i see valium as a rec drug as my body doesnt know the difference and reacts in the same way to it, im not suggesting people in pain or who have a dire medical need for it dont take it, only to be aware that for someone like me, its a dangerous scenario

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 09:18 AM

Yeah, I'm going to post about the same thing. But, it is not used for depression but can cause it with prolonged use and discontinuance. Nowhere does it have an effect on the subconscious.

BRAND NAME: Valium
DRUG CLASS: Diazepam is a member of the benzodiazepine family. Benzodiazepines are sedatives that cause dose-related depression of the central nervous system. They are useful in treating anxiety, insomnia, seizures, and muscle spasms.

PRESCRIPTION: yes

GENERIC AVAILABLE: yes

PREPARATIONS: Tablets (2mg, 5mg, 10mg).

STORAGE: Diazepam should be stored at room temperature in a tightly closed container.

PRESCRIBED FOR: Diazepam is used for the short-term relief of symptoms related to anxiety disorders. Diazepam is also used for the treatment of agitation, tremors, delirium, seizures, and hallucinations as a result of alcohol withdrawal. Diazepam is also used for relief of muscle spasms in certain neurological diseases. Diazepam is used to abort active seizures and can be combined with other drugs in treating severe recurrent seizures.

DOSING: Diazepam may be taken with or without food. Diazepam is metabolized by the liver and excreted mainly by the kidney. Dosages of diazepam may need to be lowered in patients with abnormal kidney function.

DRUG INTERACTIONS: Alcohol should be avoided by patients taking benzodiazepines. Diazepam can lead to addiction (dependency), especially at higher dosages over prolonged periods of time. Because of diazepam's addicting potential, dosages should never be increased by the patient. In patients addicted to diazepam, abrupt discontinuation of the medicine can lead to symptoms of withdrawal (insomnia, headaches, nausea, vomiting, lightheadedness, sweating, anxiety, and fatigue). Seizures can occur in more severe cases of withdrawal. Consequently, patients on diazepam for extended periods of time should slowly taper the medication under a doctor's supervision rather than abruptly stopping the medication. Tagamet can prolong the effects of diazepam and dosages may need to be decreased when these drugs are used together.

SIDE EFFECTS: The most frequent side effects of diazepam are drowsiness, fatigue, and ataxia (loss of balance). Rarely, diazepam causes a paradoxical reaction with excitability, muscle spasm, lack of sleep, and rage. Confusion, depression, speech problems, and double vision are also rare side effects of diazepam.

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 09:22 AM

ok mes explain to me in detail what ur subconscious is please without doing a search on it in ur own words.

jason i couldnt of put it better bout the weak minded myself keep up the good work bro

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by The Original Jason

lol, lets have a debate with reason please, not just "i am right and thats it" addiction is medically recognised as a disease, weak mindedness has absolutely nothing to do with it, I can tell you for free, from experience, I am about the strongest minded person I know, and I am an addict in recovery, and continue to work with addicts on a daily basis for the last 10 years, so i think I have a little room to talk.

peace

btw, you tell me when you are an addictive person, does your body know the difference between a prescibed valium and a bought on the street valium?

i dont think so

so in any case, i see valium as a rec drug as my body doesnt know the difference and reacts in the same way to it, im not suggesting people in pain or who have a dire medical need for it dont take it, only to be aware that for someone like me, its a dangerous scenario

I concede on the addiction, but my doctor prescribed for muscle spasms and they went away. I keep asking about the subconscious because I do not see how in the world it can effect the subconscious.

***the original jason*** · 12-01-2004, 09:29 AM

I would say it plays on ur subconscious as for me, if i take any mind altering substance, my body reacts in a certain way, i want more and more and more and more, however its not like a conscious thing at first, that comes later...just I end up in places where there would be more and more of that particular chemical and so on, I know ill just pop round and see (mr x) who happens to be the drug dealer, but your head(conscious) tells you your just popping in to say hi, then inevitably..into the viscous circles of addiction. Now you might say that about weak mindedness however addiction is the only disease that tells you you havent got it! There is no single way to stop or be cured from it, it can be arrested and you live with it, clean, however you never get rid of it, millions of people worldwide recovering from crack and heroin addiction cant be wrong and your right can they? lol lets have it right bro

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

I concede on the addiction, but my doctor prescribed for muscle spasms and they went away. I keep asking about the subconscious because I do not see how in the world it can effect the subconscious.

diazepam causes a paradoxical reaction with excitability..
mate this means it can cause an oppisote effect to what its suppose to do so another words if its used fro depression or evn anxiety this gets people thinking.. and with the effects of the drug can stumble on things that there subconscious has stored awaty maybe for good reaason

***the original jason*** · 12-01-2004, 09:33 AM

very simple, physical/mental addiction your head will tell you now need valium to stop muscle spasms, when you dont have it, you will think you NEED it, however taking valium for muscle spasms is like taking morphine for a headache, overkill. most people on these boards has some sort of personality disorder, food disorder, addiction, body self image issues of some sort, so all the above is possible for any of us.

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by The Original Jason

I would say it plays on ur subconscious as for me, if i take any mind altering substance, my body reacts in a certain way, i want more and more and more and more, however its not like a conscious thing at first, that comes later...just I end up in places where there would be more and more of that particular chemical and so on, I know ill just pop round and see (mr x) who happens to be the drug dealer, but your head(conscious) tells you your just popping in to say hi, then inevitably..into the viscous circles of addiction. Now you might say that about weak mindedness however addiction is the only disease that tells you you havent got it! There is no single way to stop or be cured from it, it can be arrested and you live with it, clean, however you never get rid of it, millions of people worldwide recovering from crack and heroin addiction cant be wrong and your right can they? lol lets have it right bro

..

"and yet I know ill just pop round and see (mr x) who happens to be the drug dealer, but your head(conscious) tells you your just popping in to say hi, then inevitably..into the viscous circles of addiction" you have just pointed out another use of ur subconscious in this matter.
good luck in the future with the addiction as im sure u are a role model to many others at this stage with the power to suppress ur addiction

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 09:36 AM

are we talking heroin and crack? Read homer8's statement about subconscious mind and all the messed up things(related to prescribed valium for spasms). this is what i contest.

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Homer 8

diazepam causes a paradoxical reaction with excitability..
mate this means it can cause an oppisote effect to what its suppose to do so another words if its used fro depression or evn anxiety this gets people thinking.. and with the effects of the drug can stumble on things that there subconscious has stored awaty maybe for good reaason

mes for real study about all the subconscious and what effects diff things have on it from drugs to social setting to family to abuse the list is endless everything has an effect on it

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Homer 8

diazepam causes a paradoxical reaction with excitability..
mate this means it can cause an oppisote effect to what its suppose to do so another words if its used fro depression or evn anxiety this gets people thinking.. and with the effects of the drug can stumble on things that there subconscious has stored awaty maybe for good reaason

mes for real study about all the subconscious and what effects diff things have on it from drugs to social setting to family to abuse the list is endless everything has an effect on it

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 09:45 AM

Homer8 for as educated as you say you are, you should be able to explain this, as I am baffled that I cannot find one single thing about valium effecting the subconscious. Again, you have had four years to prepare for a debate of this type yet you do not substanciate you statement.

***the original jason*** · 12-01-2004, 09:49 AM

sorry mes, as many big words as you fire out, there is no exchange for real life experience, same reason 99% of all professionals cannot help an addict get clean, however there are self help groups free all round the world in every city helping people get clean and stay clean every day. Valium defo has some effects on your mind/subconscious and it effects everyone in different ways, same things i always say about juice when people ask about it, its personal, everyone is effected in different ways, even though the drug may bind to same receptors and or affect us in similar ways, everyone is gonna have slightly different reactions to everything. Valium may trigger something for homer that it doesnt for you, how can you tell it doesnt?

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-01-2004, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by The Original Jason

Valium may trigger something for homer that it doesnt for you, how can you tell it doesnt?

If this is his stance, cool. I will live with it effects homers subconscious by his experiences with that drug.

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 10:09 AM

ok here we go then lets get into it..
you agree ur mind is made up of the conscious and subconscious.
ur subconscious is more over powering than ur conscious this is called the law of conflict..
ok there are four state of mind beata alpha theata and the delta
beata state is the one we use most in everyday life while we are awake (conscious) ok are u still with me. when our brain waves slow we enter the alpha atate. in this state our brain waves slow down and it opens up the door to our subconscious..
after alpha we enter the dream state this is where we gather all our information which our sub has stored..
ok so we agree valium is a seditaive.
and a seditave slows down our brain waves. so if ur in a normal state of mind (beata) and we use a seditave it slows down the brain to alpha which is not normal unless we are going to sleep in turn this gives u more of a chance to explore ur sub and all ur supressed memorys may become repressed.. i hop i have explained it for you

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 10:12 AM

sorry to get all technical and stuff but i think i have explained myself and if you still feel the same way i can keep going

**TestTubeBaby** · 12-01-2004, 10:20 AM

im not trying to downplay anything here but...its a valium! who cares!? my boy had trouble sleeping, took valium for a couple months, got off em, doesnt have trouble sleeping...no side effects..valium is no worse than weed or alcohol, unless ur a psycho, in which case, you should prob smoke alot to calm that ass down!

**Homer 8** · 12-01-2004, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by TestTubeBaby

im not trying to downplay anything here but...its a valium! who cares!? my boy had trouble sleeping, took valium for a couple months, got off em, doesnt have trouble sleeping...no side effects..valium is no worse than weed or alcohol, unless ur a psycho, in which case, you should prob smoke alot to calm that ass down!

u can not be for real coming out with a statment like that no worse than weed or alchol i suppose there good for you are they

***the original jason*** · 12-01-2004, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by TestTubeBaby
im not trying to downplay anything here but...its a valium! who cares!? my boy had trouble sleeping, took valium for a couple months, got off em, doesnt have trouble sleeping...no side effects..valium is no worse than weed or alcohol, unless ur a psycho, in which case, you should prob smoke alot to calm that ass down!

typical comments from someone who doesnt have a clue

**Jackman** · 12-01-2004, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by The Original Jason

typical comments from someone who doesnt have a clue

hey give him a break hes a test tube baby

**kman** · 12-01-2004, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by The Original Jason

I also get bad jaw cramps and i get cramp everywhere else, its a nightmare, i have found the only thing that works in quinine sulphate in tablet form not sure where you can buy it, buts absolutely spot on for me, none of the other 'suggested' methods do anything for me

peace

Quinine sulphate is top of the line for muscle cramps, get your doc to write you a script for it, it is not an OTC drug, but works miracle, btw valium blows..