cycling without test

**juiceinthehood** · 12-09-2004, 10:30 AM

i have noticed one of the main reasons people use test in their cycles is because your natural test shuts down so people cycle with test to replace their natural production (from what ppl. on this board have said). now if you were not to use test in a cycle then its considered a bad cycle to most, so if replacing your natural test from shutdown is why ur cycling with test, would it not be the same if u did not use test in a cycle but used hcg thrugh out cycle to keep your natural test levels up while using compounds other than test. i ask bcuz i know a few guys that dont like test they cycle deca and primo, winni and dbol etc. so if someone were to do a cycle like deca and primo and ran hcg through out the cycle they would not shut down would they. i would to have some serious comments on this not just 1 liners
personally test gives me bad acne everytime, now years ago i did just deca cycles where i got big and had no acne, virtually no sides when im using test i blow up i get major acne on delts and back. again serious answers on this please if i dont have to use test i wont.

**daem** · 12-09-2004, 10:40 AM

For pure synergistic reasons, i would never run any compound without Test at at least 1.25 times the other compound dosage, IE. 1g EQ/EW and 1.2g Test.

The test allows for greater gains not only from increased protein synthesis, but the potential increase of the 'satellite' cells that are not used. You can activate these new cells and stimulate new growth by running Test depending on what your genetics are.

I always get a slight amount of acne when I run more than 1g, but it is never bad. I have some friends that can't run 500mg without breaking out like they were still in high school.

As far as your question about the HCG , I don't think it would be as beneficial as the test for long term gains. Deca is in a league of it's own for shutting the body's natural Test down, and for this reason I have never ran it.

HCG should be used to complement a cycle to help with Recovery and not prevention. Coming off of a cycle like those by using HCG in conjunction with Test and another anti will be much easier to stabilize natural levels after you are done with the synthetics.

Good hypothesis, but I just wouldn't do it.

As far as the acne is concerned, go to the Spa forum and look around for the ways that people deal with acne. B6 is supposed to help I believe...Many different things people have tried to prevent it.

Good luck bro, and good question.

**juiceinthehood** · 12-09-2004, 10:49 AM

thanx bro just something i started to think about

**juiceinthehood** · 12-09-2004, 11:01 AM

bump

**fitnessNY** · 12-09-2004, 11:04 AM

It is not a cycle without test -- you need it.

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-09-2004, 11:12 AM

I back the test, but in all fairness I have done an EQ only cylce and it wasn't bad. I think to gain more quicker you have to have androgenic compound. anyhow, I did not get shut down that bad, nuts shrank, but clomid only they bounced right back(did tribulus too).

**juiceinthehood** · 12-09-2004, 11:21 AM

i was also wondering why if its so bad to do non-test cycles they did it back in the 80's and early 90,s so much i have read that dbol and primo was one arnolds favorite stacks

**ALEXANDER42** · 12-09-2004, 11:27 AM

I have the same problem with test so instead of abandoning it all together I will lower the dose. If I start to break out then I lay off the Test until it starts to calms down a bit. Dont give up on Test all together. Some is better than none. Tanning helps me. AS for hcg during cycle I dont think it is a good idea. I have read that excessive use
of hcg canshut down your pituitaries natural hormone signaling capabilities and shut down your own bodies Test production. In essence your body becomes dependant on the HCG and you will have to continue taking it to produce Test.

**juiceinthehood** · 12-09-2004, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by ALEXANDER42

I have the same problem with test so instead of abandoning it all together I will lower the dose. If I start to break out then I lay off the Test until it starts to calms down a bit. Dont give up on Test all together. Some is better than none. Tanning helps me. AS for hcg during cycle I dont think it is a good idea. I have read that excessive use
of hcg canshut down your pituitaries natural hormone signaling capabilities and shut down your own bodies Test production. In essence your body becomes dependant on the HCG and you will have to continue taking it to produce Test.

not in small spread out dosages

***BajanBastard*** · 12-09-2004, 11:30 AM

Forget all the excellent points deam posted for one sec. Lets go back to a very basic point of why test is added to cycles...........TEST IS CHEAP AND IT WORKS GREAT!..............simple huh?

**juiceinthehood** · 12-09-2004, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by big k.l.g

Forget all the excellent points deam posted for one sec. Lets go back to a very basic point of why test is added to cycles...........TEST IS CHEAP AND IT WORKS GREAT!..............simple huh?

how long did it take to come up with this answer

**Dimes** · 12-09-2004, 12:36 PM

I love test, but if you dont like it, you can run other cycles and deal with the sides, alot of people dont use test.good luck.

**juiceinthehood** · 12-09-2004, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dimes

I love test, but if you dont like it, you can run other cycles and deal with the sides, alot of people dont use test.good luck.

thanx bro

***BajanBastard*** · 12-09-2004, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Dimes

I love test, but if you dont like it, you can run other cycles and deal with the sides, alot of people dont use test.good luck.

Shouldn’t you be on the toilet?

**The Baron** · 12-09-2004, 12:52 PM

Daem's post is a good one. Also, it is a no-brainer... when sides are intolerable, lower the dose. I wouldn't drop the test altogether. The rule of thumb, backed up by countless users' experiences, is to do a bit more test than deca or other lightly androgenic drugs. But, I think if the sides from the test are just too bad, you could probably get away with reducing the test even down to half, but you need to as a minimum at least replace your lost endogenous production.

One big reason to stick with the test... you will train a lot harder in a hyper androgenic condition. If you don't train intensely enough, body composition will suffer. No amount of hcg will give you that "ooh-rah!" feeling of confidence and determination in the gym, or that feeling of power that says "THAT was my personal best? that ain't sheeet!"

The androgenic and anabolic sides of a good stack together far exceed the sum of their effects used alone. That is what synergy is all about. Each reinforces and enhances the other.

Try other solutions to your acne, maybe? Retin-A? OTC stuff applied by your GF or TP to your back and shoulders? The worst of it should only last 4-5 weeks in a 10 week cycle.

**d.b** · 12-09-2004, 12:57 PM

I never broke out with test...more than likely its the ester in the test that is making you break out...Test is the Foundation of any cycle...without it you something that will fall appart...JMHO...

peace

db

**Mesomorphyl** · 12-09-2004, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by big k.l.g

Shouldn’t you be on the toilet?

sayin that sh1t, no pun intended, to dimes makes me think I am not the only smartass on this board.

**juiceinthehood** · 12-09-2004, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by The Baron

Daem's post is a good one. Also, it is a no-brainer... when sides are intolerable, lower the dose. I wouldn't drop the test altogether. The rule of thumb, backed up by countless users' experiences, is to do a bit more test than deca or other lightly androgenic drugs. But, I think if the sides from the test are just too bad, you could probably get away with reducing the test even down to half, but you need to as a minimum at least replace your lost endogenous production.

One big reason to stick with the test... you will train a lot harder in a hyper androgenic condition. If you don't train intensely enough, body composition will suffer. No amount of hcg will give you that "ooh-rah!" feeling of confidence and determination in the gym, or that feeling of power that says "THAT was my personal best? that ain't sheeet!"

The androgenic and anabolic sides of a good stack together far exceed the sum of their effects used alone. That is what synergy is all about. Each reinforces and enhances the other.

Try other solutions to your acne, maybe? Retin-A? OTC stuff applied by your GF or TP to your back and shoulders? The worst of it should only last 4-5 weeks in a 10 week cycle.

i finished a test e , eq, winni cycle in april of 2003 and i am still getting acne on my back and delts

**Dimes** · 12-09-2004, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

sayin that sh1t, no pun intended, to dimes makes me think I am not the only smartass on this board.

LOL, He was saying that because I am having crapping problems...aka bad diarreah, posted it a couple of days ago, it is getting better, althought I have had to lower my food intake a little bit.

***BajanBastard*** · 12-09-2004, 01:39 PM

Good to hear you are feeling better Dimes.

**Dimes** · 12-09-2004, 01:44 PM

Thanks man, and Meso, my comment kicked ass, you just jealous

**Deeno** · 12-09-2004, 03:02 PM

Hey bro, do different esters cause more/less break outs? The reason I ask this is because I am somewhat predispositioned to acne, even without any gear. Thanks.

Originally Posted by d.b

I never broke out with test...more than likely its the ester in the test that is making you break out...Test is the Foundation of any cycle...without it you something that will fall appart...JMHO...

peace

db

**Duma** · 12-09-2004, 03:15 PM

this may be a dumb question but wouldnt taking test make it more brutal once u STOP youre cycle as opposed to not having taken it (even though during cycle you'd be fine)?--btw question regards shutdown

**d.b** · 12-09-2004, 03:16 PM

Deeno if you are prone to breaking out i would stay clear of the longer esters...and stick with CLEAN prop...fyi...I filter all my gear...

peace

db

**Deeno** · 12-09-2004, 04:26 PM

Thanks DB, That's what I thought
I'll be running a prop only within the next month or so.

**Zennie** · 12-09-2004, 07:08 PM

I have used sus, dbol , deca , eq, halo, vars, etc......

Agree that test makes you feel great, etc. However, I didn't want to use test since I laid off working out for 4 years. Made a come back, trained for 2 months, then hit 400mg of deca/week for 10 weeks. Threw in winny in the front, and threw in anavars at only 25mg/day. It has been 3 weeks since my last deca shot.

During the deca only time, I did feel a bit low and sometimes I worried about the Deca Dick, but thinking back, I didn't have any problems although it wasn't 100%. More like perpendicular rather than pointing up! I think it is very subjective. Some people can't handle a bit of hormonal changes and go crazy, whereas some find it bearable without test. But after 2 weeks going off the deca and on vars, I noticed that I feel a lot better. Feel quite normal, but even at 25mg, my strength went up the roof without the deca but adding the Vars only. So, all those "NO TEST NO CYCLE" crap is just so BS. It is people following what others have said, and just because test makes you feel like you're KING, people tend to favour it. No one dares to say test is no good, they just avoid it due to certain sides they may not like or avoid it because it is an injectable. Bottom line is, I think you can still take other stuff without test. It is whether how your body reacts to it having little test in your blood. To me, it's just fine! I feel better without feeling horny all day and end up wasting money looking for a whore since it is impossible to get laid for free everyday...maybe once a week, not everyday! And it is even sadder to have to jerk off all the time cos you're on test!

**TheMindOfRoss** · 05-18-2005, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Zennie

I have used sus, dbol , deca , eq, halo, vars, etc......

Agree that test makes you feel great, etc. However, I didn't want to use test since I laid off working out for 4 years. Made a come back, trained for 2 months, then hit 400mg of deca/week for 10 weeks. Threw in winny in the front, and threw in anavars at only 25mg/day. It has been 3 weeks since my last deca shot.

During the deca only time, I did feel a bit low and sometimes I worried about the Deca Dick, but thinking back, I didn't have any problems although it wasn't 100%. More like perpendicular rather than pointing up! I think it is very subjective. Some people can't handle a bit of hormonal changes and go crazy, whereas some find it bearable without test. But after 2 weeks going off the deca and on vars, I noticed that I feel a lot better. Feel quite normal, but even at 25mg, my strength went up the roof without the deca but adding the Vars only. So, all those "NO TEST NO CYCLE" crap is just so BS. It is people following what others have said, and just because test makes you feel like you're KING, people tend to favour it. No one dares to say test is no good, they just avoid it due to certain sides they may not like or avoid it because it is an injectable. Bottom line is, I think you can still take other stuff without test. It is whether how your body reacts to it having little test in your blood. To me, it's just fine! I feel better without feeling horny all day and end up wasting money looking for a whore since it is impossible to get laid for free everyday...maybe once a week, not everyday! And it is even sadder to have to jerk off all the time cos you're on test!

AMEN...see my thread: "Why NOT to use TEST in EVERY cycle"