What should I jump start with?

[Two4the$$]

Okay, this is definitely going to attract some "heat" from you guys, but basically, I've been on my gear going in to week 3 (15 days) and still nothing. I know that EQ and Enanthate take a while to kick in, but it's not like that reduces the down time of my nuts. Do the other tests start working faster? Or is it roughly the same ****? I just don't want to be shut down for periods of time without gains... I guess I was more under the impression that it worked s l o w l y in the beginning, but then started working full force around week 5. Shut down for another 3 weeks and no gains to show for it? That doesn't make sense... or does it?


Okay, my stats and cycle, again!

Weeks 1 - 13 Test-E 500 mg (2 x 250 mg)

Weeks 1 - 12 EQ 500 mg (2 x 200 mg)


6-3 @ 195, 31 y.o., First cycle, eating pretty well, working out well.

[XxElitexX]

Weeks 1 - 12 EQ 500 mg (2 x 200 mg)

2 x 200 is 400. Your gear could be bunk. Whats your diet like?

[XxElitexX]

so what is it 400 or 500mg of EQ?

[ChefJ]

I would use 600mgs of eq and 750 of the test. wait about 2 more weeks and you should be seeing some results from both. Test is test is test its the ester that makes the difference and it sounds like you should have ran prop for quicker results.

[Two4the$$]

My gears definitely not bunk, my nuts feel that slight ache of atrophy. A slight typo was made, its 400mg per week of EQ, my diet is adequate for gains, I'm certain of it. I understand that the active ingredient in ALL test products is Test, and that is why they call it test. :-) My question is, do other types of test take this long to start affecting you? My blood plasma levels have had between 50-60mg a week of test in them for 15 days ... do all "test" products take as long as enanthate to start showing affects? I'm okay with upping the dose, but do I reduce it back once it starts working? And if so, will it CONTINUE working for sure?

Thanks

[ChefJ]

The propionate ester kicks in after about 4 days.

[Two4the$$]

Also, I have had only <slight> acne, and have had zero water retention, but I am also taking Tomaxafin at 20mg per day. I REALLY don't want gyno...

[Booz]

takes around 4 weeks for test 2 kick in on me eq a bit longer

[XxElitexX]

do other types of test take this long to start affecting you?

Prop is a shorter ester...it hits faster.

[QUOTE]but do I reduce it back once it starts working? And if so, will it CONTINUE working for sure?[QUOTE]

No, dont reduce the doses back down. Keep blood levels as steady as possible.

I dont completely agree with Chef on upping the dose.....With those doses he should be able to yield great results, especially for a 1st cycle. JMO.

[Two4the$$]

Adding more mg of the slow acting ester would speed up the time to kick in? Interesting. I would think that adding a faster ester for a little while would help, but, can you discontinue something like Prop once the Enanthate starts working? And how would I know when it starts working to discontinue the prop?

[Two4the$$]

Is it possible that by using the Tamoxafin that I am blocking the test from working? I have heard that Arimadex will inhibit the efficacy of AAS, but haven't heard the same of Tamoxafin.

Thanks

[YounG_SluG11]

Is it possible that by using the Tamoxafin that I am blocking the test from working? I have heard that Arimadex will inhibit the efficacy of AAS, but haven't heard the same of Tamoxafin.

Thanks

No, it won't hinder gains in any way.

[Two4the$$]

Morning Young Slug... I've hear that other Anti-E's may have some good hidden values... Any opinion or familiarity with that? Such as Proviron being mildly anabolic ? Or that it reduces DHT, but are these actions/benefits at the expense of affective estrogen-action blocking? And Clomid may reduce hypogonadism (supposedly) if taken during a cycle... And then of course, there's Cytadren , which inhibits coritisol production. Ha, this **** is SO ****ing confusing to make "best" choices with. We need to get this **** legalized so pharmacuetical companies can do this research for us... or maybe just find those Russian medical journals of the athletes results, I hear they are really comprehensive.

[AnabolBoy]

run Anadrol for 4 weeks.at 50 mg a day.

[Two4the$$]

Holy **** dude, you sure didn't pick a mild one, did you... Anyway, I appreciate the advice, however, I'm not looking to **** my liver. Perhaps a more modest suggestion.

Regards

[Two4the$$]

What do you guys think about adding some Prop to the equation? But FYI, if I do add it, I intend to subtract it when the Test-E starts working, as I really don't want to go much over the current dose I'm at. Also, is 400mg a week of EQ just too low to do anything? Seems like 600mg gets a lot of praise from the members here... but wouldn't that mean that I'd have to up the test too?

Current plan:

500mg Test-E - weeks 1-13
400mg EQ - weeks 1-12

THIS IS MY FIRST CYCLE! :-)

thanks all!

[YounG_SluG11]

You won't have to up the Test if you go 600mg with the EQ. The main reason people say to run Test higher than other compounds is so you won't get shutdown as bad. However, that seems like a myth to me as I have never had any problems with it. The only thing you should really run Test higher than is Deca IMO.

Good luck with the cycle, and make sure to post your results.

[twigbolt]

If this is your 1st cycle then I would not up the test to 750mg/wk

I'd get some prop and throw it in for 3 wks and then your levels will be steady and you will be ready to grow like a weed.

Good luck bro

~Twig

[Glock-19]

Sus and Prop kick in fast.

[Bryan2]

my vote is for some orals if you have access to dbol that will put the most weight on you the quickest next to anadrol but ive never done anadrol so I cant comment on that.

If you want dryer gains then try to get some Turinabol it will add + or - 5-10 pounds of lbm in 3-4 weeks

[palme]

Prop or dbol for kickstart and prop for 3 weeks after your enth/eq just before you start your pct.

[Two4the$$]

Thanks Young_Slug, Twig, Palme for your attention on this. I've been waiting for you guys on this thread... :-)

Okay, should I add that immediately? I'm on day 23. If so, for how long should I add the proprionate for and at what dose? Run the EQ at 600mg per week? how about 500? is that an equal option?

Thanks,

Truman

[palme]

The gear should kick in soon so maybe you should keep the prop till w14-w16 50mg eod then 3 days after last prop injection you start your pct.

EQ is a weak steroid , 500mg or 600mg wont make much differnce imo. Continue the dose your on.

[judge_dread]

Go with Dianabol or Anapolon (supp with LIV52 or Milk Thistle for liver protection) Oh and do some research..u sound so confused!

[v-force700]

Hey bro. Being your first cycle you are good to go with the MG's you are doing. I always through in prop at the beginning of an Enanthate or Cyp cycle for 3-4 weeks. I will even through in some mid cycle if I feel a need for a boost! Then the last two weeks drop the Enanthate and EQ and go Prop only. Makes for a better recovery, and you can start PCT 3 days after last inj. insted of 2 weeks with Enanthate.

You are at week 3, so it would be fine to add some prop till you feel the Enanthate kick in good. Then it will be OK to drop the Prop.
Hope this helps <<<V>>>

[scottythebody]

Just be patient. Give it another 2-3 weeks

[Jase]

ChefJ has it did on the nail, go with him he knows what he is talking about, dont be scared of the quantity , the idea is to "shock" your system into an Anaabolic state, good luck mate

God speed

[The Baron]

You are already in week 3? Just run 50mg prop EOD, maybe front load with 100mg the first day, and taper down at the end of week 4. Or try 35 or 40mg dbol ED, and taper off at the end of week 4. It won't make a lot of difference at this stage... should have jump started your cycle at the beginning, not in the 3rd week. A lot of users don't bother with a jump start and they do fine, but if you do it, do it right. And if it will take more than a few days to get your gear, don't even bother, because then you will be almost in week 4 already.

[Two4the$$]

Well, I will be patient regarding the Prop, in fact, I had already resolved to that last week when the overwhelming response was to do that because even the prop wouldn't kick in fast enough to pick up the lag time between here and when the Test-E kicks in. HOWEVER! I would DEFINITELY be okay with upping the EQ element of this stack. Anyone here (with a REASON) disagree with running the EQ @ 600mg per week? Also, does the Test-E dosage have to change? I'm biased to accept Young_Slugs belief on this subject... as it doesn't seem to REQUIRE higher Test than EQ levels... but perhaps someone else has better info. Thanks all! :-)

[The Baron]

The tired old rule of thumb with such a stack is to keep the test significantly higher than the other element, be it deca , eq, whatever. But I would probably not raise the eq dose anyway, unless you have a whole bunch of cycles under your belt. 400mg or so is fine for intermediate users I think.

[Two4the$$]

Okay Baron, I respect your opinion, any other comments on the EQ situation?

[v-force700]

I would use 600mgs of eq and 750 of the test. wait about 2 more weeks and you should be seeing some results from both. Test is test is test its the ester that makes the difference and it sounds like you should have ran prop for quicker results.

For your first cycle You should never do this much test. Maybe Chefj didn't see it was your first cycle. But I would never advise anyone on their first cycle to do 750mg of test.!!!!!!
<<<V>>>

[v-force700]

The propionate ester kicks in after about 4 days.

Wrong!!!!