milk thistle Hinder Gains?

**D00fy** · 04-10-2002, 02:58 PM

i read a few threads on elite how everyone hates milk thistle ,but since many people here supplement with milk thistle on there cycle without ALA whats your opinion did it hinder your gains?

what do you think of LIV52 from organon?

**D00fy** · 04-10-2002, 03:16 PM

"Liver Helper Myth Destroyed
Ok, I'm seeing more and more people using Milk thistle.

Well, guess what?

IT DOES NOTHING.

Even plain water is better than Milk Thistle.

So, STOP throwing your money away.

It won't even stem the tide, the liver will still
be bombarded by the 17-aa steroid molecule.
It doesn't even affect liver protection or
regeneration.
I'm not kidding here. Milk thistle won't do a thing.
So, if you use it alone with 17-aa's, you're more
than likely to get high liver enzyme values or WORSE
if using hepatoxic 17-aa's like Anadrol /Halo/winstrol
etc.....

These THREE are the ONLY ONES worth taking. PERIOD.

1. ALA at 600mg/day. THIS IS THE BEST. BAR NONE.

2. Tylers liver detox: Because it includes 3-4 substances
that would cost a fortune to buy by themselves. Not to
mention complicate matters b/c of availibility.(You'd
have to buy from several places at once)

3. Cranberry extract: NOT FOR THE LIVER. but
for the KIDNEYS. ALA and Tylers have little impact
on the kidneys. Cranberry however does.
Dosage: 3000mgs/day

4.(Up and coming) Calcium D-Glucarate: USED AFTER THE
CYCLE.(Some people use it during their cycle but
wether its effective or not is highly debatable).
This a relatively complicated substance to use and
needs to be researched before taking it.
Hard to find too.(Hence the up and coming denotation)

There are other more exotic ones for the liver but are EXPENSIVE
and I think irrelevant because ALA does everything they do.(And
more)

So, to finish up. possible combo's:

1. If price is an issue: ALA+cranberry
2. If not: ALA+Tylers+cranberry.

The reasson I picked ALA over tylers is while they both
protect the liver, ALA has MANY MORE benefits than
Tylers. Including, amazing anti-oxidant power,
increased glucose up-take, incresased oxygen up-take
by the heart etc.. etc..
It also RE-GENERATES damaged liver hepatocytes which
Tylers does NOT do.

These are the only effective ones. The rest I'd flush down
the toilet.
Remember, its your liver. Don't take any chances with
mythical rumours imparted years ago that just hapenned to
brainwash people and made them think that a substance was
actually effective when it really wasn't

The only AAS that Milk thistle would even have an impact on
would be Anavar . And that would be pushing it IMHO.

Fonz
"

what do you guys think? i really want to protect my liver but ALA is expensive,

**Dizzy** · 04-10-2002, 03:24 PM

that is exactly why i started using ala. also for it's insulin mimicking properties. at 3000mg it is supposed to work wonders. also a good supplement for acne. if anyone wants to know where to get some cheap ala...shoot me a pm.

**ironfist** · 04-10-2002, 03:32 PM

Taking milk thislte will not hinder your gains...Whether or not it works is another story...

**D00fy** · 04-10-2002, 03:38 PM

sweet

**Tedmax195** · 04-10-2002, 05:47 PM

Guys whats ala
Just curious

**Dizzy** · 04-10-2002, 06:16 PM

By Yousry Naguib, PhD
Alpha-lipoic acid is a versatile antioxidant. It quenches a variety of free radicals and helps to recycle other antioxidants such as vitamins C and E, and glutathione. Alpha-lipoic acid has been shown to reduce symptoms of neuropathy, prevent diabetic retinopathy, and lower blood glucose levels in diabetics. ALA may also be useful in the treatment of ischemia/reperfusion injury and cellular oxidative stress.

**Tedmax195** · 04-10-2002, 07:14 PM

Thanks for taking the time dizzy.

**Brutus The Buckeye** · 04-10-2002, 09:01 PM

I've seen many studies that state that milk thistle not only aids the liver in detoxifying, but it also helps regenerate cells. I researched this long before doing AS and saw many positive studies. In fact, i have a friend who has Hep c and has gotten his enzymes in to the normal range since starting milk thistle. Even interferon tx did not do this for him.

**ripped_82** · 04-10-2002, 09:16 PM

The dried fruit of milk thistle contain a flavonoid complex known as silymarin. This constituent is responsible for the medical benefits of the plant.1 Silymarin is made up of three parts: silibinin, silidianin, and silicristin. Silibinin is the most active and is largely responsible for the benefits attributed to silymarin.2

Milk thistle extract may protect the cells of the liver by blocking the entrance of harmful toxins and helping remove these toxins from the liver cells.3 4 As with other bioflavonoids, silymarin is a powerful antioxidant.5 Silymarin has also been shown to regenerate injured liver cells.6 Recent studies have shown that silymarin has the ability to block fibrosis, a process that contributes to the eventual development of cirrhosis in people with inflammatory liver conditions secondary to diseases such as alcohol abuse or hepatitis.7

Milk thistle extract is most commonly recommended to counteract the harmful actions of alcohol on the liver. Double-blind trials indicate that it helps the liver return to a healthy state once a person stops drinking.8 9 Some trials suggest it may improve quality of life and even life expectancy in people with liver cirrhosis.10 11 However, another trial found no effect in cirrhosis patients.12 Milk thistle alters bile makeup, thereby potentially reducing risk of gallstones.13 However, this needs to be verified by human clinical trials. Milk thistle extract has been shown to protect the liver from the potentially damaging effect of drugs used to treat schizophrenia and other forms of psychosis.14 However, one trial found that it did not protect the liver from the potentially harmful effects of the drug Cognex (tacrine hydrochloride) used to treat early-stage Alzheimer’s disease.

**Dizzy** · 04-10-2002, 09:23 PM

like stated above. when taking 17aa milk thistle doesn't do a thing. ala is not only the best antioxidant...ALA is also a nutrient partitioning agent at roughly 3000mg/day.

thanks to fonz from elite for the info.

ala increases the amount of glut-4 transporters on the out-side of the miocytes considerably. This effect gives the muscle-cells the ability to soak up more glucose from the blood-stream. In essence, you have increased the amount of glycogen your muscles can store.

by just adding ALA to a meal you have diverted more nutrients into your muscle cells than into your fat cells. This is what a nutrient-partitioning agent does. The net result is an increased muscle-gain over the long-run with a smaller fat-gain.