best mass building stack?

**BlInDsIdE** · 06-28-2005, 01:03 PM

i'm gonna have to go with drol or dbol , test e, deca stack

**The Baron** · 06-28-2005, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Well, I've done Test-Enanthate ... and definitely prefer less frequent jabs, but once you are shooting ED, there's no sense trying to run long esters if you've got room to use Prop in the 3cc's of space. :-) Baron, GOOD idea waiting a few days inbetween the NPP and the Tren , forgot about that, if not, you'd have a spiked period of Progesterone risks maybe... Something like giving it a week to clear. My idea was to run the NPP and the DBol in a manner that allows the anti catabolic affect to be inccurred DURING the anabolic affect of the NPP... so when the Diana ends, I'm okay with discontinuing the NPP... or running it until a week before I switch over to the tren. I'm a pussy I guess, so I'm not looking to go crazy on the Diana, I want to keep water to a minimum. Is 30mg of Diana still concervative?

Gotta say, THANKS for the endorsement... particularly like getting it from you!

Actually tho, since the NPP is about an E3D protocol, yeah, I could go with enanthate... I would front load it this time.. Would you frontload NPP? I need to find out where I can get to hookers profiles and what the PW is... But yeah, I'll need to look at the half life's of those closely.

Would Arimidex keep the water gains to a minimum? I don't hold much water on Test, I was doing up to 700mg per week during my last cycle, didn't gain a pound of water. I wouldn't expect that to be possible on DBol, but, with good acillaries, maybe something similar. I hate the idea of gaining a bunch of bloat. I don't want to be known as an AAS user...

Thoughts?

Yeah 30mg is still pretty conservative I would say. I usually run 50mg as a matter of course.

I would be leery of frontloading any AAS other than test. But that's me.

Arimidex would indeed help to keep the water down, but I would lean toward nolva for the other benefits. It is kind of splitting hairs, though.

DOn't worry about a little bloat, though. You lose it quickly and without any effort. Dress loosely! You will be fine, either way. The water retention can actually help with your workouts, so it's not all bad anyway.

You COULD shoot enanth or cyp ED or EOD... no reason why you couldn't, if you wanted to shoot something else ED anyhow. And shooting 1/2cc of cyp ED or EOD hurts a lot less than shooting 1cc of prop ED, IMO. I have to say, though, that there are advantages to the prop at the beginning and at the end of the cycle, but you can easily transition between one and the other. I like to jumpstart with prop, 100mg/ED first week, then taper down to 75, 50, and stop. I also like to "clean up" at the end with prop but I will be trying either suspension or TNE gel this cycle.

**Two4the$$** · 06-28-2005, 02:00 PM

Agreed with your logic on when to use prop.... but I have to say, I'm going to guinea pig for the sake of saying whether this front load system actually works or not. I'm thinking there shouldn't be ANY lag time... I'l just do 1200mg the first week of Enanthate ... and then 600mg after that. As far as frontloading of NPP, yeah, I'll do MUCH more research, but it's a thought.

I haven't used DBol before, so I will be concervative in my dosing... probably start with 30mg ED.

Why do you lean towards Nolvadex ? Is it that issue that a complete AI might interfere with muscle building?

I will definitely use prop for the last 3-4 weeks... and with ED jabs occurring from the Acetate, no sense in not using short half life to get off quickly and start PCT.

What would you think this cycle could produce in LBM at the 5 month mark when PCT is completed and you've lost all the water...? This will be my second cycle.

**stupidhippo** · 06-28-2005, 02:19 PM

pretty hefty second cycle =) Im on the same bout myself though....

**The Baron** · 06-29-2005, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Agreed with your logic on when to use prop.... but I have to say, I'm going to guinea pig for the sake of saying whether this front load system actually works or not. I'm thinking there shouldn't be ANY lag time... I'l just do 1200mg the first week of Enanthate ... and then 600mg after that. As far as frontloading of NPP, yeah, I'll do MUCH more research, but it's a thought.

I haven't used DBol before, so I will be concervative in my dosing... probably start with 30mg ED.

Why do you lean towards Nolvadex ? Is it that issue that a complete AI might interfere with muscle building?

I will definitely use prop for the last 3-4 weeks... and with ED jabs occurring from the Acetate, no sense in not using short half life to get off quickly and start PCT.

What would you think this cycle could produce in LBM at the 5 month mark when PCT is completed and you've lost all the water...? This will be my second cycle.

30mg is a light dose of dbol but it is enough to do some good. WTF... follow your instincts. More is sometimes better. Sometimes it is NOT better.

The nolvadex has the interesting ability to improve your LDL/HDL ratio. That is the main thing that makes me recommend it over an AI. Like I said, though, it is almost splitting hairs. Other considerations might be more important to you.

Your gains could be mediocre, or they could be phenomenal, depending on your diet. If this is only your second cycle, and you are getting your protein and essential nutrients in sufficient quantity, training with balls-out intensity and getting enough sleep, you will feel like you are big as a house by the end of your cycle. Losses after the end of pct will not be catastrophic. Keep eating and training and resting properly and you will keep a lot of it, and still be well ahead of the game when you are ready for your next cycle. Remember though that growth will probably not be as explosive during the tren phase. I would go with the natural characteristics of the drug, and concentrate on pure mass the first part, then hardening up with the more modest but extremely high quality gains that tren is best known for in the second part. Others will call BS, and say just bulk bulk bulk to the end, but this is the way I think about it.

**hellapimpin** · 06-29-2005, 12:30 AM

dbol 40mg week 1-5
test e 750mg week 1-16
eq 600mg week 1-16
tren 525mg week 10-18

**Two4the$$** · 06-29-2005, 12:53 AM

Whats the dosing range on tren from minimum effective dose, to max NORMAL dose...

And why the EQ over NPP?

Why the Tren at that volume? I might start with 50-60mg ED, then up it slowly as I check my response to the sides...

**hellapimpin** · 06-29-2005, 01:10 AM

how many cycles have you done?

**Two4the$$** · 06-29-2005, 01:56 AM

This'd be my second cycle. And what about the dbol ... I've seen people using 20mg talking about getting good results. I guess I can adjust my dosing based on the sides...

**hellapimpin** · 06-29-2005, 02:32 AM

some people will do well off of 25mg a day...avg is about 30..40 is a nice dose..50 is large to most.

**hellapimpin** · 06-29-2005, 02:33 AM

if this is your 2nd cycle..dont do the cycle i recommended..you can get great results from less then that...lengths of weeks is fine..but dosage should be taken down...maybe like 600 on test e, 400 on eq, 30 on dbol for 4 weeks, and tren at 400 a week.

**Two4the$$** · 06-29-2005, 03:19 AM

DUDE! LOL. Those are the EXACT numbers I was talkin about! lmfao!!!

**Toenail Juice Z** · 06-29-2005, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by topgun1983

any ideas for best mass building stack?

Lean mass builder...You cut towards the end.

2 tabs Proviron throughout cycle
D-Bol 40mg weeks 1-6, or 1/2 A-50's/day
Test E - 1000mg weeks 1-16
Deca /Equipoise - 400mg weeks 1-16
Tren 300mg/week weeks 8-16
Winstrol Depot - 50mg/day weeks 11-16
Clenbuterol - weeks 8-16

Don't do this if it's your 1st cycle..YOu don't need that much.

**Defconx3** · 06-29-2005, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by hellapimpin

dbol 40mg week 1-5
test e 750mg week 1-16
eq 600mg week 1-16
tren 525mg week 10-18

Woah, thats a pretty gnarly-assed cycle.

**Beast_03** · 06-29-2005, 07:41 AM

what about this for my second cycle... looking for mass any of u done this with similar dosages?

DBol 30mg/day week 1-4
Test E 650mg/week week 1-12
Deca 500 mg/week week 1-10

im also running 500iu HCG E4D plus the rest such as nolvaldex and PCT.

how much do u guys think i will gain?

**The Baron** · 06-29-2005, 08:36 AM

Gains are impossible to predetermine. You can only go by your own results from past cycles. You DIET has more effect on total gains than the dosages of AAS you are using. You could go with very conservative doses and if your diet and training are in the groove, you could gain twice as much as you would on a heavy stack with a so-so diet and training program. It would not surprise me if you gained 30 lbs on that cycle. It also would not surprise me if you only gained 5 lbs on it. It is up to you, and has a lot to do with how much protein you can shove down your hole.

The true acid test of diet and training practice is doing it without AAS. When you can make consistent gains without gear and keep making them when lesser mortals would stop making gains, then you know you got your sh!t together. THEN you have a clue or two about what you will have to do to get the best gains from a cycle... just multiply your protein intake by 1.5 and you will then be on the right track. Anybody can make modest gains on a moderate to heavy cycle of AAS. Getting optimum gains is much more difficult and requires dedication and knowledge. Getting "the look" is even harder. Remember, this isn't a size contest... it is all about how you LOOK. Gaining 40 lbs with half of it fat is not nejcessarily as good as gaining only 10 lbs of muscle and losing 15 lbs of fat for a net weight loss. The numbers are just a tool. The proof is in the mirror and in the admiring or envious eyes of others.

**Beast_03** · 06-29-2005, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Baron

Gains are impossible to predetermine. You can only go by your own results from past cycles. You DIET has more effect on total gains than the dosages of AAS you are using. You could go with very conservative doses and if your diet and training are in the groove, you could gain twice as much as you would on a heavy stack with a so-so diet and training program. It would not surprise me if you gained 30 lbs on that cycle. It also would not surprise me if you only gained 5 lbs on it. It is up to you, and has a lot to do with how much protein you can shove down your hole.

The true acid test of diet and training practice is doing it without AAS. When you can make consistent gains without gear and keep making them when lesser mortals would stop making gains, then you know you got your sh!t together. THEN you have a clue or two about what you will have to do to get the best gains from a cycle... just multiply your protein intake by 1.5 and you will then be on the right track. Anybody can make modest gains on a moderate to heavy cycle of AAS. Getting optimum gains is much more difficult and requires dedication and knowledge. Getting "the look" is even harder. Remember, this isn't a size contest... it is all about how you LOOK. Gaining 40 lbs with half of it fat is not nejcessarily as good as gaining only 10 lbs of muscle and losing 15 lbs of fat for a net weight loss. The numbers are just a tool. The proof is in the mirror and in the admiring or envious eyes of others.

Good post man, thx. Ive got my diet in check so yea im hoping to gain something in the range of 20-30 pounds.