My LOW DOSE lenghty cycle UPDATE!! Debate is over for ME

**Trooper5** · 07-12-2005, 11:10 AM

Sorry for the long post, but, this summer i decided to change things up a bit and go for a much lower dosed cycle and keep it going for a longer period of time. Im 23, just under 6'0 and been training eating right for over 4 years. My cycle for this summer was/is as follows:
Weeks 1-10: 250mg wk Test Cyp (Animal Power)
Weeks 1-10: 400mg wk EQ (Syd Group Boldenon)
Weeks 9-12: 20mg ED Anavar (Animal Power 5mg)
Weels 10-14: 50mg ED Winstrol Tabs (BD 10mg)
In the past i have run similar cycles (4) but with around 600mg test a week and i usually always go from my natural weight of 185 and gain to around 210. In my past 3 cycles which are always just through the beginning of the summer months, ive included things from sust, deca , tren , test prop, test enanthate , dbol , eq, primobolan , finaplix . This summer with my cycle i am runnning now (Im in week 13) i went from about 185 to 197 currently. But i look bigger right now at this 197 than i ever did at 210. All the muscle i gained was so lean and hard with no water retention. Im only a week into my winny and almost done with my Vars and i feel myself just getting harder and harder. My diet has been so strict of late too, because im leaving for VEGAS july 20th, so my main goal right now is to just get as lean as possible. Im stronger than i ever was on a higher dosed cycle and my strength in almost ever major exercise is going through the roof. I personally wont ever run a high dose cycle again, but thats just me. Ive never run winny before, but im only like a week in so i know that the gains ive made so far arent from that. Now im hoping the next and last 3 weeks of the winny will take me past the point of the best ive ever looked. IM not a huge guy, but for me its all about getting stronger, better looking than i was, more lean muscle than before, and i know that so far i am. I vowed to myself that after this cycle is over from now on all winter im gonna push myself to my natural limits and see how i can get my body to change the way i want it to naturally, i dont wanna do juice anymore. Not for any particular reason, i just wanna do it naturally and see what i can get out of it. Thanks for listening! hope this post helps people debating on if lower dosed cycles are worth it, i DEF think so.

**nomore1324** · 07-12-2005, 11:34 AM

i agree completely i have run a really low dose cyce before and i gained very very well, i didnt even run it that long just about 10weeks.

**magicstick2003** · 07-12-2005, 12:11 PM

10 weeks isn;t that long though. i run mine 12 weeks..... the thing that seems odd to me is how you are running with no test the last 4 weeks. hey if it works then sweet

**punchrf** · 07-12-2005, 03:59 PM

how long are your shorter cycles? it sounds like you found what works for you so go with what works the best. i would run the test at least 2 weeks longer though. or switch to prop for weeks 10-14. just my 2 cents

**dirtyvegas** · 07-12-2005, 04:06 PM

j/k show us some before and afters..

~dv~

**Jsik98** · 07-12-2005, 04:19 PM

I def agree to the lower dose, longer length concept. That's the way a lot of the pro's cycle inthe off season. (keeping in mind that "low dose" is very relative, especially when we're talking about the pros). Anyway, I just started a deca ,eq,cyp, var cycle a few days ago and plan on going for 12 weeks............(Will def have before and after pics available).....glad to hear the positive info on your cycle. BTW, many people say they don't feel any difference until week 5 or later with the longer esters, but I'll tell ya, I'm already retaining more nitrogen as I'm feeling fuller and harder! (probably from the var, though.)

**cantqwit** · 07-12-2005, 07:02 PM

hey im runnin a test e cycle for 8 weeks. 250-500 mg /week thats it. i ran test cycles in the past as high as 700-800/week. i personnally have always felt more is not necessarily better. glad to see someone with the same perspective. good luck!

**chris2wire** · 07-12-2005, 10:06 PM

Seems to me low dose shuts you down the same as high dose, since a shut down is a shut down...

Therefore a higher dose for a short amount of time will be better for your natural test production than a low dose longer cycle...

**Two4the$$** · 07-12-2005, 10:52 PM

This isn't a debate. There are clinical studies that say otherwise. If anyone reading believes that low dose AND SHORT duration (cause that's what this is...) is the ticket, feel free to do so. But do it knowing that it is PROVEN that higher doses of test = greater gains. Of course, there are limitations to this, but within a gram a week you're not even getting near them.

I agree with Chris...

Dude, did you even frontload? Cause if you didn't, the first 3 weeks you're test levels weren't even above normal range for men.

**chris2wire** · 07-12-2005, 11:40 PM

Yes lemme add I have experianced test in varying doses and gains always come based on dosage.. More so than working out and diet.

Do I think theres a ceiling? Yes, but its in the higher ranges around or over 1gram.

For me 420mg a week gave gains but 490 gave more, 560 even more, and 700 the most. Im not going to go over 700, I just dont like the idea of getting to high, but one thing has been clear... The higher the dose the more the gains.

Additionally... Like I said above, a shut down is a shut down. If youre going to shut your testosterone down and put your body in health danger you may as well get something out of it like big gains instead of using a low dose and getting smaller gains.. Because the shut down and health risks are the same. Ya know?

I do believe theres a place for low doses in bodybuilding.... Like for HRT or something, or for orals when you dont want to tax the liver as much, but as for this conversation higher actually is better.

**Two4the$$** · 07-13-2005, 12:18 AM

Agreed. Heres a hooker thread.

http://www.bodybuilding4life.com/for...ead.php?t=6612

Is this gospel? Nope. Are there references? Yup.

**Two4the$$** · 07-13-2005, 12:35 AM

I see this guy surrendered his plight. lol.

**Trooper5** · 07-27-2005, 08:33 AM

I dont get how people are telling me there is NO debate, and that the higher the dosage the more gains, how can you tell me that when I PERSONALLY got MORE GAINS at a lower dose? Lol i mean i dont get how someone can sit here and tell me that when its just wrong, PERSONALLY, for me. I got better gains at a lower dose cycle, PERIOD. Dont sit here and tell me there is no debate, because for me there isnt, the debate is over, I recieve better/more gains at a lower dosed cycle. Other people might not agree with that, but dont tell me its not true for me.

**timtim** · 07-27-2005, 01:36 PM

if it worked it worked. don't worry about anything else.

**The Baron** · 07-27-2005, 01:51 PM

Timtim is right. No need to argue. Just do what works for you and what you are comfortable with. Myself, I would not run less than 500mg of test with the 400mg of eq, and I would not stop the test entirely while running the var and winny, though I might switch to prop. You already know my reasons for running higher test. They are the same reasons everyone else will give you. You choose not to do so, having made an intelligent decision, weighing all the factors, so do what you want to do and don't waste your time arguing about it. You are right, and those who argue with you, they are right, too. Just do your thing and go in peace.

**Two4the$$** · 07-27-2005, 02:25 PM

Well, the thing is... it's not like this was a "scientific" discovery. There's no guarantee that he did everything identical EXCEPT run a lower dosage.

Whatever works for you, yeah... kind of. But I bet there are more variables than you're acknowledging.

**heckler45_2000** · 07-28-2005, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

This isn't a debate. There are clinical studies that say otherwise. If anyone reading believes that low dose AND SHORT duration (cause that's what this is...) is the ticket, feel free to do so. But do it knowing that it is PROVEN that higher doses of test = greater gains. Of course, there are limitations to this, but within a gram a week you're not even getting near them.

I agree with Chris...

Dude, did you even frontload? Cause if you didn't, the first 3 weeks you're test levels weren't even above normal range for men.

Bro if you read what he first wrote it says he gained 13 pounds less on this cycle than his usual cycle. I believe he meant the cycle gave him very lean gains which made him look bigger. He did not say you will gain more weight and increase your bench by x amount of weight on low dose cycles. All he said was that it was his best cycle as far as looking good. Also on your comment that 250mgs is under a regular mans range I would love to see some data on that!!!!! Ive known people to take 250mgs and gain 20 pounds in a 10 weeks cycle. Also I know that 1,000mgs of test will yeild better results so dont go there.

**lfrisbee** · 07-28-2005, 01:13 AM

Its all about looking good and feeling good... keep up the good work bro - thanks for the info...

**scotttiger54** · 07-28-2005, 01:25 AM

here's my theory.... it all depends on your genetic potential as well as the capability your body has of holding higher amounts of body weight. i've ran 16-20wk cycles of 300mg/wk of test enth and cyp and had awesome gains. however, i certainly have ran higher dosed cycles and put on great gains as well. this just proves that some ppl respond better than others to anabolics. if i were smart i'd stick to the lower dosed cycles simply because itwould save me an ass load of money. but i'm hard-headed so i'll just continue to blow my money enjoy it like hell while doing it

**Duke of Earl** · 07-28-2005, 04:36 AM

I think heckler has got it right - trooper is obviously not trying to get freaky huge - just a ''good'' physique - it's true that a higher dose will give more gains, however if you're looking just to put on 10lbs & drop some bf% to look good for the ladies then a couple of low dosers will definately do the trick.
I like low dose cycles because I'm not trying to get huge - just trying to look lean & ''medium sized''

**STONES2** · 07-28-2005, 04:50 AM

Hey Troopper, hope you don't mind me asking , (I am on my first cycle ) what was the reasons you did not keep the gains you had made from the previous cycles.

I understand that we all lose some after pct but it seemed that you lost most if not all and if I understood correctly was it on purpose?

Learning

Twostones

***xxx*** · 07-28-2005, 06:57 AM

if u lose everything u gained during a cycle, ur doing something wrong. especially with 6'0 and under 200lbs.period.

**Trooper5** · 07-30-2005, 12:11 PM

For STONES, after every cycle i kept most of my gains for awhile but eventually wound up losing some of them. I think that after every cycle my natural weight i would notice would always be around 5-7 pounds heavier than the previous year. So i know i kept some of my gains. It would be like for the first 2 months after my cycle i would keep all, then months 2-4 i would lose gradually, then months 4-6 i would lose a little more. That is even with correct PCT. I also think i didnt keep all my gains because you have to understand i usually only cycle once a year for 10-15 months and thats it. A lot of people i personally see keep their gains most of the year, are people who are on for 9 or ten months a year.

**Trooper5** · 07-30-2005, 12:15 PM

10-15 weeks, lol ... typo ... The main reason for me posting this thread was to give some feedback to people who were curious about running lower dosed cycles. I know that a high dose cycle is obviously gonna put more size and add more weight. Im trying to give my personal experiences and hope someone will learn from them and take them into consideration to help them. The bottom line is my lower dosed cycle made me noticabley stronger and much leaner and just better looking than any higher dosed cycle ive ever done in the past. To each his own right?