How to keep gains?

**RageforOrder78** · 07-22-2005, 06:55 PM

After reading over this site it seems most people think that a good first cylce at 15 weeks would be:

Weeks 1-10: test e at 500mg/a wk (split into two equal shots a week)
Weeks 1-15: nolvadex at 20mg/day
Weeks 1-4: d-bol at 30mg/day
Weeks 13-15: clomid at 100 mg/day

I don't want to be Schwarzenegger big, but would like to put on some decent size and keep it... I'd like to only do one or two cycles... my question is how much of my gains should I expect to keep? Any help would be appreciated...

**thejuiceisloose** · 07-22-2005, 06:58 PM

Depends on how much you gain initially. Eat EAT EAT!!! Get big

~theJuice~

**BeefCakeStew** · 07-22-2005, 07:05 PM

There are many factors that will determine how much of your gains you will keep. It is not impossible to keep 90-95% of lean muscle mass after a cycle; however, that really depends on how well you eat and take care of your body post cycle. You must also remember that of a 15-20llbs of your gains, much of that can and often will be water weight, which will ultimately be lost. Again diet and rest will be key and if you don't have a good diet right now than dont even consider the cycle because you will be waisting time and money.

BTW The cycle looks solid. Nice to see that you researched. Thats a start to keeping gains

**Tazwell** · 07-22-2005, 07:52 PM

you should keep a majority of you gains if you do pct, and already have a nice "foundation" to build your muscle on.

**spooledup** · 07-22-2005, 07:58 PM

2 weeks after your last injection start an anavar cycle 50mg ED for 6 weeks. Bingo!

Come off the var with a light PCT (depending on how much var suppresses you) using nolva or clomid .

**RuffRyder87** · 07-22-2005, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by spooledup

2 weeks after your last injection start an anavar cycle 50mg ED for 6 weeks. Bingo!

Come off the var with a light PCT (depending on how much var suppresses you) using nolva or clomid .

Are you sure thats okay to do? Wouldnt that make pct even tougher to get back to normal test levels? I myself am really worried bout pct. I dont want to loose my gains.

**doctodd** · 07-22-2005, 08:40 PM

It also depends on your normal test and LH/FSH levels after you are done. As you get older, and i mean possibly even in your 30's, your test levels slowly come down. Doing cycles can theoretically accelerate this process, which means you will be a good candidate for male hormone replacement earlier in life. But i think we should be doing male hormone replacement anyway, even for men who never do gear.

T

**RageforOrder78** · 07-22-2005, 10:43 PM

bump

**timtim** · 07-23-2005, 04:40 AM

2 weeks after your last injection start an anavar cycle 50mg ED for 6 weeks. Bingo!

that would mean his first cycle would last 23 weeks. too long. not the safest advice for a first cycle. 15 weeks is long for a first cycle too.

**spooledup** · 07-23-2005, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by timtim

that would mean his first cycle would last 23 weeks. too long. not the safest advice for a first cycle. 15 weeks is long for a first cycle too.

You cant add. His last injection would be week 10. Week 12 he starts the var for 6 weeks. Thats 18 weeks total. Not 23.

Ive had complete bloodwork done after a similar cycle and my liver and kidney values were fine...as well as cholesterol.

In mt case, var is very safe.

**timtim** · 07-23-2005, 08:19 PM

misread the post, thought it was 15 weeks.

your advice makes little sense to add var after 2 weeks of nothing following a 10 week cycle of test. makes no sense and prolongs pct making recovery that much harder.

**Dalton5** · 07-23-2005, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by RageforOrder78

After reading over this site it seems most people think that a good first cylce at 15 weeks would be:

Weeks 1-10: test e at 500mg/a wk (split into two equal shots a week)
Weeks 1-15: nolvadex at 20mg/day
Weeks 1-4: d-bol at 30mg/day
Weeks 13-15: clomid at 100 mg/day

I don't want to be Schwarzenegger big, but would like to put on some decent size and keep it... I'd like to only do one or two cycles... my question is how much of my gains should I expect to keep? Any help would be appreciated...

You should enjoy this dude....this is very similar to my first cycle (i had even less test) and gained 30 pnds and didnt lose a bit (i kept some water on pc with creatine)

BG · 07-23-2005, 08:41 PM

A good pct helps tremendously

**SABAGOY** · 07-23-2005, 09:06 PM

A good saying to remember is "Getting big while on steroids is easy.Staying big while off is the hard part" Most people give it 100% while on but once off start slacking. When you get off is when i think you really need to watch your diet and training. And be careful not to overtrain. Good luck.

**spooledup** · 07-23-2005, 09:27 PM

Thats where you're wrong. It doesnt prolong PCT.

Recall that var is only lightly suppressive of HPTA. It also has been medically demonstrated to prevent muscle wasting. It has been used in BB'ing for decades to preserve muscle when dieting is targeted at minimal calories.

The idea is to use the var to maintain your gains while allowing your HPTA/test levels to come up for the most part. Believe me, test will suppress you MUCH worse than var. The var does an outstanding job at this. Then follow up with a light PCT.

So no, it's your post that doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by timtim

misread the post, thought it was 15 weeks.

prolongs pct making recovery that much harder.

**timtim** · 07-24-2005, 06:50 AM

your wrong. he is shut down 100% when you start the var. the 6 weeks on isn't lightly surpressive when your 100% shut down. what are you talking about? you can't be 150% shut down, once the test is shut off, that's it till you aid in the hpta recovery. 6 extra weeks of var doesn't make this easier and doesn't aid in hpta recovery.

or are you saying with no pct started and no pct drugs began that the var will stimulate his hpta to start up again making his recovery take place during the var time?

your wrong. he's 100% shut down when you start the var. light suppression by var (which like primo is argumentative in how little it affects the hpta, not everyone is affected in the same manner) means nothing when the hpta is shut off from the test.

you say it's easier to recover from this FIRST CYCLE:

Weeks 1-10: test e at 500mg/a wk (split into two equal shots a week)
Weeks 1-4: d-bol at 30mg/day
weeks 11- 12: nothing
weeks 13 - 18 var
pct starting weeks 19 or 20

explain how being completely suppressed for 18 or 19 weeks for a first cycle is easy to recover from. the anavar extends the amount of time he is shut down by an extra 6 to 7 weeks.

why is a 6 week cycle extension for var only supposed to make recovery easier?

**sensaispike** · 07-24-2005, 02:32 PM

i was thinking of doing a cycle like this, however i would like to be "Schwarzenegger big" ha ha, i am gonna do mine in about a month or so, and it will be my first i cant wait.... i might throw in some milk thisle to help woth the d-bol, my question is, is 2 week of pct enough?