steroids didn't work!

**tryin2getbig** · 04-25-2002, 02:50 PM

Here goes...my roomate has been lifting for about 2 years now seriously and has hardly put on any muscle mass. He is an ectomorph and putting on weight for him is impossible. About 5 weeks ago i got him started on a cycle of Sustanon 500mg a week for a basic begginner cycle, and i went on my cycle. We did everything the same, lift, eat, sleep. So it is the end of week 5 for us and i put on 20 lbs and he put on 5lbs. I don't know what to tell him i feel so bad. The gear is not fake because i am on the same thing plus my source is very reliable. We do everything the same is it just that steroids don't work for him or just because he is a hard gainer?? I don't know what to tell him.

**McBain** · 04-25-2002, 02:55 PM

If he is a different body type than you, he shouldn't be eating/training/resting the same way you do. That's probably why he didn't gain much. Everyone is different. Reason you need a good solid base before juicing is because you have to know what works for you in terms of routine, diet and rest. Hence why no one can just tell you a good routine, you have to figure that out for yourself, some people respond to low volume training, some to high volume. Some need more rest, some need less. Some need to eat more to gain weight, some should cut back a bit so they don't get so fat.

**NoLimits** · 04-25-2002, 02:56 PM

Sounds like a calorie deficiency. It takes three things to grow...
Work-out (break the muscle down)
Nutrition
Rest

Being an Ecto, it takes food to grow!

Are you two the same size, age?

(sorry Mcbain, we were headed in the same direction)

**jbrand** · 04-25-2002, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by McBain
If he is a different body type than you, he shouldn't be eating/training/resting the same way you do. That's probably why he didn't gain much. Everyone is different. Reason you need a good solid base before juicing is because you have to know what works for you in terms of routine, diet and rest. Hence why no one can just tell you a good routine, you have to figure that out for yourself, some people respond to low volume training, some to high volume. Some need more rest, some need less. Some need to eat more to gain weight, some should cut back a bit so they don't get so fat.

exactly. in many cases "hardgainers" fail to realize that they are primarily slow twitch muscle fibers and continue to train along with others with 4-6RM weight loads. AAS come way after learning about your own body and what suits you best, that's where he went wrong.

**Uconish** · 04-25-2002, 03:50 PM

What if he tries eating extra calories later ate night Maybe drink a weight gainer shake an hour before bed If i was him and wanted to put on size i would seriously gorge on as much food as possible After all the training doesnt make us grow What makes us grow is the rest and the food we eat

On a side note does he party alot Drink lots of alcohol I dont know if you guys are students at college but if he does that might be the problem I know it was for me for a while

**saint808** · 04-25-2002, 03:54 PM

He's gonna need more food it sounds like. Seriously once you get the training and nutrition down the rest is cake (eat that too btw... just eat dammit), Personally i think I would rather be tiny and trying to put on weight than to lose it.

**jbrand** · 04-25-2002, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Uconish
What if he tries eating extra calories later ate night Maybe drink a weight gainer shake an hour before bed If i was him and wanted to put on size i would seriously gorge on as much food as possible After all the training doesnt make us grow What makes us grow is the rest and the food we eat

On a side note does he party alot Drink lots of alcohol I dont know if you guys are students at college but if he does that might be the problem I know it was for me for a while

training doesn't make us grow?

**B-A-M-F** · 04-25-2002, 03:59 PM

eating a shake late night wont do anything, i tried that a few years back and just forced me to have to do abs, eat the shakes throughout the day, rest a ton, train hard. eat like hell, 5lbs, was it noticable or not, i wanna hear more about this man, keep us posted

**tryin2getbig** · 04-25-2002, 04:17 PM

believe me guys i've told him all of this information that you are saying. We are both ectomorphs and we are doing heavy sets for everything and we are both eating 4500-5000 calories a day with everything up high including carbs and fats, I try to switch things up for him to see what his body can get adjusted to but nothing seems to work. The 5lbs that he put on are not noticeable at all. The only thing that is working on him is that his strength went up a lot but thats about it. We both get about a good 8-9 hours of sleep a night so its not that. It was basically my fault for starting him on the steroids without having a good base, but at the same time nothing seems to work for him. He eats more than anyone i have ever seen even before the steroids and they are foods with high protein and complex carbs. I gotta figure something out. Because now he is getting really depressed when he saw that i have put about 20lbs on already and he just hit 5 lbs.

**RAMPAGE** · 04-25-2002, 04:23 PM

hold on sust-500 a week that stuff starts to kick in at 4-5 weeks so if he gained 5 pnds thinking that its an 8-10 wk cycle all the gaining starts at 4-5 wks hes right on track your the one who should be checking bf% bro 20 pnds wk 5 on sust thats not muscle thats fat...in my opinion but i could be wrong..

**tryin2getbig** · 04-25-2002, 05:21 PM

i am on a lot more than just 500mg of sust, the reason why i already gained 20lbs is because for the first 4 weeks i was on 40mg of d-bol a day and i'm also on EQ at 600mg week then adding winny at the end of cycle. Also the sust for me kicks in on the 3rd week so i can give him until the 4th or 5th week, but what about the propitionate...that kicks in right away. My last cycle i had no orals and i gained about 10lbs by the 4th week, so i don't think it is that for him because he already has incredible strength gains from the 2nd to 3rd to 4th week. Besides 5lbs is really nothing, that could just be water retention.

**jersey juice** · 04-25-2002, 05:26 PM

High carb, high protein type diet I would think since he's an ectomorph...lots of solid foods, yams, rice, beef, poultry, shakes, hell tell him to eat a box of capn crunch every morning, his metabolism must be friggin quick. All the gear in the world won't do shit if the fuel isn't there.

**cnyce89** · 04-25-2002, 05:34 PM

sound slike me,.,,,HJUST HAVE HIM EAT!!!!!
Get a weight gainer or even already mixed weight gaining shakes...good way to suck down an easy 1000+ cals and 215 Carbs and 50 g protien

**Iron horse** · 04-25-2002, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by jbrand

exactly. in many cases "hardgainers" fail to realize that they are primarily slow twitch muscle fibers and continue to train along with others with 4-6RM weight loads. AAS come way after learning about your own body and what suits you best, that's where he went wrong.

what are you saying is best for the hard gainers??

btw - Im like your friend, can't gain easily at all. Weight Gainer's twice a day when Im bulking.

**cnyce89** · 04-25-2002, 05:48 PM

weight gainers twice a day? how many cals carbs and protien do you think you are consuming a Day just from weight gainers alone?
for me, its a lil more than...
1500cals
300 carbs.
100 G protien

Then i have all my meals aday on top of that

**jbrand** · 04-25-2002, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Iron horse

what are you saying is best for the hard gainers??

btw - Im like your friend, can't gain easily at all. Weight Gainer's twice a day when Im bulking.

this isn't a generalization for hardgainers as a whole, but rather advice for anyone who has trouble putting on weight:

completely alter all loading parameters of your current workout regimen. the best bet is to lower training volume, increase repetition range, decrease rest in between sets, and use a predetermined tempo (X-0-3-1 works well, as I am not a fan of planning concentric speed).

**jbrand** · 04-25-2002, 05:51 PM

keep in mind I am assuming the trainee is coming from your normal bodybuilding high volume, low rep scheme. it's a matter of changing training variables completely.

**Iron horse** · 04-25-2002, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by cnyce89
weight gainers twice a day? how many cals carbs and protien do you think you are consuming a Day just from weight gainers alone?
for me, its a lil more than...
1500cals
300 carbs.
100 G protien

Then i have all my meals aday on top of that

I have a HIGH metabolism so I dont get fat, so thats why do this.

one shake

3% milk
1300 calories,
28 grams of fat
70 grams of protien
200 carbs
lots of amino acids in it.

then i take 2 digestive enzyme tablets.

what a combo!! also through in some ALA if ya can

I have to shakes a day on top of my meals.

**tryin2getbig** · 04-25-2002, 05:54 PM

i hate to say this to you guys but he has a weight gainer shake spread out throughout the day which has about 1800 calories, 60 grams of protein and 325 grams of carbs...plus eating 5-7 meals a day...should i tell him to take another weight gainer shake a day, the only thing about them are they are loaded with sugar. I'll let you guys know in another 1-2 weeks to see if he gained anymore weight. Thanks for all the help

**McBain** · 04-25-2002, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Iron horse

I have a HIGH metabolism so I dont get fat, so thats why do this.

one shake

3% milk
1300 calories,
28 grams of fat
70 grams of protien
200 carbs
lots of amino acids in it.

then i take 2 digestive enzyme tablets.

what a combo!! also through in some ALA if ya can

I have to shakes a day on top of my meals.

What do you throw in your shakes? or is it store bought?

**Iron horse** · 04-25-2002, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by McBain

What do you throw in your shakes? or is it store bought?

I start with Mammoth 2500 "bannana"

use 3% milk instead of 2%

I usual add glutamine and creatine,

then I pop two distgestive enzyme pills

**Iron horse** · 04-25-2002, 08:20 PM

this will sound sick, but I always do the all out growth shake when Im feeling hardcore'

milk 1 litre
4 eggs
tuna
+some high protien pounder

**dumblucky** · 04-25-2002, 11:47 PM

I was like him too so I changed my training to high volume..low reps
4 exercises per body part ,5 sets each exercise, pyramiding up and down .. worked for me......

ohhh yea I also went to a gram of test a week

**jbrand** · 04-25-2002, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by dumblucky
I was like him too so I changed my training to high volume..low reps
4 exercises per body part ,5 sets each exercise, pyramiding up and down .. worked for me......

ohhh yea I also went to a gram of test a week

a gram? fucking placebo effect