Natty Test?

[catlovesfood]

Although the amount of natural test produced by the body varies from person to person, but using the average male, how much size is the body able to retain after numerous cycles, using Natty Test only, no slin,gh,igf-1 etc.

For example I am 5,11 230 lb 8-11 % bf (varies) 3rd cycle - how much more size can my body hold with natty test only?

[catlovesfood]

bump

[_Tiger_]

Not totally sure what your asking, how much can it retain after you've done AAS????? If you do proper PCT, hopefully all of it

[Defconx3]

That depends on your genetics. I would imagine that you should be able to keep all of the mass as long as you follow a proper PCT protocol.

[catlovesfood]

That depends on your genetics. I would imagine that you should be able to keep all of the mass as long as you follow a proper PCT protocol.

But obviously there is some limit, you cant get to ronnies size and keep all your mass with or with out proper pct, do you know what I mean?

I just trying to find out the average limit to how big you can stay after AAS on your natty test alone.

[Pump A Holic]

There is no precise formula to determine how many mgs of natural test it would take to maintain your muscular gains that have surpassed your genetic potential.

Just remember--constant shock = constant growth. (With, of course, FOOD and REST!)

[_Tiger_]

Ronnie didnt get to where he is today SOLEY from AAS. that's the thing. there are big Mofo's out there, but that doesnt mean AAS carried them the whole way, hell no. When you gain lean muscle while using AAS, if your diet is sufficient to keep that extra muscle around then I dont think your going to have problems

[Seattle Junk]

Don't think it's just natty test levels. It comes down to actual muscle fiber, strands. You're muscles are augmented by mostly water when on cycle and your goal is to recruit as many fibers as possible in this window. Training these fibers and volumizing them as much as possible is the key to lasting gains. Along with proper PCT of course. GH/IGF1 will actually alter your genetics and bring your natural weight up with more lbm. From what I've read, this is done through the mystical cell division with IGF1. Not so mystical anymore since science has really blown this wide open with the life extension stuff. Money to be made. So IGF1 will actually grow new fibers via cell divsion and llet you pass your genetic limit that God gave you. Almost scarey but true. I love the biochemistry of anabolics and growth factors. Our endoncrine system is vital to our helath and phycosis. We must use this stuff responsible and let our system rest and return to normal before starting up again.

This is why this life extension places are calling GH, IGF1 and roids the fountain of youth. Uhhhhh, BBs have been using this stuff for quite awhile. I wonder where they got their data?

[catlovesfood]

really? You guys mean as long as I eat right, constantly shock my body and cycle properly I can get much bigger, and holding that weight with my natty test alone?

[Pump A Holic]

Ronnie didnt get to where he is today SOLEY from AAS. that's the thing. there are big Mofo's out there, but that doesnt mean AAS carried them the whole way, hell no. When you gain lean muscle while using AAS, if your diet is sufficient to keep that extra muscle around then I dont think your going to have problems

There are variables OTHER than diet that will determine his ability to keep his gains--hormonal factors are indeed involved. SO too are things like insulin sensitvity, thyroid activity, BMR, Testosterone levels , GH levels, ect

[_Tiger_]

really? You guys mean as long as I eat right, constantly shock my body and cycle properly I can get much bigger, and holding that weight with my natty test alone?

YES. when you grow actual muscle, you grow it! If you keep eating right to support that muscle, why would it just disappear?

Good post seattle junk, very informative bro

[Seattle Junk]

There are variables OTHER than diet that will determine his ability to keep his gains--hormonal factors are indeed involved. SO too are things like insulin sensitvity, thyroid activity, BMR, Testosterone levels, GH levels, ect

You are right but I am considering a correct PCT, diet and training when off cycle. I know people that only work out when they are on. So when the go off they shrink, don't eat right and stop working out. Of course you'll lose everything, jeez....

I'm fine losing 10-15% of my gains post cycle if I correctly PCT, diet and train. I know my bf% will be lower and I'm now a healthier person. I also understand the strength and size that was lost was water. I can't get discourages by that and go right back on a cycle. I think of it as this is my real body when I'm off and if I feel I look pretty good, that is true happiness to me.

[catlovesfood]

Theres a guy at my gym that told me when he comes off gear from 2 grams test to natty test he looses alot of size his about 270, a true monster - but he told me to keep his size he has to stay 'on' costantly down to 500mg test/week - I guess it varies from person to person..

[Seattle Junk]

Theres a guy at my gym that told me when he comes off gear from 2 grams test to natty test he looses alot of size his about 270, a true monster - but he told me to keep his size he has to stay 'on' costantly down to 500mg test/week - I guess it varies from person to person..

Ahhhh, that is bad. I've had friends like that too. I know one idiot that would tell me he is off, clean. But he's still doing 4-5 dbols only, no biggie. That's off? Oh yeah, this guys partys a lot too. He'll be the 4th guy I know who dies early from abuse of many chemical. I don't like him very much along with about everybody else I know.... He probably won't die and live a long life with a lot of health problems. All the same if not worse....

[catlovesfood]

thanks for the info seattlejunk - cheers

[Rickson]

There is no one answer for your question. Like everyone has said before everyone has a different genertic limit. Your body will generally want to return you to that size once you go over it. Someone like Ronnie Coleman will lose muscle mass if he ever decides to come off High dosages simply because he is so far over his natural limit but he may still end up bigger than I ever get while I am on high dosages because his genetics are so much better. Certainly all the other factors mentioned play a role in what will ultimately be your ending natural size.

[catlovesfood]

thanks Rickson

[Pump A Holic]

You are right but I am considering a correct PCT, diet and training when off cycle. I know people that only work out when they are on. So when the go off they shrink, don't eat right and stop working out. Of course you'll lose everything, jeez....

I'm fine losing 10-15% of my gains post cycle if I correctly PCT, diet and train. I know my bf% will be lower and I'm now a healthier person. I also understand the strength and size that was lost was water. I can't get discourages by that and go right back on a cycle. I think of it as this is my real body when I'm off and if I feel I look pretty good, that is true happiness to me.

If you think you are ONLY losing WATER post cycle, you are mistaken. BUT ignorance is bliss..

[Unoid]

its kind of educated sense that you're body can only MAINTAIN a certain amount of muscle based on your natural test amount or if you're on foreign test 24x7x365.

The guy is asking how much muscle can he maintain after cycles and expect to keep in the long run. based on having 50-70mg/test week age 30+.

I would say at 5-10 to 6-0 you could keep 250lbs at 8%BF while natural. granted proper diet and training...

[catlovesfood]

its kind of educated sense that you're body can only MAINTAIN a certain amount of muscle based on your natural test amount or if you're on foreign test 24x7x365.

The guy is asking how much muscle can he maintain after cycles and expect to keep in the long run. based on having 50-70mg/test week age 30+.

I would say at 5-10 to 6-0 you could keep 250lbs at 8%BF while natural. granted proper diet and training...

Thanks UNOID, That is exactly what i am asking, so you reckon its possible to hold 250 lb gear free, are there any other opinions?

[Pump A Holic]

Thanks UNOID, That is exactly what i am asking, so you reckon its possible to hold 250 lb gear free, are there any other opinions?

With GENETICS permitting....
YES

Thats a biggie though....and you will never know until you do it.

[catlovesfood]

cool, thanks for the info Pump A Holic.

[Unoid]

Thanks UNOID, That is exactly what i am asking, so you reckon its possible to hold 250 lb gear free, are there any other opinions?

glad I could help some. I am by no means a doctor in any sorta but I'm going from just extensive knowledge of how heavy I've known people to be and were natural.

[catlovesfood]

just extensive knowledge of how heavy I've known people to be and were natural.

But are you taking height into account, you would be suprised how much a couple of inches of bone makes you weigh..

[Slic4788]

But are you taking height into account, you would be suprised how much a couple of inches of bone makes you weigh..

yep that's why he said 5'10-6'0.

[Slic4788]

it's just not test level,gh, igf...i'm sure there's other issues like protein metabolism and nitrogen level? I mean the body is pretty complex.