Hcg during cycle?

[dsa8864667]

Im in my 7th week of 15week cycle should I use hcg in mid cycle or at all would it hinder my gains?

1-7 Teste/400mg
8-15 Teste/600mg
1-13 Deca /300mg
Plus proper PCT

[dsa8864667]

I need answer before bed bump.

[Pinnacle]

You can most certainly use it now,it won't hinder gains at all.It will help bring your boys back,and aid in recovery as well.

Run 500 iu's every 3 days,up to 1 week before PCT.It can be ran sub q or IM,that's your choice.

~Pinnacle~

[Pinnacle]

Good night.


~Pinnacle~

[Knight1811]

Im in my 7th week of 15week cycle should I use hcg in mid cycle or at all would it hinder my gains?

1-7 Teste/400mg
8-15 Teste/600mg
1-13 Deca /300mg
Plus proper PCT

HCG will not hinder your gains if used mid cycle...quiet the contrary. The rational for use in mid cycle is to prevent the nads from total inactivity/shrinking and to keep them fuller when you end your cycle thereby allowing for a quicker recovery during PCT. Also, the shots usually don't exceed 500 IUs per shot. The shots are administer about 2 times a week. A well respected HRT doc, Swale, recommends about 250 IUs 2 or 3 times week thru the whole program. Since it is a such a low dosage it is ok to protract the administration period of HCG. However, higher doses (750 or 1000 IUs and above) will desensitize your leydig cell and prolong your recovery.

SHOOT, here you read it yourself:


New hcg administration dosage theory PCT by SWALE

Here is an great article on PCT by SWALE (he is an MD)

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

[Knight1811]

You can most certainly use it now,it won't hinder gains at all.It will help bring your boys back,and aid in recovery as well.

Run 500 iu's every 3 days,up to 1 week before PCT.It can be ran sub q or IM,that's your choice.

~Pinnacle~

DSA, this is very solid advice. Easier to read than mine. lol.

[dsa8864667]

Was told by my hrt clinic to do 500iu eod

[dsa8864667]

It is a 10,000 iu vial im adding 2.5cc of bw then doing 50units eod sub-Q with 100unit insulin syringe. Thats how i was told to do it by the hrt clinic what you guys think?

[Knight1811]

It is a 10,000 iu vial im adding 2.5cc of bw then doing 50units eod sub-Q with 100unit insulin syringe. Thats how i was told to do it by the hrt clinic what you guys think?

Bro, someone at your HRT clinic needs to learn simple math. A 10K IU vial with 2.5cc of BW is going to give about 4X the concentration of 10CCs of water. Thus, 50 units (at the 2.5CCs) on an insulin syringe is going to give you 2000 IUs per 50 units or 4000 IUs per 100 units on a insulin needle. 1 CC = about 100 units in the insulin needle. 2.5 CCs = 250 units on insulin needle...which works out to 2.5 insulin needles....anyways...50 units of 10K IU diluted with 2.5 CC of BW = 2000 IUs....you will get five shots worth and you are out.

Had to edit this to answer your question....to get 500 IU from 10K IU vial diluted with 2.5CCs = 12.5 units on insulin syringe. The better way is to dilute with 5CCs of BW....therefore you will need 25 units on insulin syringe to get 500IUs.

Knight1811

[Mesomorphyl]

Bro, someone at your HRT clinic needs to learn simple math. A 10K IU vial with 2.5cc of BW is going to give about 4X the concentration of 10CCs of water. Thus, 50 units (at the 2.5CCs) on an insulin syringe is going to give you 2000 IUs per 50 units or 4000 IUs per 100 units on a insulin needle. 1 CC = about 100 units in the insulin needle. 2.5 CCs = 250 units on insulin needle...which works out to 2.5 insulin needles....anyways...50 units of 10K IU diluted with 2.5 CC of BW = 2000 IUs....you will get five shots worth and you are out.

This is exactly how I use it... 5 shots spaced about 4 days apart mid-cycle and then another 5 shots ending just before pct. I would take nolva to prevent desensitization issues as well as estrogen spikes. This method has worked for me as I have only suggested swales protocol to one individual as he was on hrt for life. I cycle so I feel that long term use could create as much challenges than short higher dose bursts. This is anecdotal, from my research and my personal experience. Take it for what you will... I will not debate this issue as I know what works for me.

[Knight1811]

This is exactly how I use it... 5 shots spaced about 4 days apart mid-cycle and then another 5 shots ending just before pct. I would take nolva to prevent desensitization issues as well as estrogen spikes. This method has worked for me as I have only suggested swales protocol to one individual as he was on hrt for life. I cycle so I feel that long term use could create as much challenges than short higher dose bursts. This is anecdotal, from my research and my personal experience. Take it for what you will... I will not debate this issue as I know what works for me.

That's cool. Different strokes for different folks....I'm not going to judge your protocol and from the number of posts you have...I don't think I have your level of knowledge to judge you....so, I'm keeping my mouth shut.

Anyways, I was merely pointing out an inconsistency regaring the advice from his HRT clinic. In one post he states his HRT clinic recommended 500 IUs EOD then in the next post he states...his HRT clinic told him to do 50 units on an insulin syringe with 2.5CCs of BW into 10K IU vial....well when one does the math....50 units of an insulin syringe which has a solution of 10K IU HCG diluted with 2.5CCs...does not equal 500 IUS...it equals 2000 IUs per CC. So, I'm just pointing out that his HRT clinic needs to redo the math and advise him which protocol they want him to take...500 IUs or 2000 IUs and then advise him correctly on the dilution to obtain the correct IUs per unit on the insulin syringe.


Knight1811

[Mesomorphyl]

That's cool. Different strokes for different folks....I'm not going to judge your protocol and from the number of posts you have...I don't think I have your level of knowledge to judge you....so, I'm keeping my mouth shut.

Knight1811

First the math you did helped me... thanks. I always have used a 25g intramuscular injection. I will still go IM but will use a .5 slin pin now because of your math.

Next, do not always judge by number of posts. Some talk in different areas, such as the political lounge(I have been fond of as of late) or the lounge(some can be post whores). With that said if you research and have experience... you can debate protocols. I will not debate as there is info on both ways of administration and I have argued this many times so I choose not to anymore.

[dsa8864667]

After dilluting the hcg how long can it be stored in fridge dose it go bad like HGH?

[dsa8864667]

bump

[Two4the$$]

about 30 days... but some say longer. The other thing is that hCG may actually produce more acne than the cycle itself...

Think about it - PCT usually accompanies acne... and when I do hCG during, I get acne also... hmmmmm... anyone else?

[G-13]

I have some mild acne but it could be from the test or tren or hcg , hell i dont know. I take 2-3 showers a day and scrub with a microderm abrasion cloth and it seems to be working well. The acne i do get, hurts like a bitch, and i seem to bleed more. I will be glad when this cycle is over, because my next one is going to be bad ass. haha and i said i was only going to do one...

[Two4the$$]

Well, whats your plan for the next one?

[G-13]

Well, whats your plan for the next one?

I dont have it exact but this is close

Prop 100mg ed 1-16
fina 75mg ed 1-12
eq 600mg 1-14
Mastabol will be added toward the end of my cycle, not sure at what week or how much.
igf lr3 will be used 2x during the cycle.

Thats about it. And all the ancillaries

[Two4the$$]

You mean masteron . lol. Looks pretty similar to what I just started... good luck with that.

[G-13]

You mean masteron. lol. Looks pretty similar to what I just started... good luck with that.

LOL Its the same thing, I know what i meant.

http://www.britishdragon.com/mastabol100.asp