Western Union Scare?

**Transend** · 10-19-2005, 07:56 AM

I had an issue with WU last night that I wanted everyones input on. I used the online method (used my real info for account setup- stupid, i know). Wanted to send 200eu to greece. I ended up with a trasaction denied page and a request to call an 800# to give more info to put the thing through. I call and get hung up on. Second call i get a lady who asks if im sending to greece- i say yes. Then she asks if i know the person- i say yeah, its a friend from college. She pauses for a few seconds and tell me that my transaction will not be completed tonight and that I can still send cash via an agent. I didnt ask as to why for fear that it would make a 'casual' transaction issue turn into something serious.

What do you guys think? recipient is flagged? Am i at any risk? Ive read threads but nothing with WU and something like this. Thought id try the net of knowledge- any thoughts?

**Mesomorphyl** · 10-19-2005, 07:59 AM

This patriot act thingy... WU has gotten bad about tracking money for the government... well for terrorist contributors I guess. I just think they want an excuse as a tool for control.

Oh, they will ask what the person looks like(they did me anyway). I would ask them what to respond or tell them you just gave a general description.(I did like - 5'10" brown hair and that was all they needed)

.

**Transend** · 10-19-2005, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

This patriot act thingy... WU has gotten bad about tracking money for the government... well for terrorist contributors I guess. I just think they want an excuse as a tool for control.

Oh, they will ask what the person looks like(they did me anyway). I would ask them what to respond or tell them you just gave a general description.(I did like - 5'10" brown hair and that was all they needed)

.

I should expect to be contacted by them? Should i have used fake info? I thought that the 'college friend' deal would have been good enough. Thanks for getting back to me Mesomorph- hasnt ever happened, was getting concerned

**Mesomorphyl** · 10-19-2005, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Transend

I should expect to be contacted by them? Should i have used fake info? I thought that the 'college friend' deal would have been good enough. Thanks for getting back to me Mesomorph- hasnt ever happened, was getting concerned

No they will not contact you... They will ask when you are talking to an agent, then give a general description. They did this on orders over 500 bucks so I am not sure what this means. Maybe the reciever is flagged. I would try and contact the source before continuing.

**Transend** · 10-19-2005, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

No they will not contact you... They will ask when you are talking to an agent, then give a general description. They did this on orders over 500 bucks so I am not sure what this means. Maybe the reciever is flagged. I would try and contact the source before continuing.

Thats what i keep thinking. Two questions- 1) suppose I have the ability to have the transfer sent without any problems from a WU agent (would the 'flagging' still get me into trouble?) 2) Since its no interest to the source if i get problems on my side, If i conclude that he is flagged- should i just drop them?

**Transend** · 10-19-2005, 09:21 AM

If the company is instating a flagging system and so forth, is WU still safe to use?

**Phreak101** · 10-19-2005, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Transend

If the company is instating a flagging system and so forth, is WU still safe to use?

Greece is not a terrorist country. Neither are the majority of countries that I would imagine people order their gear from, so I can't see a reason as to why there would be any kind of red flagging.

WU is also a private company, and I don't know many companies that want to lay their books and business activity wide open for the government to monitor. I'd be willing to bet it was nothing.

It's funny u mention this b/c I actually went into a WU office to send $$ for my buddy, and it went smoothly.

Good luck!

**BigLittleTim** · 10-19-2005, 09:28 AM

Your source probably has more than one recipient who receives money for him at Western Union pick-ups. Contact him and arrange to get another name at another Western Union location, in case this one is contaminated. Then send the cash through a W.U. office instead of putting it on your credit card over the internet.

The "War on Terrorism" is the excuse the government has been waiting for. Just wait 'til they ban all cash transactions. No more drug deals, no more unreported income, no more privacy. EVERYTHING you buy will be tracable back to you. Oh, brave new world.

(If terrorism didn't exist, the U.S. government would have had to invent it.)

BigLittleTim

**oldman** · 10-19-2005, 09:32 AM

I use WU all the time.. Not to buy steroids but I use it to send money all over the world for sub-contractors that do programming work for my company. Anytime I send money to someone new I have to call WU and they just verify that I know who I am sending the money too and I say Yes plain and simple. I have never been denied sending money to any country including Asia. Now I did not know if I would use WU to buy drugs since you have to register your CC and have a valid phone # because they do spot check calls every once in a while on new money being sent. I have probably sent $10,000 total in the past year or so and never had an issue.

The problem might have been on your case if the person you were sending to has been flagged as a problem and they want you to do it person.

Oldman

**Deez101** · 10-19-2005, 09:33 AM

Man, that would freak me out. I worry so much that sometimes I worry about worrying.

**BigLittleTim** · 10-19-2005, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Phreak101

WU is also a private company, and I don't know many companies that want to lay their books and business activity wide open for the government to monitor. I'd be willing to bet it was nothing.

Private companies who are taxed and do business under the laws of the United States will do anything the N.S.C. tells them to do. We are at war.

The telephone companies, couriers (Fed. Ex., U.P.S., etc.), internet providers, banks, libraries, universities, bookstores, Western Union, as well as the U.S. Post Office, all do what the N.S.C. tells them to do, or else.

I really wish they would drop the hypocracy and just publicly declare war on the American People.

**Mesomorphyl** · 10-19-2005, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by BigLittleTim

Private companies who are taxed and do business under the laws of the United States will do anything the N.S.C. tells them to do. We are at war.

The telephone companies, couriers (Fed. Ex., U.P.S., etc.), internet providers, banks, libraries, universities, bookstores, Western Union, as well as the U.S. Post Office, all do what the N.S.C. tells them to do, or else.

I really wish they would drop the hypocracy and just publicly declare war on the American People.

I almost busted his ass but noticed you already did... E-gold had to start reporting(via patriot act) so the government could track the information... I wish people would wake up and see the dangers to our liberties and freedoms we are facing.

**ZIA1** · 10-19-2005, 09:56 AM

Biglittletim, I should remind you that this is an AAS forum. Making political comments is just asking for trouble. Stick to AAS discussions.

**BOBBY D** · 10-19-2005, 09:57 AM

The "War on Terrorism" is the excuse the government has been waiting for. Just wait 'til they ban all cash transactions. No more drug deals, no more unreported income, no more privacy. EVERYTHING you buy will be tracable back to you. Oh, brave new world.

(If terrorism didn't exist, the U.S. government would have had to invent it.)

BigLittleTim[/QUOTE]

This is the fu***** worst that can happen. i never heard about banning currency, until now. biglittletim, i sent u a pm cause i want to know more about this shit. talk about BIG BROTHER WATCHING.

**Phreak101** · 10-19-2005, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

I almost busted his ass but noticed you already did... E-gold had to start reporting(via patriot act) so the government could track the information... I wish people would wake up and see the dangers to our liberties and freedoms we are facing.

Funding companies and clearinghouses have been reporting via patriot act regarding activites of RED FLAG COUNTRIES (ie terrorist countries and sovereign nations with easy access to US immigration), not to other countries like Greece, Spain, etc......watch who's ass your trying to "bust" please tough guy, I do this shit for a living. There is a legal and judicial process to investigating a company, this isn't China.

You guys are making outlandish claims with no evidence here, so let's not turn this into a political rant..why offend people? Your opinion is your opinion but don't go throwing around a bunch of big brother rants and raves when people are asking for serious advice.

Besides, the last thing we need is a poiltical argument among a bunch of aggressive, juiced up bodybuilders.....

**ZIA1** · 10-19-2005, 10:23 AM

Like your freedom? Then realize that people are trying to steal it from you and it aint the U.S. government. The government needs to take protective measures to secure Americans...that might mean changes for a while. Remember, like it or not, AAS are illegal so don't bitch if you struggle to get your gear b/c the government is trying to track terrorists. Watch who you send $$ to and be smarter about it. The gov aint out to bust someone trying to mail order a small package for personal use but if you play it stupid then you will get busted.

**ZIA1** · 10-19-2005, 10:24 AM

Phreak101, I couldn't agree more.

**Mesomorphyl** · 10-19-2005, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Phreak101

watch who's ass your trying to "bust" please tough guy, I do this shit for a living. There is a legal and judicial process to investigating a company, this isn't China.

Obviously you are blind. They do not need to go through the judicial process if they just put a spin on it. Like "we thought it was a terrorist activity"... This isn't china but it sure is moving toward stalin russia.

Originally Posted by AIZ

Like your freedom? Then realize that people are trying to steal it from you and it aint the U.S. government. The government needs to take protective measures to secure Americans...that might mean changes for a while. Yes exactly like your freedom. You have been brain washed by corporate controlled media. The government isn't trying to take liberties, they have via the patriot act and if you think these changes are only for awhile, you have not opened your eyes.

The gov aint out to bust someone trying to mail order a small package for personal use but if you play it stupid then you will get busted.They won't? That is news to me as well as news to anyone who has ever gone through the system for only having small amounts for personal use... Geesh guy get a clue.

I answered you in bold.

**Phreak101** · 10-19-2005, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Obviously you are blind. They do not need to go through the judicial process if they just put a spin on it. Like "we thought it was a terrorist activity"... This isn't china but it sure is moving toward stalin russia.

I answered you in bold.

The fact you need to throw an insult in every time you respond to our posts with just another flagrant opinion with no actual facts really goes a long way in showing how intelligent you really are

Can we close this thread?

**Jack87** · 10-19-2005, 11:29 AM

Never EVER use the online service...

Always go to an agent... If you want to know more just PM me

Originally Posted by Transend

I had an issue with WU last night that I wanted everyones input on. I used the online method (used my real info for account setup- stupid, i know). Wanted to send 200eu to greece. I ended up with a trasaction denied page and a request to call an 800# to give more info to put the thing through. I call and get hung up on. Second call i get a lady who asks if im sending to greece- i say yes. Then she asks if i know the person- i say yeah, its a friend from college. She pauses for a few seconds and tell me that my transaction will not be completed tonight and that I can still send cash via an agent. I didnt ask as to why for fear that it would make a 'casual' transaction issue turn into something serious.

What do you guys think? recipient is flagged? Am i at any risk? Ive read threads but nothing with WU and something like this. Thought id try the net of knowledge- any thoughts?

**Mesomorphyl** · 10-19-2005, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Phreak101

The fact you need to throw an insult in every time you respond to our posts with just another flagrant opinion with no actual facts really goes a long way in showing how intelligent you really are

Can we close this thread?

Quit crying. No we will not close this thread.

**Phreak101** · 10-19-2005, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Quit crying. No we will not close this thread.

Drama queens abound

**MuckDog** · 10-19-2005, 12:24 PM

i had the same issue yesterday in sending money via WU online. lets say this will be the last time i do so that way. i was put on hold for a few mins and then asked if i knew the receipient and i replied yes. i was then advised to not complete the transaction as there has been some fraud involved with his account and WU is not responsible for items paid for not recieved. again - this will be the last time i do things this way. very shady and def stupid on my part.

**Transend** · 10-19-2005, 12:29 PM

WHOA WHOA!!!!

everyone calm down, were all friends here. I was just a little scared at how odd these guys were acting, thought maybe WU had changed a little since the last time i used it. Didnt know my little scaredy-cat inquiry was gonna spark off into this. Thanks to everyone who had something to add. Its good to know i can still count on the site when i think i stepped in something. All views respected, hallowed is AR.

**Mesomorphyl** · 10-19-2005, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Phreak101

Drama queens abound

I am not mad about you getting upset for not understanding the patriot act... Our own congressmen and senators are just now asking what they did, the ACLU(

I know) is finding things that are outrageous. Again stop crying about your lack of knowledge, and quit perpetuating your drama.

**ZIA1** · 10-19-2005, 05:48 PM

Meso, The ACLU always finds something outrageous! Senators and congressmen were asking questions about the act long before it was even passed...nothing new there. Global terror is the enemy not the Patriotic Act. It seems you are the one who doesn't understand what the "act" is all about.

**powerliftmike** · 10-19-2005, 05:52 PM

Do you really think credit card fraud is going to help? I hope not. Use real info. I had trouble with the online crap too, as I couldn't verify the card over the phone (in their eyes). Just get some cash and go to a local store, no problems; and in my case it is actually cheaper that way.

**Transend** · 10-19-2005, 07:30 PM

The store was working fine with me. I just dont want to go try attempt number two if the recipient is flagged. Ive seen WU come in after people suspected of dealing, so i know that they do have consequences. I might just be a small issue in the whole picture of things, but i def dont want to test out the water.

**Mesomorphyl** · 10-19-2005, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by AIZ

Meso, The ACLU always finds something outrageous! Senators and congressmen were asking questions about the act long before it was even passed...nothing new there. Global terror is the enemy not the Patriotic Act. It seems you are the one who doesn't understand what the "act" is all about.

Everything in bold I am going to prove you wrong beyond a reasonable doubt. This is all obtainable right off the net. I think you do not even understand what is happening in todays world, you are what I call "sheeple".

The patriot act is a multi-bill/multi-acts all rolled into a package that if voted against those that were pressing for it could say “you are un-American” or “you are against patriotism”; most of these previously bills and acts were thrown out of the house for being unconstitutional and infringed upon civil liberties.

So we had September 11th by October 24th the patriot act was presented to the house and they were asked to vote on it that day then October 25th moved to the senate and was voted on with only one person standing up and saying “we have not even read this and we are going to pass it?” he was trashed in the media at the prompting of Karl Rove, Bushes top advisor, then the patriot act was on the presidents table and signed into law on October 26th.

When did anyone have time to read this? Really… I have some more info off the net.

Public opinion

According to The Gallup Organization, the public is wary but ignorant about the USA PATRIOT Act. In January 2002, 47% of Americans wanted their government to stop terrorism even if it reduced civil liberties. By November 2003 this number had dropped to 31%, indicating either increasing concern about expanding government powers or reduced fear of terrorism. From 2003 to 2004, nearly a quarter of all Americans felt that the USA PATRIOT Act went too far, while most felt that it was either just right or did not go far enough. By 2005, the people polled were statistically divided half and half for and against the USA PATRIOT Act.

At the same time, only half of the people polled claimed to know some of the provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act. After the 2004 elections, the number of people claiming to know some of the provisions fell sharply.

Gallup Poll statistics from [14] and [15]:
Does the USA PATRIOT Act go too far?
Date Too Far Not Too Far*
Aug 25-26 2003 22% 69%
Nov 10-12 2003 25% 65%
Feb 16-17 2004 26% 64%
Apr 13-16 2005 45% 49%
*Responded as it is a Necessary Tool, About Right, or Not Far Enough
What do you know about the USA PATRIOT Act?
Date A Lot Some Not Much Nothing
Aug 25-26 2003 10% 40% 25% 25%
Nov 10-12 2003 12% 41% 25% 22%
Feb 16-17 2004 13% 46% 27% 14%
Apr 13-16 2005 13% 28% 28% 29%
Another poll indicates that 52% of Americans are concerned that their civil liberties are being infringed by the administration's war on terrorism.

Outside the Act's scope

The stated purpose of the Act is to "deter and punish terrorist acts in the United States and around the world, to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, and for other purposes." One criticism of the Act is that "other purposes" often includes the detection and prosecution of non-terrorist alleged future crimes.

Using the Act to investigate alleged potential money-laundering activities
In Las Vegas, police used the USA PATRIOT Act to subpoena two stockbrokers for evidence in a public official corruption case against a strip club owner (who ultimately pled guilty).

The USA PATRIOT Act, Section 314 is a provision to investigate money-laundering activities. Accordingly, the federal investigators' actions did not exceed the authority of the Act. [17]

This includes money transactions through independent fund transferring companies.

Using the Act to investigate alleged potential drug traffickers

In September 2003, the New York Times reported on a case of the USA PATRIOT Act being used to investigate alleged potential drug traffickers without probable cause. The article also mentions a study by Congress that referenced hundreds of cases where the USA PATRIOT Act was used to investigate non-terrorist alleged future crimes. The New York Times reports that these non-terrorist investigations are relevant because President Bush and several members of Congress stated that the purpose the USA PATRIOT Act was that of investigating and preempting potential terrorist acts. Their statement is not consistent with the wording of the act, however, or with the non-terrorist alleged future crimes that are investigated and prosecuted under the act.

Now I will show other countries, including Stalin Russia and Nazi Germany, Acts that were similar to the patriot act. You should be scared to death.

Analysis of comparisons to historical laws

• Reichstag Fire Decree, Germany, enacted February 28, 1933 after the Reichstag fire

The Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State (Reichstag Fire Decree) and subsequent Enabling Act that empowered Adolf Hitler to seize control of Germany are often compared to the USA PATRIOT Act.[29] The similarities are that both were passed after an act of terrorism, both were passed quickly, both limited civil liberties with the expressed purpose of protecting the people, and both were used in excess of their expressed purpose. The English translation of Article 1 of the DRPPPS states that the decree intends "...to restrict the rights to personal freedom [habeas corpus], freedom of speech, including the freedom of the press, the freedom to organize and assemble, the privacy of letters, mail, telegraphs and telephones, order searches and confiscations and restrict property, even if this is not otherwise provided for by present law." The USA Patriot Act is not as explicit about its intentions, often wording the act in terms of what civil liberties and safeguards people have left.

The Reichstag Fire Decree differs from the USA PATRIOT Act in that the DRPPPS more explicitly seizes states rights and associates the death penalty with many offenses. Additionally, some of the USA PATRIOT Act has a sunset provision, whereas the set expiration date of the Enabling Act was dependent upon a succession of power, and the DRPPPS did not have a set expiration date. The USA PATRIOT Act and the Enabling Act were both passed by a freely elected Congress, whereas the DRPPPS was a "emergency decree" by the German president made at the behest of Chancellor Hitler.

Although the USA PATRIOT Act differs in some respects, the Reichstag Fire Decree and subsequent Enabling Act are cited as examples of how giving up civil liberties in times of crisis can be used to legally overthrow a government's constitution from within.

• Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 (AEDPA)
The AEDPA is the direct predecessor of the PATRIOT Act and contains many provisions that were maintained and expanded by the PATRIOT Act, including those relating to terrorism, FISA, immigration, and so on. See David Cole's book, listed below in the critics section.
• The Sedition Act of 1918 is sometimes compared to the USA PATRIOT Act because of the latter's perceived chilling effect on free speech. However, the Sedition Act had the explicit and specific purpose of quelling anti-government speech while the nation was at war. The Sedition Act was repealed in 1921.
• The Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798. The Alien Act allowed the President to arrest, imprison, and deport "dangerous" immigrants on mere suspicion of "treasonable or secret machinations against the government." If a deported alien returned, the President could imprison him for as long as he thought "the public safety may require." The Sedition Act made it unlawful for any person to write, print, publish, or speak anything "false, scandalous and malicious" about the government, either Congress or the Executive, if it was done with the intent to defame or to bring the government "into contempt or disrepute," or to excite the hatred of the people against the United States. See "Repeal the PATRIOT Act" by Jennifer Van Bergen, listed below in critics section.
• COINTELPRO is thought of as similiar to the USA PATRIOT act in that it was allowed because of fear of an enemy (the Soviet Union in this case) and permitted actions that would not be acceptable during peacetime. The primary simililarity in content was that invasion of privacy could be carried out in secrecy without probable cause if the investigator felt that it was necessary for national security.

**ZIA1** · 10-20-2005, 12:18 AM

Meso, all you have proved is one side of the "act". Now, I respect your opinion but this thread must end. Enough politics on this forum. There are a million ways to rebut your reply but this is not the place. I will not take part in any more political talk. I prefer to hear what you have to say on AAS. Now, drop the politics.

**Mesomorphyl** · 10-20-2005, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by AIZ

Meso, all you have proved is one side of the "act". Now, I respect your opinion but this thread must end. Enough politics on this forum. There are a million ways to rebut your reply but this is not the place. I will not take part in any more political talk. I prefer to hear what you have to say on AAS. Now, drop the politics.

I will stop after one more bump for my other friend(yes I am saying you are my friend) Phreak101.

By the way I got that off wikepedia(sp?)... that is an on line encylopedia, so this was not one sided like the extreme left could show. This was un-biased. So please I urge you to look into this yourself. I urge the american people to look into this in more detail.

**1819** · 10-20-2005, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by buff87

Never EVER use the online service...

Always go to an agent... If you want to know more just PM me

good advice. and if an agent ever questions you tell them the money is going to a courier for an internet casino.

**Mesomorphyl** · 10-20-2005, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by 1819

good advice. and if an agent ever questions you tell them the money is going to a courier for an internet casino.

Excellent! Does that mean you do not have to give a description of the receipient?

**1819** · 10-20-2005, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Excellent! Does that mean you do not have to give a description of the receipient?

i have very rarely been asked and on the few occasions i was i just told them internet gambling and the name was enough. western union is a very popular way for funding those things as many credit card companies will not approve the transactions anymore. the western union agents seem to know this and when they see money being sent to greece or the canary islands or some out of the way place they havnt questioned me, or any of my bro's, many times.

**shortie** · 10-20-2005, 08:32 AM

The Patriot act is at the local level a spy on your neighbor program, I know, as part of my job I report these "suspicious activities/transactions". The primary concern I have with the patriot act is it's interest in the movement of cash, wtf business is it of uncle sam if I have $100 or $100000 cash stuffed in my matress, it my fvcking money and my matress for that matter. When a government becomes interested in controlling the flow of currency in a society it is a major step toward the elimination of personal rights, Meso cites some fine examples of wonderful world leaders that did the same. And as far as the argument that they are controlling illegal money laundering by terrorists, B.S., we found out in the 9/11 hearings that the government new we had terrorists in America, who and where, but they were not allowed to implement this knowledge due to legislation regarding foreign intel and domestic intell from sharing info(thank lawyers). If we already know who they are, and aren't willing to act what does it matter where they get their money.

As far as the WU thing goes, I go in person, use a fake name and address and never go over $500, if I have a big order I break it up. And it is amazing to me how many old college buddies I have that are short on cash in a foreign country. LOL

**Phreak101** · 10-20-2005, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

I will stop after one more bump for my other friend(yes I am saying you are my friend) Phreak101.

By the way I got that off wikepedia(sp?)... that is an on line encylopedia, so this was not one sided like the extreme left could show. This was un-biased. So please I urge you to look into this yourself. I urge the american people to look into this in more detail.

I appreciate what appears to be your legitimate concern for the Patriot Act, and I DO agree with you that it may have been rushed into legislation due to the hysteria of 9/11, but we'll just have to agree to disagree about everything else.

On another note GO WHITE SOX!!!

**Jerzey** · 10-20-2005, 10:09 AM

I'm not reading all of this but WU online is just like using your credit card.... the reason to use WU is avoid tracking info... therefore, take the extra time and go into a WU location and send it with CASH.

**ZIA1** · 10-20-2005, 10:35 AM

MESO, I hooked you up with a rebut to your wikipedia reply on the "act". It's in the politics forum under your thread "The Patriot Act... steroids , WU, and money transfers".

**Transend** · 10-20-2005, 12:46 PM

Settled - always send in cash with WU and fake the info. But again, if this guys name is flagged is there any risk to do a second attempt with cash?

**Jack87** · 10-20-2005, 12:59 PM

Smart man... Sounds like you have more to share, but I wouldn't NOT on
any open board...

Originally Posted by shortie

The Patriot act is at the local level a spy on your neighbor program, I know, as part of my job I report these "suspicious activities/transactions". The primary concern I have with the patriot act is it's interest in the movement of cash, wtf business is it of uncle sam if I have $100 or $100000 cash stuffed in my matress, it my fvcking money and my matress for that matter.