bridging???

**physique** · 05-15-2002, 08:12 PM

after i come off my cycle of prop,enthate,winny would it be wise to take anavar with my clomid???

would like to use var for 10 weeks before my bulk up cycle.
justr to keep my strength up and stay a little hard in the summer.

is this possible???

**big N** · 05-15-2002, 08:20 PM

bridging guys honestly is there such hting as bridging ?sk*?by taking var with clomid your trying to bring back your nat test levels but at the same time supreesing the hpta .howas that work?the only effective way to bridge is with GH bro.the whole bridging thing is more or less of a myth

**samoth** · 05-15-2002, 08:21 PM

Ditto on what SK said... and dont take any steroid with clomid, it will render it useless.

**Dizzy** · 05-15-2002, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by sk*

Small dosses of ox or primo won't shut you down.

I disagree...2.5mg of ox has been shown to shut down HPTA.

**Lush** · 05-15-2002, 08:37 PM

And from alot of recent threads it sounds like a little d-bol in the morning won't shut you down either.

**big N** · 05-15-2002, 09:38 PM

no ,like dizzy said,an its not rarely either if it doesnt then that mean his resceptors arent even agknowledge it therefor beeing useless cause u need more and if u do up the ox then it will supress the hpta .so like i said the only effective and real way to to do it is with GH.oh and lush u said dboll wont either are u kidding me bro??common man!do nu realise mg per mg how potent that stuff is?

**Dizzy** · 05-15-2002, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by sk*

Very rarely, most people can handle as much as 25mg. You gotta know yourself.

You know guys that have done that much ox as a bridge? Had their test levels checked and all that? Or have you seen some studies?

I mean...I know when my nat test comes back. I can tell. But if your taking anavar ...that might skew things a bit. You would need to get a checkup.

**Lush** · 05-15-2002, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by big N
no ,like dizzy said,an its not rarely either if it doesnt then that mean his resceptors arent even agknowledge it therefor beeing useless cause u need more and if u do up the ox then it will supress the hpta .so like i said the only effective and real way to to do it is with GH.oh and lush u said dboll wont either are u kidding me bro??common man!do nu realise mg per mg how potent that stuff is?

Big N,
yeah but it's got a short half life...

here's a good thread on it.. http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=15559

i know squat about biology- so i won't even attempt to debate on this one though.

but I have done 10mg/day of d-bol in between cycles and I did find it -A. worked and -B. didn't shut me down (got no test results or anything to back that up though and C. after stopping the 10mg/day I didn't lose anything. So for me it was pretty much all I could ask for in a bridge.

**Ajax** · 05-15-2002, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by physique
after i come off my cycle of prop,enthate,winny would it be wise to take anavar with my clomid???

would like to use var for 10 weeks before my bulk up cycle.
justr to keep my strength up and stay a little hard in the summer.

is this possible???

No. Taking the Anavar will supress your natural testosterone production, which is waht you are taking the Clomid to restore. The anavar will prevent your natural test. production form going back online.

An anaolgy: you are trying to make ice (testosterone), so you put a put of boiling water in the refrigerator, with a hot plate underneath it (anavar). Will you get ice? No!

**Tapout** · 05-15-2002, 10:17 PM

var will shut you down and loads receptors do not bridge with var
but BIG N dbol am only does not shut down system
it was proven on a experiment on olympic lifters who took 100mg dbol per day am only and natural test did not shut down--as dbol has a half life of about 4 hours your natural test releases at night. you are right dbol is potent but this does work i know a number of people personally and a couple of people from another board who experimented with this with excellent results and no shut down

it gives you a anabolic effect to maintain your gains and a t night your system produces cause dbol out and not traceable

i am doing it myself as my own experiment--to say personally it works
juice junkie swears by it

**samoth** · 05-15-2002, 10:24 PM

And from alot of recent threads it sounds like a little d-bol in the morning won't shut you down either

Thats BS until someone shows me some research studies. There are documented studies showing 20mgs/day of methandrostenolone to decrease endogeneous testosterone production by either 40 or 50% (dont have the book on me at the monent).
And by the way, ALL anabolic steroids supress the HPTA. Theres no such thing as a free ride...
Edit: Hey Tapout how about citing that research? I would definetly like to read that one! 100mgs/day?

**Lush** · 05-15-2002, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by samoth

Thats BS until someone shows me some research studies. There are documented studies showing 20mgs/day of methandrostenolone to decrease endogeneous testosterone production by either 40 or 50% (dont have the book on me at the monent).
And by the way, ALL anabolic steroids supress the HPTA. Theres no such thing as a free ride...
Edit: Hey Tapout how about citing that research? I would definetly like to read that one! 100mgs/day?

Samoth- check the link in one of my posts above- gives a quote from some study about 100mg/day of d-bol. (although I would like to see the whole reposrt... Anybody got a link on that?)

**Tapout** · 05-15-2002, 10:36 PM

samoth ill ask juice junkie where articles are
i know they exsist i read at least 4 of them before doing it myself and i am convinced
juice junkie posted about 1 month ago about this subject with all the research in link form for everybody to read

**samoth** · 05-15-2002, 10:43 PM

Interesting... and you HAD to give me this stuff to research DURING finals week? Grrrrrr

Definetly worth looking into... I have seen both sides of the coin now...
Edit: Already got some sites to work with, thanks!

**Tapout** · 05-15-2002, 10:47 PM

believe me bro if i was not convinced it works i would not say it-- to many big bros on this board dont want enemies
let me know what you find

**Dizzy** · 05-15-2002, 11:29 PM

Here is the link to Juice Junkies thread

http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=15559

**Dizzy** · 05-15-2002, 11:33 PM

Here is a study on anavar . It is on a younger group. But as you can see they only use 2.5mg.

Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes.

DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial.

PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin , SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures.

RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months.

CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.

**samoth** · 05-15-2002, 11:34 PM

The Lancet, 1976:
Interesting... though it does not specify that the 100mgs was a single dose. Nor do they state any specific times [of the day] in which they tested the subjects. Hervey et al. states, " Although the weight and body-composition changes may demonstrate an anabolic action of methandione in man, they may alternatively have been caused by an increase in intracellular fluid, and the question of anabolic action therefore remains open." It further states, "... the results did not support the belief that anabolic steroids increase strength and performance." Moreover, "...the improvement when the steroid had been given was not significantly greater than that over the control period."
There are also other references to studies which had shown the administration of anabolic steroids to have no effect when compared to the control.
Hmmm.... any one else have any studies?

**Dizzy** · 05-15-2002, 11:39 PM

No one said there was a solid study in the thread....just some bros who bodybuild saying they have researched it and plan on trying it. Lighten up.

They mentioned the thread...and I thought some open minded people would like to see it.

I think I have seen a study on dbol in the am. I will look for it. But I'm not saying its gospel by any means...my point was the anavar .

**samoth** · 05-15-2002, 11:48 PM

No one said there was a solid study in the thread....just some bros who bodybuild saying they have researched it and plan on trying it. Lighten up.

Lighten up? I thought we were having a scientific debate, using medical research to defend our positions. My apologies if you were offended

(I'm still interested in the subject however, so everyone else feel free to post your views, etc.

)

**Dizzy** · 05-15-2002, 11:54 PM

Sorry....misunderstood your last statement there. No apology necessary. Just letting you know that link wasn't intended to be hard scientific data. LOL. Yet it was analyzed as being so.

**samoth** · 05-16-2002, 09:34 AM

Oooohhh I thought that specific study was the basis for the 'dbol in AM' theory lol. Still leaves the question.... where did this 'dbol in AM theory' come from??

**Dizzy** · 05-16-2002, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by sk*
Numerous people have bridged with 25mg ox (even higher) and nothing happened to their htpa. They were not direct studies, but people from elitefitness who have been around for a while. You can do a search there and see their results. However, I do know that very low dosages of var have been known to shut you down.

Cool....yeah, I figured maybe thats what you meant. Thanks for clarifying that sk*. I'll do some searches over at elite.

**big N** · 05-16-2002, 11:00 AM

well there have been studies that ox and dboll will supress the htpa but u guys keep saying that people have tried it and it didnt ,with no scientific evidence,maybe that one person is one in a million.theres only one person to ask DR EVIL !im sure he will conquer with me.

**Ajax** · 05-17-2002, 04:14 AM

Scientific studies are not always 100% correct, but I'll take a medical study that has been critically reviewed over the advice of "some guy (that I don't know personally) on XXX board's" advice any time!

**samoth** · 05-17-2002, 12:06 PM

Agreed Ajax... it is better to argue with controlled medical research studies than to argue with our personal results, which are not controlled and often times biased... (thats not to totally discount personal experiences however).
Then again, there were all those medical studies in the 50s/60s that showed anabolic steroids to have no effect whatsoever, LOL, I'm sure some of you know what I'm referring to

**Dizzy** · 05-17-2002, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by samoth
Agreed Ajax... it is better to argue with controlled medical research studies than to argue with our personal results, which are not controlled and often times biased... (thats not to totally discount personal experiences however).
Then again, there were all those medical studies in the 50s/60s that showed anabolic steroids to have no effect whatsoever, LOL, I'm sure some of you know what I'm referring to