Begginer Cycle

**chris210** · 02-03-2006, 01:22 PM

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**legobricks** · 02-03-2006, 01:31 PM

Yes, You may be over training bro. What does your diet look like? Also, you dont grow in the gym. You grow when you rest. My buddy does the same thing as you and is so f*ckin small its not even funny. He is ripped though.

**Magnum II** · 02-03-2006, 01:50 PM

Agree with Legobricks on the over-training issue Bro. The body needs rest as much as it needs calories to grow. I'd recommend reducing the number of training days and definitely train a different body part each day. Give that muscle tissue time to regenerate.

Then, if you truly are a hard-gainer. A cycle of 500 mg/wk of a long-acting ester of Testosterone (Enathate or Cypionate ) should produce good results without much danger of bad side effects. Inject 250 mg every three days,keep an anti-e on hand just in case of sides and design your PCT carefully. You should make some significant, keepable gains.

Good luck

**chris210** · 02-03-2006, 02:16 PM

I've been told that before, but I think I'm giving each muscle group enough time to rest. My main concern is not with growing. I'm about as big as i want to be. My main concern is physical. I carry a lot of weight in my upper chect and Abs. I would like to lean out, (have a six pack), ect.

I don't think it's possible to add any more cardio to my regiment. I'd be lying if i said my diet couldn't be a little better. I have been guilty of having a beers on the weekends.

I was thinking something along the lines of Winny..... My concern with the Winny is the liver toxicity. I don't want to inject EOD if possible. I've heard that you can get Winny in larger quanity than the 2mg x 20 blister packs.

**flexin** · 02-03-2006, 02:22 PM

diet and cardio are a must, its hard to have all your abs to show

**H-Tizz** · 02-03-2006, 02:29 PM

I know this may sound cheesy but look into body-for-life. The meal plans they set up are easy to follow and work excellent. Do cardio on an empty stomach in the morning as well. Since your body will have virtually no sugar to burn, it will start burning fat right away. Steroids are mostly to get stronger and or bigger, not burn fat although tren acetate will but you don't want to take that yet.

**Magnum II** · 02-03-2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by chris210

I've been told that before, but I think I'm giving each muscle group enough time to rest. My main concern is not with growing. I'm about as big as i want to be. My main concern is physical. I carry a lot of weight in my upper chect and Abs. I would like to lean out, (have a six pack), ect.

I don't think it's possible to add any more cardio to my regiment. I'd be lying if i said my diet couldn't be a little better. I have been guilty of having a beers on the weekends.

I was thinking something along the lines of Winny..... My concern with the Winny is the liver toxicity. I don't want to inject EOD if possible. I've heard that you can get Winny in larger quanity than the 2mg x 20 blister packs.

Well, my personal favorite med for "leaning out" is T3. However, it can be very wasting. Without an AS in the mix, you lose LBM. I get great results by running T3 with a long-acting test. Result: dramatically lowered body fat and addition of some muscle...the ideal combination as far as I can see.

**legobricks** · 02-03-2006, 02:40 PM

Ok, first winny does NOT burn fat. It hardens up the muscle that is already there. I dont know how many thread there were posted, but do a search on it and youll see. Also, For your abs to show, change your exercises. Ive found out that doing abs for 2 years, i see no change. Ive been doing weighted crunches with heavey weight for this past week and see my abs now. Now call me crazy but i think that works. Over training your body will produce no results. And if you train each muscle group once per week, that helps too. Checking your diet will also help you lose some BF. personally i am leaning out like a MOFO and i just changed some of my exercises up. Check out the exercise forum and search for whatever you need. No AAS for you!

**chris210** · 02-03-2006, 02:41 PM

Maybe I should restate that.. I'm certainly not against adding muscle, I just meant to say, I don't really have a problem getting strong.... Just lean. If while on the cycle I add 10 lbs of LBS, that would be an added bonus. Has anyone ever ran strictly Winny? I know that's a rookie question, but I'm kind of limited with resources.... Also, I may not be able to get proper pct, so I'm a little concerned about aromtization. (that's probably not spelled right). This will be my first cycle, so I want to do it right.

**chris210** · 02-03-2006, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by legobricks

Ok, first winny does NOT burn fat. It hardens up the muscle that is already there. I dont know how many thread there were posted, but do a search on it and youll see. Also, For your abs to show, change your exercises. Ive found out that doing abs for 2 years, i see no change. Ive been doing weighted crunches with heavey weight for this past week and see my abs now. Now call me crazy but i think that works. Over training your body will produce no results. And if you train each muscle group once per week, that helps too. Checking your diet will also help you lose some BF. personally i am leaning out like a MOFO and i just changed some of my exercises up. Check out the exercise forum and search for whatever you need. No AAS for you!

OOOhhhhhh..... Dont tell me that bro..... I'm crazy jacked up about starting my first cycle. I've been goin natural years, and I think I'm at the right age to do a little "enhancing".

**legobricks** · 02-03-2006, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by chris210

Maybe I should restate that.. I'm certainly not against adding muscle, I just meant to say, I don't really have a problem getting strong.... Just lean. If while on the cycle I add 10 lbs of LBS, that would be an added bonus. Has anyone ever ran strictly Winny? I know that's a rookie question, but I'm kind of limited with resources.... Also, I may not be able to get proper pct, so I'm a little concerned about aromtization. (that's probably not spelled right). This will be my first cycle, so I want to do it right.

Dude. Listen.

Winny will not lean you out! And the side effects of it being ran alone are enough to make most stop! If you are going to do a cycle, do a test only cycle. If ya wanna gain LBM you going to most likely shoot the test every day to every other day. Not real good for a beginner cycle unless you dont mind some pain.

Now, DONT RUN ONLY WINNY!!! Just....dont do it man! please, you will thank us later for not doing it! Anyways, cut back your training to 5 days, take the weekend off. Make sure your getting at least 8 hours of sleep per night, check your diet, and drink plenty of water! Changing those things will help you gain LBM.

**SpiderRico** · 02-03-2006, 02:49 PM

you have to give your muslces time to rest and grow if you overtrain them you could be really hurting progress severly.. what is your workout split look like?

**legobricks** · 02-03-2006, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by chris210

OOOhhhhhh..... Dont tell me that bro..... I'm crazy jacked up about starting my first cycle. I've been goin natural years, and I think I'm at the right age to do a little "enhancing".

Yeah, I understand the outright urge to do a cycle, but make sure everything is in check. If your not gaining anything right now, cut back a little bit. It really sounds like overtraining. And yes you CAN overtrain ON-cycle. But if you really are that hard of a gainer, your test levels may be low(just throwing it out there on a limb!) If your going to do a first cycle do it like this:

Test E at 500mg per week. Split it into 2 shots at 250mg on for instance a monday and friday. Also take some nolvadex at 10-20mg per day along side it to help combat gyno problems. Run this for 10-12 weeks. 2 weeks after your last shot start PCT. You will run the nolvadex the entire time including the 2 weeks your waiting to do PCT. PCT can consist of clomid at 100mgs ever day for 4 weeks. Along with it you will need some nolva at 10-20mg per day to help combat any gyno problems you may encounter. I would also throw in some vitamin b6 at 100-200mg per day to help combat any progestrone gyno problems. Good luck, but if you dont have a solid base on you, you will lose most gains at the end. Make sure your getting at least 3000 cals per day as well and the rule of thumb for protien is 1-2g per lb of bodyweight.

**chris210** · 02-03-2006, 03:17 PM

Thanks for all of the advice... I have looked into Test E....... My concern is taking Test without proper PCT at the end.

So let me cut straight to the point. I have access to D-bol and Winny. I have read about taking a cycle of D-bol and Winny, and that there are typicly less problems with gyno, ect. I'm not worried about pins, (i've given a million shots in my line of work). I'm just limited to what I have access to, and the whole "aromitization" thing freaks me out.

So, realisticly..,.. Am I looking at a big problem with no PCT after a small dose Winny, D-bol cycle? If this is just f*cking rediculous, I know I can trust you guys to tell me. (brutal)..

**Magnum II** · 02-03-2006, 03:37 PM

Bro, both Winny and D-Bol are AA17 compounds. Which makes them hard on your liver. That's the first thing that's wrong with this stack. Secondly, that combination will likely make recovery difficult since your ability to produce endogenous test will be hit hard. IMO, neither of those two compounds should ever be run without Test. Your libido may go south for a long time running that stack. I know that others on this board have run this combo and say that they haven't had any problems doing so. However, the vast majority will tell you not to do it.

Just my 2 cents worth...it's your body.