t3,what wil it do to your strength?

[Doc.Sust]

i am in a bit of a bind i am considering taking t3 so i can make my weightclass for a powerlfiting meet. i am only taking test at a very very low dose (going to be droping it to 175mg a wk) will the t3 kill my strength due to its catabolic properties or will the small dose of test protect my strength gains? also i planed on using it only every other 2 wks ,2wks clen , 2wks t3 thann 2 wks of clen and another of t3,and so on and so on, good or bad plan?recomended dose for the t3?all help is appreciated

[Doc.Sust]

bump

[tboney]

The t3 can eat up some muscle. However I think if you are careful about your dosing and pay close attention to your body you should be ok. What are your goals? How much weight are you looking to lose? If you dont have that much to lose you might be able to get away with using just the clen . I have personally had alot of success with keeping my t3 dose conservative. I would not recommend high doses unless you want to drop alot of weight in which case you will have to sacrifice some mass and strength. Keep your protein up and the test you are taking should also help with minimizing the muscle loss. Hope this helps.

[tboney]

maybe consider some var to keep strenght up and weight down.

[Doc.Sust]

no time for var, not at the end of this cycle,

[tboney]

How much time do you have to drop weight?

[Doc.Sust]

6 wks, but the problem is now that i am taking aas i started to gain all the weight i lost again, i was 5 lbs form my goal 2 wks ago, i have kept up the same cardio and diet, now i am 15lbs from my goal

[tboney]

If you have 6 weeks you do have time to try the var to preserve muscle/strength. Some of your weight could be from the water you get with test. Make sure that you have proper pct, maybe some nolva to help with water. Ther is some literature out there that indicates that var can actually help with fat loss. With 6 weeks you can reach your goal.

[HUNTER1]

hey doc, as much advise as you've given me in the workout forum, its nice to try and return the favor. From my understanding it should not hinder your strength gains at all. The increase in TSH will speed up your metabolism allowing your muscles to utilize more protein/carbs/fats at a higher rate. If your protein intake is enough it shouldn't really affect your strength. Also, try using some liquidex to decrease any water retention you may have.

[powerliftmike]

hey doc, as much advise as you've given me in the workout forum, its nice to try and return the favor. From my understanding it should not hinder your strength gains at all. The increase in TSH will speed up your metabolism allowing your muscles to utilize more protein/carbs/fats at a higher rate. If your protein intake is enough it shouldn't really affect your strength. Also, try using some liquidex to decrease any water retention you may have.

Yes, but T3 puts the body into a hypermetabolic state. You literally cant eat enough to counteract it. Clen is diffinently the better option for the powerlifter, however t3, esp at low doses, does have its advantage. One being you can run it thru the meet, b/c its not tested for in a drug test (clen is). This way any thyroid suppression, and subsequent rebound peroid, can occur after the meet.

It is very hard to loose fat without loosing muscle, thats just a biological fact. Your body thinks it will starve. This is why we see BBers using heavy andrognes like trenbolone prior to contest time, in an attempt to preserve as much as possible.

Best of luck with dropping weight.

[tboney]

As I said befor eif you are going to use the t3 if you dose is too high it can burn up some muscle. If you keep your dose conservative you should be ok. TSH measures your t4 hormone activity. T3 is the active thyroid hormone and is much more potent and therefore you need to be more cautious about it. TSH doesnt necessarily indicate the t3 activity in you body.

[Doc.Sust]

hey doc, as much advise as you've given me in the workout forum, its nice to try and return the favor. From my understanding it should not hinder your strength gains at all. The increase in TSH will speed up your metabolism allowing your muscles to utilize more protein/carbs/fats at a higher rate. If your protein intake is enough it shouldn't really affect your strength. Also, try using some liquidex to decrease any water retention you may have.

thanks hunter, i already am using the liquidex to take off the water.my diet is basicaly all protein so i should be good to go

[Doc.Sust]

Yes, but T3 puts the body into a hypermetabolic state. You literally cant eat enough to counteract it. Clen is diffinently the better option for the powerlifter, however t3, esp at low doses, does have its advantage. One being you can run it thru the meet, b/c its not tested for in a drug test (clen is). This way any thyroid suppression, and subsequent rebound peroid, can occur after the meet.

It is very hard to loose fat without loosing muscle, thats just a biological fact. Your body thinks it will starve. This is why we see BBers using heavy andrognes like trenbolone prior to contest time, in an attempt to preserve as much as possible.

Best of luck with dropping weight.

i know mike you are rt, it is impossible to lose fat without losing muscle. i would much rather take the clen, but i am building up an immunity to it, even with benadryl. what would you recomend the t3 dose to use?

[magic32]

So basically your scenario is:

• short term (6wk) period
• with cardio & diet already functioning at optimal levels
• eliminating Clen or Eph as an option
• minus Var due to it's weight gain and your inverse desire.
• no T3 due to muscle/strength loss

If the aforementioned is accurate I'd employ Winny. It's fast acting, not contingent upon Beta receptors, doesn't provide extra aas weight (like Var), but burns fat optimally while simultaneously reducing water and maintaining strength.

M.

[tboney]

Since when does var add weight? Especially if diet and cardio are in check.

[magic32]

SINCE ALWAYS!

You're joking right?

This compound was actually developed to restore patient weight, after serious weight loss trauma, such as that of burn victims, and has been used effectively in maintaining Aids victim's weight. I'm not touting it as "weight gainer", but you'll certainly gain ESPECIALLY with good cardio and diet, high single digits, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE'S TRYING TO AVOID:

Doc Sust - 6 wks, but the problem is now that i am taking aas i started to gain all the weight i lost again, i was 5 lbs form my goal 2 wks ago, i have kept up the same cardio and diet, now i am 15lbs from my goal.

Genuine (real) weight is Var's primary medical purpose. Here are some profile excerpts:

"In fact, 20-80mgs are needed to start halting AIDS related wasting(1) and recovering weight for burn victims"

"In addition, weight gained with ‘var may be nearly permanent too. It might not be much, but you’ll stand a good chance of keeping most of it. In one study, subjects maintained their weight (re)gains from anavar for at least 6 months after cessation (2)!"

"Anavar is great for strength and cutting purposes, but not for bulking or a lot of weight gain. In other words, what I'm saying is that everything you gain will be solid."

M.

[tboney]

Read the profile on var. Weight gain is lean body mass. It is one of the few aas that is known to not put on a lot of mass. Treatment for aids wasting is not relative here.

[tboney]

You dont think there is any weightgain on winny?????

[tboney]

Neither var or winny will put on alot of mass but if you read vars profile you will see documentation regarding fat loss on var.

[mmaximus25]

If only have 6weeks here’s my take.... I wouldn’t recommend the erratic 2 week t3 doses. The shortest cycle of T3 I’d say is 3weeks straight at 25mcg ed or 25mcg 1week, 2week 50mcgs then 3rd week back to 25mcg then lay off 6 weeks.

In your case I would use T3 moderately at 25-50mcgs for 6weeks along with IGF-1 (IGF help use body fat also)and either a tren Ent or tren Ace w/prop or just prop. You need to allow you body to produce its own T2, T3 by laying off afterwards for at least 8-10 weeks. You should maintain a good unsaturated fat intake of at least .5g times your body weight. ( I wouldn't drop all your fat, thats how you will lose your strength)

When I want to get below 6% BF I will drop to .25 to .5g of fat a day. Use your Carbs more so your higher starches as the manipulative portion... moderate carb 1 day 1g x BW, lower carb 2days .5g x BW, higher carb 1day 1.5g -2g x BW... (I do have to note I really only use T3 when consuming above average cals not when dieting down specificly.... 25mcgs is so strong for me if I were to diet down and use T3 I wouldn't have to drop so many cals of FAT.... my issue would be how my diet is maintained after the T3 cycle is over)

I've had great results using T3 without AAS but allowing a shit load of more calories to be consumed. I typically use T3 3 weeks on then 3 weeks off, while off I use Universals Animal cuts... works great for me because of the herbal diuretic in the animal cuts along with the heap load of other metabolic enhancing drugs.

After my current cycle which is 350mg of prop a week and I'm about to start my LR3 IGF-1. I'm going to do a T3, IGF-1, clen , provirion, nolvedex only cycle... the first protion will be part of my PCT but the second half I am going to be intaking close to 6-7k calories a day... 2week 7k cals, then into 2weeks 3k cals, so on and so forth for 10-14 weeks. You dont always need AAS, the anabloic atmosphere starts, is maintained and ends with diet and diet alone. All the other shit is just extra...

good luck bro I know I might not have been much help here...

[tboney]

BTW Winny would be a poor choice for a power lifter due to the fact that alot of people have problems with thier joints etc.

[tboney]

Good input max!

[magic32]

Read the profile on var. Weight gain is lean body mass. It is one of the few aas that is known to not put on a lot of mass. Treatment for aids wasting is not relative here.

Weight gain wether lbm or not is still a hinderance to him, hence Var is inappropriate. He has to meet a certain weight, so he cares about to "Total Weight", not the type of weight gain.

Treatment for Aids is appropriate here, Var was developed to promote total weight gain via lbm.

I'm not here to argue with you. It boils down to this, he was 5lbs over his necessary weight, now he's 15 over. If he takes Var (though he'll lose some much lighter fat) he'll certainly be at least 20 over, which is propelling him in the wrong direction.

M.

[MAXIMA5]

I lost 3-4% bodyfat in 5 weeks on Var alone but gained 5 lbs. Food for thought.

[tboney]

I agree that all aas will put on some weight but I am trying to understand why winny would be any different. It sounds like he is set on doing some kind of aas and from what I know var puts comparatively less weight than the other aas. I reaad in A. Roberts profile of var that it helps with fat loss. I respect what you have to say and dont want to argue either.

[tboney]

What I meant about the relavence of aids related wasting is that with that condition one is dealing with a very accelerated rate of weightloss from muscle, fat, bone density etc. even ligament deterioration.

[magic32]

I agree that all aas will put on some weight but I am trying to understand why winny would be any different. It sounds like he is set on doing some kind of aas and from what I know var puts comparatively less weight than the other aas. I reaad in A. Roberts profile of var that it helps with fat loss. I respect what you have to say and dont want to argue either.

Good to hear we can both illustrate perspectives without bashing.

Yes, Var helps with fat loss but since fat is lighter than muscle compounded by the fact that Var was developed to restore/build lbm, it would be ineffective when “total weight” loss is the objective.

Contrastingly, Winny was not designed for lbm development, but primarily for fat loss, and will incinerate it at a higher rate than Var, thus yielding a lower “total weight”.

The reason they're often compared is because of the end result, which is often aesthetic, and not based on weight restrictions like our scenario.

Take Maxima5's testimony above. He lost 3-4% and actually gained 5lbs, so he looks better and gained muscle. Winny won't do that for you. It's a fat loss specialist, and it’s AA ratio (see below), it has no weight gain significance, that is to say it won’t substantially impact "total weight”.

The Tbol and Var comparison is similar. Tbol, as a compound, doesn't burn any fat, but you ‘tend’ (and this varies with the person) to look better than when using Var, because “looks” are subjective and often correlated, symmetrically speaking, with size. And Tbol is more efficient at generating lbm than Var. Of course this results in a heavier "total weight".

This tells the whole story:
VAR’s Anabolic /Androgenic Ratio (Range): 322-630:24
Winny’s Androgenic/Anabolic Ratio:30:320

M.

[tboney]

Good to know! I think he got some solutions to his question. Enjoyed your point of view, take it easy!!

[Doc.Sust]

great work everyone. wow, cant take the winny either. i have to worry about detection time.

[Doc.Sust]

If only have 6weeks here’s my take.... I wouldn’t recommend the erratic 2 week t3 doses. The shortest cycle of T3 I’d say is 3weeks straight at 25mcg ed or 25mcg 1week, 2week 50mcgs then 3rd week back to 25mcg then lay off 6 weeks.

In your case I would use T3 moderately at 25-50mcgs for 6weeks along with IGF-1 (IGF help use body fat also)and either a tren Ent or tren Ace w/prop or just prop. You need to allow you body to produce its own T2, T3 by laying off afterwards for at least 8-10 weeks. You should maintain a good unsaturated fat intake of at least .5g times your body weight. ( I wouldn't drop all your fat, thats how you will lose your strength)

When I want to get below 6% BF I will drop to .25 to .5g of fat a day. Use your Carbs more so your higher starches as the manipulative portion... moderate carb 1 day 1g x BW, lower carb 2days .5g x BW, higher carb 1day 1.5g -2g x BW... (I do have to note I really only use T3 when consuming above average cals not when dieting down specificly.... 25mcgs is so strong for me if I were to diet down and use T3 I wouldn't have to drop so many cals of FAT.... my issue would be how my diet is maintained after the T3 cycle is over)

I've had great results using T3 without AAS but allowing a shit load of more calories to be consumed. I typically use T3 3 weeks on then 3 weeks off, while off I use Universals Animal cuts... works great for me because of the herbal diuretic in the animal cuts along with the heap load of other metabolic enhancing drugs.

After my current cycle which is 350mg of prop a week and I'm about to start my LR3 IGF-1. I'm going to do a T3, IGF-1, clen , provirion, nolvedex only cycle... the first protion will be part of my PCT but the second half I am going to be intaking close to 6-7k calories a day... 2week 7k cals, then into 2weeks 3k cals, so on and so forth for 10-14 weeks. You dont always need AAS, the anabloic atmosphere starts, is maintained and ends with diet and diet alone. All the other shit is just extra...

good luck bro I know I might not have been much help here...

no that is exactly what i needed you helpred me alot!!! i now exactly how to run it now. low dose 25mcg's for 6 wks keep up with my mil dose of prop and cycle on and off clen every other 2 wks, great post!!thanks again and also thanks to everyone for all the input.

[mmaximus25]

great work everyone. wow, cant take the winny either. i have to worry about detection time.

I don’t know much about power lifting comps in fact I'm going to post this in the Power lifting arena. So please reply there if you’re a competitive Power lifter

I use halo every other week to every 2 weeks when I do my most powerful and heaviest lifts. I've been yakking about DL's in the Power lifter forum.

Do they test right before you walk out to lift... how does it work? Cause 8-10mg of halo allows me to easily add 40-70lbs to any bench and 100-200lb on leg press, squats and deads. This really helps me cause on heavy days I do gut busting drop sets. Let’s get it on

[Doc.Sust]

I don’t know much about power lifting comps in fact I'm going to post this in the Power lifting arena. So please reply there if you’re a competitive Power lifter

I use halo every other week to every 2 weeks when I do my most powerful and heaviest lifts. I've been yakking about DL's in the Power lifter forum.

Do they test right before you walk out to lift... how does it work? Cause 8-10mg of halo allows me to easily add 40-70lbs to any bench and 100-200lb on leg press, squats and deads. This really helps me cause on heavy days I do gut busting drop sets. Let’s get it on

no they usualy test you before or after you are done with all your lifts. but also there are organzations that do not test at all if you are intrested, again, i love halostein, doent effect your weight and gives you great strength. only problem is detection time again

[taiboxa]

i use T3 year round... and only have str sapped from me when i go up to 100mcg's as long as i keep ample carbs in me to keep up glycogen and enuff protein to prevent catabolism during extreme training sessions im A'oK

[Unoid]

hmm while on 60mcg t3 a day while on 500mg test E and 400mg deca , and now finnishing with winny, I've lost fat and gained muscle.
my diet isn't that good either, 3500-4k cals a day on 200grams of protein.

not good diet but I'm seeing results.
also 40mins cardio 3x a week

[Doc.Sust]

idea here is i have to lose weight and keep all the muscle and strength i can.will 25 mcg a day be enough to do this?will i have totake more as time goes on,like clen ?

[taiboxa]

idea here is i have to lose weight and keep all the muscle and strength i can.will 25 mcg a day be enough to do this?will i have totake more as time goes on,like clen?

i would run 50mcg since 25 is really just going to shut you down and keep u normal unless ur metabolic rate is equivalent to a sloth.

i if u wanna drop WEIGHT and keep str... run
clen /tren /win(halo)/t3 thats what i would run 4 weeks out stop clen 1.5 week sout due to half life and its ****'Updness of endurance.
no test lol since bloat will be a significant 5lbs regardless of ester.