Shock Your Receptors???

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 06-11-2002, 09:52 PM

What's up everyone,
I'll get straight to the point. I'm really into steroids , but not as much the adminstration but how it effects the body. I was initially going to do my virgin cycle with 500 mg Sust stacked with 400 mg Deca a week, but with some input from a fellow co-worker/trainer, we came to the logical conclusion that the receptors would be used to the synthetic blends after the third week. I'll be close the the 1000 mg mark (900) each week and recent research has shown that anything over a 1000 takes up all the receptors and it won't allow cortisol to release, theoretically, you could never overtrain? *HMM* So here's the cycle:

Week 1 - 750 mg Sust (3cc's)
Week 2 - 750 mg Sust (3cc's)
Week 3 - 750 mg Sust (3cc's) Nolvadex 10mg EOD
Week 4 - 750 mg Sust (3cc's) Nolvadex 10mg EOD
Week 5 - 500 mg Sust (2cc's) 200 mg Deca (1 cc) Nolvadex 15mg ED
Week 6 - 500 mg Sust (2cc's) 400 mg Deca (2cc's)Nolvadex 15mg ED
Week 7 - 500 mg Sust (2cc's) 400 mg Deca (2cc's)Nolvadex 15mg ED
Week 8 - 250 Sust (1cc) 400 mg Deca (2cc's)Nolvadex 10mg ED
Week 9 - 250 Sust (1cc) 400 mg Deca (2cc's)Nolvadex 10mg EOD
Week 10 - 400 mg Deca (2cc's)Nolvadex 10mg EOD
Week 11 - 400 mg Deca (2cc's)Nolvadex 10mg EOD
Week 12 - 200 mg Deca (1cc)Nolvadex 10mg EOD
Week 13 - Clomid 50mg ED
Week 14 - Clomid 50mg ED
Week 15 - Clomid 50mg EOD

Now here's the logic behind it. It's been said that your virgin cycle is where you'll make the most gains, so why not blast the shit out of your receptors right off the bat. You start off at 750 mg of synthetics and peak at 900 mg, then taper off to 200 mg by your last week. Those 2 weeks where it's at 900 mg, you train like an iron addict. Clenbuterol you take on either a 3 day on/off or a 2 day on/off, whatever floats your boat. Nolvadex and Clomid both are needed and are take in accordance to either your nipple sensitivity or your dosage. I'd rather play it safe and sorry, and with bulking up on Vitamin C (because your body can never have TOO much of it) and keeping your salts and sodium low, you'll avoid a lot of possible water retention and the possibility of gyno.

Compare this to taking 500 Sust + 400 Deca a week and any criticism would be more than welcomed.

The body's just a machine.

**hitnyajunk08** · 06-11-2002, 10:03 PM

This is an interesting concept......let me know how your cycle works out

**Ice_cold** · 06-11-2002, 10:08 PM

well I would say this dont look right and this dont look right but Im a newbie so I will bump this for some pro's cuz Im way unsure about this one.no flame

**BigPete** · 06-11-2002, 10:30 PM

From my understand on your first cycle you don't need a whole hell of a lot. 750mg is a lot for your first cycle. I would think 500mg Sus and 400mg Deca is just fine. Also there is no need to taper down keep it at a constant level. Test should not be tapered! Let's see what the MODS and the VETS say about this issue but my guess is that this is way to much for your first cycle.

***the original jason*** · 06-12-2002, 12:01 AM

bro all I can say is you are way off base I would do some more researching, I mean you have one post and never used juice before and then what?

tapering is useless, nolvadex on cycle has been shown to lower igf-1 therefore lowering gains( just take it when needed) sure front load the sust if you want 750mg per week for 3 weeks but then steady it to 500 throughout. Your clomid timing is wrong you would need to wait 2-2.5 weeks post last deca shot before starting clomid due its long acting ester. using clen is much more effective on a 2 week on 1 week of cycle as the 3 day on 2 day off method is pretty useless due to the fact it doesnt clear ur system in that time and doesnt give the receptors any type of break or time to recover.

peace

**John Hubbard** · 06-12-2002, 01:49 AM

I think you're confused on a few things.You can't shut down the prodution pf cortisol by taking a certain amount of AS. The more AS you take the more your body will try to increase cortisol. The concept behind taking AS is to increase the ratio of anabolic hormone to catabolic hormone .A ratio of 51%:49% respectively is all you would need for your body to be in an anbolic state.You wouldn't want to suppress all cortisol in your body anyways because some is necessary for the lubrication of joints. If you had no cortisol , you would be in a lot of pain 24/7. Also keeping your salts and sodium down to avoid the possibility of gyno , as you stated, is false. Gyno is induced by estrogen and progesterone not sodium. IMO , you should read up and study more before doing any AS.

**poppapump58** · 06-12-2002, 11:07 AM

I dont think you are going to see any results with 3 weeks on Deca . You need to bump that shit somehow to about 6 weeks in order to see any good results.

**Methuselah** · 06-12-2002, 11:37 AM

It sounds like a heart attack about to happen. You're proposing toxic levels on your first cycle without giving your body a chance to get used to it. If you don't experience a medical catastrophe, you'll be awake all night sweating and experience all the bad sides at best.

If you do decide to do the cycle at those doses, it is a good idea to run the nolvadex during the cycle.

I would go back to the drawing board and plan a new cycle. Something like 500 mg sus/400 mg deca and throw in an oral such as winny or anavar (even this is a big cycle for a beginner).

And, you're only 20 years old...?

Good luck.

**Methuselah** · 06-12-2002, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by poppapump58
I dont think you are going to see any results with 3 weeks on Deca. You need to bump that shit somehow to about 6 weeks in order to see any good results.

It looks like he has 8 weeks in there.

**silverfox** · 06-12-2002, 11:42 AM

Toxic levels, stop listening to meda..

Your thoery is very similar to late Dan D. Pick up Bodyopuis, good read, and he says same thing, why not take full advantage of your 1st cycle and start with 1000mg base of test, does it work, duno have never tired it that way. Most times if diet and training are in order big dose is not needed to grow

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 06-12-2002, 07:35 PM

I may be young, but the knowledge base and the institution as well as the numerous amounts of Doctors and Vets and even veterans I have talked too have led to this theory of a "Shock" cycle. I do understand and respect that experience beats any theory and I take it in stride greatfully, that's why I put the message on the board and waited for your replies. So here goes in the reply:

BIG PETE: Why no tapering on a test? If I just drop off from 900mg of AS to nothing, isn't that just asking for side effects?

THE ORIGINAL JASON: Thanks for the advice on the Clen and the Clomid, I'll use it wisely. But the amount that Nolva lowers your IGF-1 isn't significant enough to render the AS useless, as gains are important, so is not having gyno. Yikes. And in regards to your comment about having "one post and never used juice before and so what", no disrespect but it's an ignorant comment. My posts have no regard to my crediblity, for all you know I can have a Phd in Anabolic Steroids . They do, on the other hand, account for a reputation. And I do get that. For a second, ignore the fact that I'm 20 years old and I've never sauced it up before, would the theory intrigue you and make some sense, or would you say the same thing? Knowledge and research doesn't have an age or experience limit. Even though I've never juiced it up before, there was a time where you haven't either, but you knew guys who did. Us young guys aren't as dumb as we used to be and AS is more rampant than ever before, and in my line of work and education, you learn and absorb everyday.

JOHN HUBBARD: Thanks for the heads up on the Cortisol not being shut down, but I won't be at the point where it'll end up, in theory, not producing. But it's still good to know. Isn't Deca known for lubricating the joints and easing pain in those who claim sores and aches? In regards to your ratio of 51:49, why not bump it up for maximum potential by higher doeses. A pro informed me that after 1000mg of AS, everything else above that mark is exponential. The reason for keeping the salts and sodium low has no relation to the estrogen binding effects, you're right, but males who have a higher number of fat cells (obese or overweight before puberty) have a tendency to carry fat in their nipples. Water retention or fatty deposits can also replicate gyno in the pec. It's either Nolva's or Arimidex 's job to stop the binding in the receptors.

METHUSALA: I understand the dose is relatively high, and it's a shock to the body, but that's what it's purpose is. Since the Sust is a fast acting AS, each of the 4 synthetics will be kicking in at a different time, at an enormous amount. I don't fully understand what you mean by a "heart attack waiting to happen". Toxic levels and being in pain, the pro's use amounts that make what I propose look like a bag of shit. I'm sure that they started slow and that some live off of AS year round, but they don't seem to be in any pain...right now. Also, you mention taking 500 Sustanon with 400mg Deca without tapering and right off the bat. That's 900mg compared to 750mg, won't I still have a "heart attack". An oxymoron?

EYE_CANDY: Dan D? Bodyopious? Thanks for the 411, I'll be sure to pick it up ASAP. I understand that for big gains takes big committment and a steady, consistent and timed eating plan. I have reached my plateau and it's time for a kick-start. Vroom vroom.

In NO way do I mean any disrespect to anyone who messaged back, I do respect the fact that you've all been here much longer than me and I just want to remind you that I do welcome the criticism and suggestions, but details as to WHY it won't work and what will would be appreciated so I get a full understanding of what exactly is happening in the human body. Thanks for the replies!

For all us young guys, take the time out to thoroughly study and understand what's happening to your body while taking AS and how it's happening, it's a worthwhile investment of your time and ask reliable sources for info. Let's prove to these "geritols" that we can be somewhat competent in a juice forum! (haha)

Peace

**Ice_cold** · 06-12-2002, 09:05 PM

hey bro,from what I have read and researched,once you go big on test you cant go back(if Im wrong someone please tell me).something to think about.again no flame just putting my 1/2 peso in.

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 06-12-2002, 09:07 PM

What exactly do you mean by you ca't go back when heavy on test?

**Nico** · 06-12-2002, 09:16 PM

For a first cycle, go with 500mgs of test and 400mgs of deca weeks 1-10 and clomid at the end. Maybe throw in some dbols in the first 4 weeks. That was my first cycle. It was basic and very effective.

**Ice_cold** · 06-12-2002, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by RoNNy THe BuLL
What exactly do you mean by you ca't go back when heavy on test?

what Im saying is once you hit up 750mg of test,your next cycle will have to be better then 750mg,more like 1000mg.you cant go back and run 500mg it wont do anything for you.again I dont want to piss anyone off cuz Im still learning myself.this is from what I have read and heard,so take it for what it's worth.besides bro,you dont know how your body is going to react to that much test.keep it simple and be safe.500mg test 300mg deca 25mg dbol ,thats a killer cycle(from what I have read) for a newbie IMO.

***the original jason*** · 06-13-2002, 12:14 AM

And in regards to your comment about having "one post and never used juice before and so what", no disrespect but it's an ignorant comment

LOL ignorant comment and no disrespect dont fit in the same sentence here i think. I will tell you where i got it from You gave plenty of ideas about your cycle and then asked for advice where does it say anything about you?? or are we supposed to be detectives as well as give advice? I mean you dont state your age, experience, body stats anything and that is my fault for not asking first. I realise number of posts means nothing however asking for advice without giving those figures doesnt make it any easier for anyone to help you.

Regarding your reply about lowered igf-1 levels, I would simply say why take more which increases the sides so you can take more meds to cover them it seems pointless to me. I would rather lower the doses take no nolva and have less sides in general but get the same gains.

All this talk about massive gains these basic type of cycles are tried and tested and people gain like 15-25lb with good diet and training what exactly are you trying to do re-invent the wheel or invent a rounder one?? The body can only take so much gains in such a short time

peace

**bigboyfromamass** · 06-13-2002, 12:50 AM

Guys I have two questions, how come everyone insists on stacking when you can get good gains on test alone...I got good gains on test cyp at 500 a week my first cycle and would not wanna go higher than that....my second question is about tapering, I understand there is no physical benefit but when I came off my test I got depressed, I am wondering if I tapered down the final couple weeks if it would have helped at all mentally? any thoughts

***the original jason*** · 06-13-2002, 01:59 AM

juice is self tapering, the reason you got depressed is due to natural test shutdown post cycle its normal

peace

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 06-13-2002, 07:32 PM

So pretty much what you veterans are saying is that 500mg Sust and 400 mg Deca for 10 weeks straight will do an equal/better or job?
????

**Anabolik** · 06-14-2002, 06:03 AM

Ronny,
Im sorry but what you are posting just shows that you need to either learn more or understand better what you have already learnt. There is no point taking clomid for post-cycle recovery a week after you finish deca . There is no need to taper deca or sust because they are self-tapering. Sust is not the best choice for a shocking cycle in my opinion because its very hard to keep more or less constant test levels with it. No need to take nolvadex unless gyno symptoms become prominent. Run an anti-e, preferrably letrozole (femara). That will keep e down and wont depress your IGF-1.

Now the doses you take are purely up to you, although I dont think anyone would recommend anything above 500mg of test for a first cycle. Of course a lot depends on your stats and the way your body reacts to AAS. You won't die from 1000mg of test netiher will you die from 5000mg. Just remember that the sides will be much more pronounce
d. You may be lucky and get away with very few sides. Up to you.
Dont go too high on deca tho. People end up in hospital with 800-1200mg of deca a week.

If you really want to shock your body go with propionate or even suspension for the first 4 weeks. Frontload with enanthate or cypionate for 2 weeks. Then run it for another 10 weeks. Throw some a-bombs for a laugh for the first 5 weeks. Add something anabolic like deca or Eq for 10 weeks. Use propionate or suspension to bridge up to post-cycle therapy. Hit Dbol in the mornings, clomid, may be hcg , insulin , more letrozole for post-cycle. Be good to throw in some HGH for the whole thing too. Now you should grow well off all that.

Good luck.

**dizzle** · 06-14-2002, 10:08 AM

still waiting to hear your stats and lifting experience. i'm just curious on how much you plan on gaining. over 30lbs? most people gain 15-25lbs on their first cycle, which I think is a huge amount to gain in a 12 week period.

i would recommend arimidex /liquidex instead of nolvadex during your cycle, and still keep the nolvadex on hand.

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 06-15-2002, 09:53 AM

So you want my stats eh? Aright.

6'1"
190lbs
10% BF
30" waist
16" arms
24" quads
16" calves
Off the top of my head, that's all I can remember.

I'm looking to put on 15-25 lbs like you mentioned before. That's roughly around 1-2 lbs a week, which with massive eating is possible and not just a pipe dream. I'm trying to lower my body fat to mayb 6% before I start so the ratio of muscle-fat weight gain will be in favor of muscle. I'm hoping to get my arms to 17.5" inch and there's a common rule that for every inch you want to gain on your arms, you need to gain 15lbs on your body, hopefully that's true and things will work out.

Why do you recommend Armidex instead of Nolva? I was looking into that but I'd appreciate your opinion.

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 06-15-2002, 09:54 AM

Oh yeah, been lifting for 4 years steady. Starting lifting when introduced to High School football and kept it through to Senior Rugby, and still play in a mens league.

***the original jason*** · 06-15-2002, 10:09 AM

just go with a standard bulking cycle bro no need to re-invent the wheel!! tried and tested you can well reach your goals with the right diet and training regime. If you are an ecto you can easily eat 4500-5000kals per day and not get to fat I would go with that if you are as low as you say u r 6%. If you are an endo I would watch the carb intake see how your body reacts start with about 3500-4000 kals watch ur waistline if you dont run the anti-e like liquidex, armidex or something similar dont mistake water retention for fat gain cos u r bound to get some in fact I would guess you will get some either way. Hope that helps

peace