help

[jayheero]

okay im on sus 750mg and dbol my friends say im huge upper body wise shoulders are huge, chest is huge and arms and back are huge.

but they say my stomach is to big and im huge everywhere else now my stomach is always been huge. how do i get rid of the gut my diet is good now do i walk or should i run . how do i get that stomach to go down help. i have some winstrol and tren i hope that will help.

[juiceboxxx]

I would just do some cardio perhaps 45mins/ed and work on my abs as well. Works for me anyways.

[HORSE~]

Try AM cardio on a empty stomach.

[cfiler]

Best is to do 45-60 minutes of am cardio.

This should be moved to the work-out section.

[Beretta726]

yea i agree with 45 minutes of cardio ED but do weighted abs EOD

[jayheero]

thanks alot guys is walking good enough or should i run 45 min what u recommend another question is the bloat from sustanon and dbol on the stomach . and im trying to pack on muscle and it is lean mass cycle so 45 min everyday still any idea i think that is overkill .

[jayheero]

any ideas guys im doing a bulker so how much cardio a week and how long

[taiboxa]

wat ever you do..do not THINK GEAR (win/tren /wutever) is going to get rid of ur gut.. its diet/cardio ur diet i gurantee you, is krappier than you realize.. check ou the diet forum to see why.

[jayheero]

okay thanks great advice im 6 1 275 my upperbody is awesome my diet is not bad i think it is the cardio i just hate doing cardio . im on test and sus , and wanna bulk up now how much cardio do you suggest i do a week remember im on gear and wanna pack on much as muscle as possibile so my calories are gonna be high of course.

so how much cardio where i dont burn muscle but fat and dont lose strength a week and how long please help thanks alot for responding appreciate it for helping a newbie like me vet thanks.

[HORSE~]

Why are you running test and sust?

[Beretta726]

okay thanks great advice im 6 1 275 my upperbody is awesome my diet is not bad i think it is the cardio i just hate doing cardio . im on test and sus , and wanna bulk up now how much cardio do you suggest i do a week remember im on gear and wanna pack on much as muscle as possibile so my calories are gonna be high of course.

so how much cardio where i dont burn muscle but fat and dont lose strength a week and how long please help thanks alot for responding appreciate it for helping a newbie like me vet thanks.

Never heard of burning muscle from doing cardio. Cardio will help you in just about anything you do. It's good for your muscles.

[HORSE~]

Never heard of burning muscle from doing cardio. Cardio will help you in just about anything you do. It's good for your muscles.

Yes to much cardio can burn muscles or rob the nutrients needed to build the muscles actuly both, that's why most pro's don't do cardio until right before compation's.

[Beretta726]

Yes to much cardio can burn muscles or rob the nutrients needed to build the muscles actuly both, that's why most pro's don't do cardio until right before compation's.

you're right but couldn't you just replenish those nutrients immediatley following your workout?

[jayheero]

so how much is okay to burn fat people use it as excuse not do cardio it will burn muscle if you going overboard on cardio. by the way sus is test in case you didnt know.

bodybuilders are plain lazy and use it as an excuse. also another question how much cardio should i do again and it is day 11 on dbol and i am not noticing any strength gains off of dbol yet i think my gear is fake.

[Beretta726]

From what I've heard about dbol you should def be feeling it by now

[HORSE~]

so how much is okay to burn fat people use it as excuse not do cardio it will burn muscle if you going overboard on cardio. by the way sus is test in case you didnt know.

bodybuilders are plain lazy and use it as an excuse. also another question how much cardio should i do again and it is day 11 on dbol and i am not noticing any strength gains off of dbol yet i think my gear is fake.

Dude I know sust is test you said you were runing sust and test hence my responce.

[SMAN12b]

so how much is okay to burn fat people use it as excuse not do cardio it will burn muscle if you going overboard on cardio. by the way sus is test in case you didnt know.

bodybuilders are plain lazy and use it as an excuse. also another question how much cardio should i do again and it is day 11 on dbol and i am not noticing any strength gains off of dbol yet i think my gear is fake.

CARDIO- First thing in the morning on empty stomach is best but not the only time to do it, so just do it !!! 5-7 days/week no more than 45min if you are worried about muscle. medium high pace, enough to get heart rate going and breathing heavy.

[HORSE~]

so how much is okay to burn fat people use it as excuse not do cardio it will burn muscle if you going overboard on cardio. by the way sus is test in case you didnt know.

bodybuilders are plain lazy and use it as an excuse. also another question how much cardio should i do again and it is day 11 on dbol and i am not noticing any strength gains off of dbol yet i think my gear is fake.

Bodybuilders are lazy and use it as an excuse hu I'd like to see you standing next to one of those lazy bodybuilders that are in the pro's those lazy bastards!

[jayheero]

what i mean't is most bodybuilders will tell you they hate doing cardio and do it in the last stages close to competition. anyways looks like cardio has to start going at 45 min from now on. i was walking for 30 min on the treadmill i guess that is not good enough.

i happen to have the jay culter and ronnie coleman dvds and all they do is walk on the treadmill for an hour they dont even run or do it at high intensity wierd. i guess i gotta start running.

[jayheero]

could the bloat in the stomach be because of sustanon and dbol i mean im bloated all over will the bloat in my face and stomach go away after i stop taking dbol and sustanon i shoot 750 which is high.

[HORSE~]

Yes the bloat you are experencing from your cycle will go away after you finsh your cycle and pct but you said you have always had A large stomach if thats the case the the only way I know of to get rid of it would be cardio just make sure when you do it your heart rate stays elavated for atleast 20 to 30 minutes.A good whay to judge is to get to where it is hard to talk while doing your cardio and stay at that leval for your whole sesion.

[jayheero]

great advice dude thanks horse so the bloat is everywhere even in the stomach hey. okay so 20-30min 3 times a week and medium intensity how does that sound buddy. good to go. thanks

[juiceboxxx]

great advice dude thanks horse so the bloat is everywhere even in the stomach hey. okay so 20-30min 3 times a week and medium intensity how does that sound buddy. good to go. thanks

i would do 45 mins.

[jayheero]

okay 45min than 3 times a week how is that

[Kale]

Jay I am in the same boat as you. I have done a lot of research on this and I am also on cycle and wanting to bulk. Do not run !!! First piece of advice. What I do is a 45 to 60 min min walk three days a week, my days off, I only workout 4 days a week. Now the walk should be FAT BURN !!! That means you get your heart rate to around 115 bpm and keep it there. That is the level you will burn fat and still maintain muscle. Do you have a Polar watch ? if so most of the gyms walking machines will synch to Polar watches and you can just press the Fat Burn button, The watch will measure your heart rate and automatically maintain the speed of the machine to keep you at your required heart rate.

[jayheero]

thanks alot kale brisk walk or high intenity walk . another chick told me that walking does not burn fat like running any idea about that

[Kale]

thanks alot kale brisk walk or high intenity walk . another chick told me that walking does not burn fat like running any idea about that

As her to see some studies !!!!

A.M. Fat Burn
Author: Tom Venuto
Date: Aug 01, 2001

Even though morning cardio has been embraced by bodybuilders as a "tried and true" fat loss technique, there is definitely not a unanimous agreement about its effectiveness, especially in the scientific community. Most competitive bodybuilders are die-hard advocates of doing cardio first thing in the morning before eating their first meal. They believe it will cause them to mobilize more stored body fat and increase their metabolic rate all day long. There’s quite a bit of scientific literature supporting the a.m. fasted cardio theory, but generally, the exercise physiologists and scientists tend not to buy it. They subscribe to the energy balance hypothesis, which states; as long as you burn more calories than you consume in each 24 hour period, then the time of day you burn them doesn’t matter, nor does whether you burn them from fat or carbohydrate.

If you have even the most rudimentary understanding of human physiology and physics, you have to concede that the timing of your cardio is not the most important factor in fat loss. When you do your cardio won’t make or break you. Simply doing it whenever it’s convenient and following a mildly calorie restricted diet is what’s important. However, there’s a very strong case for doing fasted a.m. cardio and if you want to gain every legal and ethical advantage possible in your quest to get leaner then it’s definitely something you should take a closer look at.

The argument in favor of fasted early morning cardio goes something like this:

1. When you wake up in the morning after an overnight 8-12 hour fast, your body’s stores of glycogen are somewhat depleted. Doing cardio in this state causes your body to mobilize more fat because of the unavailability of glycogen.

2. Eating causes a release of insulin . Insulin interferes with the mobilization of body fat. Less insulin is present in the morning; therefore, more body fat is burned when cardio is done in the morning.

3. There is less carbohydrate (glucose) "floating around" in the bloodstream when you wake up after an overnight fast. With less glucose available, you will burn more fat.

4. If you eat immediately before a workout, you have to burn off what you just ate first before tapping into stored body fat (and insulin is elevated after a meal.)

5. When you do cardio in the morning, your metabolism stays elevated for a period of time after the workout is over. If you do cardio in the evening, you burn calories during the session so you definitely benefit from it, but you fail to take advantage of the "afterburn" effect because your metabolic rate drops dramatically as soon as you go to sleep.

Research supports this theory. A study performed at Kansas State University and published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise showed that a kilogram of fat is burned sooner when exercise is done in the fasted state in the morning than when it’s done later in the day. The researchers measured respiratory gas exchange, caloric expenditure and carbohydrate and fatty acid metabolism, and found that the amount of fat burned during aerobic exercise amounted to 67% of the total energy expenditure in the morning after a 12 hour fast. This is substantially higher than the 50% expenditure achieved when the same exercise was done later in the day or after eating. A similar study from The Journal of Applied Physiology looked at the effects of aerobic exercise on lipid oxidation in fed versus fasted states. The researchers concluded, "our results support the hypothesis that endurance training enhances lipid oxidation in men after a 12 hour overnight fast." Yet another scientific paper, Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss," reports, "The ability of exercise to selectively promote fat oxidation should be optimized if exercise is done during morning fasted metabolism."

Despite the fact that increased fat burning from morning aerobics seems logical and is backed by research, the majority of scientists and exercise physiologists vehemently deny its effectiveness. They are quick to point out that you can find a study to support almost any theory you want to advocate. Interestingly though, even the most dyed in the wool academics agree that you’ll burn more fat in the fuel mix as compared to sugars. The real controversy lies in whether this fact has any impact on overall fat loss in the long run.

Exercise Physiologist Greg Landry, MS, author of "The Metabolism System for Weight Loss and Fitness," explains, "I agree that you burn a fuel mix that is a little higher in fat if you’re exercising on an empty stomach. However, I think the real question is, does that matter? I believe we have a ‘pool’ of calories stored in different forms in the body (fat, glycogen, etc.), so ‘burned’ calories all come from the same pool. Thus, it really doesn’t matter that the fuel mix has a little more fat in it at a given time. If it’s pulling from fat stores at that time, then it’s pulling less from glycogen stores and thus future consumed calories will be a little more likely to be stored as fat because glycogen stores are a little fuller. So it’s all a wash."

Lyle McDonald, an expert on bodybuilding nutrition and author of "The Ketogenic Diet," agrees. He argues that the body will compensate later in the day and is simply "too smart" for strategies like this to ever work: "All that research says is that you burn a greater proportion of fat this way, which I agree with 100%," says Lyle. "The majority of research shows that as far as real world fat loss goes, it doesn’t really matter what you burn. Rather, 24-hour calorie balance is what matters. Because if you burn glucose during exercise, you tend to burn more fat the rest of the day. If you burn fat during exercise, you burn more glucose during the day. The end result is identical. If that weren’t the case, then athletes like sprinters who never ‘burn fat’ during exercise wouldn’t be shredded. Basically, they burn so many calories that they remain in balance and don’t gain any fat. So, while morning cardio probably provides some psychological benefits to bodybuilders who are programmed to do it that way, I can’t say that I think it will result in greater ‘real world’ fat loss, which is what matters."

When it comes to "real world" fat loss, few people have more experience than Chris Aceto. A successful bodybuilder and nutritionist to some of the top pro bodybuilders in the world, Aceto is a firm believer in morning cardio. He unequivocally states, "The fastest way to tap stored body fat is to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach."

Aceto believes that looking at calories only in terms of energy in vs. energy out is "limited thinking." He asserts that there are more factors involved in "real world" results than just energy balance. This all comes back to the old argument, are all calories created equal? "Absolutely not!" Aceto declares. "A calorie is not just a calorie and exercise physiologists ‘freak out’ when they hear this."

"These guys are working from the assumption that it’s just a matter of calories in vs. calories out, period," Chris continued. "With that line of reasoning, they’d be forced to say that if I consume nothing but candy bars and Coca-Cola, and take in 100 calories less than maintenance, I’d lose weight. We know it’s not that simple. You also have to account for ratios of carbs, protein, and fat. Then there’s meal frequency too: From real world results we know you put down more muscle mass from 5 or 6 meals a day than from 3 meals a day. There are more things involved than just calories."

Whether or not morning cardio in the fasted state increases "real world" fat loss is still the subject of controversy, but there are many other reasons you might want to consider making it a part of your daily routine. Landry, despite his doubts about whether the fuel source matters, admits, "If I had to pick a single factor I thought was most important in a successful weight loss program, it would have to be to exercise first thing in the morning."

Here are some of the additional benefits of doing cardio early in the morning:

1.It makes you feel great all day by releasing mood-enhancing endorphins.

2. It "energizes" you and "wakes you up."

3. It may help regulate your appetite for the rest of the day.

4. Your body’s circadian rhythm adjusts to your morning routine, making it easier to wake up at the same time every day.

5. You’ll be less likely to "blow off" your workout when it’s out of the way early (like when you’re exhausted after work or when friends ask you to join them at the pub for happy hour).

6. You can always "make time" for exercise by setting your alarm earlier in the morning.

7. It increases your metabolic rate for hours after the session is over.

Of all these benefits, the post-exercise increase in your metabolic rate is one of the most talked about. Scientists call this "afterburn" effect the "excess post-exercise oxygen consumption" or EPOC for short.

Looking only at the number of calories and the type of calories burned during the session doesn’t give you the full picture. You also need to look at the increased number of calories you continue to burn after the workout is over. That’s right - work out in the morning and you burn calories all day long. Imagine burning extra fat as you sit at your desk at work! That’s the good news. The bad news is, the degree of EPOC is not as great as most people think. It’s a myth that your metabolism stays elevated for 24 hours after a regular aerobic workout. That only happens after extremely intense and/or prolonged exercise such as running a marathon.

After low intensity exercise, the magnitude of the EPOC is so small that its impact on fat loss is negligible. Somewhere between 9 and 30 extra calories are burned after exercise at an intensity of less than 60-65% of maximal heart rate. In other words, a casual stroll on the treadmill will do next to nothing to increase your metabolism.

However, EPOC does increase with the intensity (and duration) of the exercise. According to Wilmore and Costill in "Physiology of Sport and Exercise," the EPOC after moderate exercise (75-80%) will amount to approximately .25 kcal/min or 15 kcal/hour. This would provide an additional expenditure of 75 kcal that would not normally be calculated in the total energy expended for that activity. An extra 75 calories is definitely nothing Earth shattering. However, it does add up over time. In a year that would mean (in theory) you would burn an extra 5.2 lbs of fat from the additional calories expended after the workout.

One way to get a significant post exercise "afterburn" is high intensity interval training (HIIT). HIIT is done by alternating brief periods of high intensity work (85% or more) with brief periods of lower intensity work. Studies on the effects of HIIT have demonstrated a much higher EPOC, which can add substantially to the day’s calorie expenditure. In one study, scientists from the University of Alabama compared the effects of two exercise protocols on 24-hour energy expenditure. The first group cycled for 60 minutes at a moderate intensity. The second group performed HIIT, cycling for two minutes at high intensity followed by two minutes at a low intensity. The group that performed the HIIT burned 160 more calories in 24 hours than the low intensity group. That means the HIIT group would burn an extra 11.8 pounds of fat in one year if they did HIIT five days a week instead of conventional training.

Ironically, weight training has a much higher magnitude of EPOC than aerobic training. Studies have shown increases in metabolic rate of as much as 4-7% over a 24-hour period from resistance training. Yes - that means bodybuilding does burn fat – albeit through an indirect mechanism. For someone with an expenditure of 2500 calories per day, that could add up to 100 - 175 extra calories burned after your weight training workout is over. The lesson is simple: Anyone interested in losing body fat who is not lifting weights should first take up a regimen of bodybuilding, then – and only then – start thinking about the morning cardio!

A common concern about doing cardio in the fasted state, especially if it’s done with high intensity, is the possibility of losing muscle. After an overnight fast, glycogen, blood glucose and insulin are all low. As we’ve already concluded, this is an optimum environment for burning fat. Unfortunately, it may also be an optimum environment for burning muscle because carbohydrate fuel sources are low and levels of the catabolic stress hormone cortisol are high. It sounds like morning cardio might be a double-edged sword, but there are ways to avert muscle loss.

All aerobic exercise will have some effect on building muscle, but as long as you don’t overdo it, you shouldn’t worry about losing muscle. It's a fact that muscle proteins are broken down and used for energy during aerobic exercise. But you are constantly breaking down and re-building muscle tissue anyway. This process is called "protein turnover" and it’s a daily fact of life. Your goal is to tip the scales slightly in favor of increasing the anabolic side and reducing the catabolic side just enough so you stay anabolic and you gain or at least maintain muscle.

How do you build up more muscle than you break down? First, avoid excessive cardio. Aceto suggests limiting your cardio on an empty stomach to 30 minutes, and then it would be "highly unlikely that amino acids will be burned as fuel." He also mentions that "a strong cup of coffee should facilitate a shifting to burn more fat and less glycogen. If you can spare glycogen, you’ll ultimately spare protein too." You might also want to consider experimenting with the thermogenic ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin stack (or it’s herbal equivalent).

Second, give your body the proper nutritional support. Losing muscle probably has more to do with inadequate nutrition than with excessive aerobics. Provide yourself with the proper nutritional support for the rest of the day, including adequate meal frequency, protein, carbohydrates and total calories, and it’s not as likely that there will be a net loss of muscle tissue over each 24-hour period.

Third, keep training with heavy weights, even during a fat loss phase. Using light weights and higher reps thinking that it will help you get more "cut" is a mistake: What put the muscle on in the first place is likely to help you keep it there.

Still petrified of losing your hard-earned muscle, but you’d like to take advantage of the fat-burning and metabolism-boosting effects of morning cardio? One strategy many bodybuilders use is to drink a protein shake or eat a protein only meal 30-60 minutes prior to the morning session. The protein without the carbs will minimize the insulin response and allow you to mobilize fat while providing amino acids to prevent muscle breakdown.

In conclusion, it seems that morning cardio has enough indisputable benefits to motivate most people to set their alarms early. But let’s talk bottom line results here: Does it really result in more "real world fat loss" than aerobics performed at other times of the day or after eating? I have to believe it does. Experience, common sense and research all tell me so. Nevertheless, this will obviously continue to be an area of much debate, and clearly, more research is needed. In the meantime, while the scientists are busy in their labs measuring respiratory exchange ratios, caloric expenditures and rates of substrate utilization, I’m going to keep waking up at 6:00 AM every morning to get on my Stairmaster.

References

1. Aceto, Chris. Everything you need to know about fat loss. Club Creavalle, Inc. (1997).

2. Bahr, R. Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption – Magnitude, Mechanisms and Practical Implications. Acta Physiol Scand. Suppl. (1992) 605. 1-70.

3. Bergman, BC, Brooks, GA. Respiratory gas-exchange ratios during graded exercise in fed and fasted trained and untrained men. Journal of Applied Physiology. (1999) 86: 2.

4. Brehm, B.A., and Gutin, B. Recovery energy expenditure for steady state exercise in runners and non-exercisers. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. (1986) 18: 205,

5. Brybner, BW. The effects of exercise intensity on body composition, weight loss, and dietary composition in women. Journal of American College of Nutrition, (1997) 16: 68-73

6. Landry, Greg. The Metabolism System for Weight Loss. Greg Landry. (2000).

7. Maehlum, S., etc al. Magnitude and duration of post exercise oxygen consumption in healthy young subjects. Metabolism (1986) 35 (5): 425-429.

8. McCarty, MF. Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss. Medical Hypothesis. (1995) 44: 325-330

9. McDonald, Lyle. The Ketogenic Diet. Morris Publishing, (1998).

10. Melby, C. et al. Effect of acute resistance exercise on post exercise energy expenditure and resting metabolic rate. J Applied Physiology, (1993). 75: 1847-1853

11. Wilmore, Jack, Costill, David. Physiology of Sport and Exercise. (1999) 2nd ed. Human Kinetics

12. Tremblay, A, et al, Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism. Metabolism (1994) 43: 818-818

13. Treuth, M.S., Hunter, G.R., & Williams, M. Effects of exercise intensity on 24-h energy expenditure and substrate oxidation. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise. (1996) 28, 1138-1143

14.Wilcox, Harford & Wedel. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, (1985) 17:2

[jayheero]

i read it thanks but i believe to get to 65 percent heart rate you should be running walking wont cut it . your not sweating and it is not high intensity kale. walking is good dont get me wrong it is good for the heart and it does burn calories but if your at 20 percent bodyfat is walking going to produce fast results i beg to differ. also the morning cardio thing is being argued greatly because some fitness guru are saying you need carbs to do cardio and have energy after all carbs is the fuel you need to run those countless miles.

i really believe that running at high pace and some breaks in between combination is best walking is not a fat burner it is good for the heart you will lose some weight perhaps but will it yield quick results like running i dont think so perhaps a personal fitness trainer on this board can help us with this debate .

i am impressed with your knowledge kale but i kindly have to say on this topic i beg to differ . running is more productive than walking

[marcus300]

I wouldnt worry to much about the size of your stomach while on your cycle, just carry on eating as much clean food as possible and building new muscle tissue, then go through pct get yourself back to normal and maintain the new found muscle,then concentrate on cutting up and getting rid of the gut.

All you need to do is some light cardio durring your cycle and concentrate on the gut after pct, this will also get your body ready for the next cycle by priming.