Disappointing Gains

**The Godfather** · 05-23-2006, 07:31 AM

yo guys

i'm currently on 250mg test, 20mg dbol , and 400mg primo, 3 weeks in and excuse my french, but the gains are CRAP

and before you ask me about my diet, i am eating shitloads, i'm putting on weight, but, in terms of the mirror i'm just not responding as well as i have done on previous cycles, and from the looks of things the weight is all going to my midsection and arse, it sucks! and its depressing me

i'm tempted to up the test to 500, dbol to 30, and just act like i'm starting from scratch again, i feel fine and all, but normally a couple of weeks into cycles and i'm looking in the mirror thinking, hot damm! check out them muscles! but right now that ain't happening, and i'm worried that because i'm 3 weeks in already i've lost the shock and awe potential for them big explosive gains at the start of the cycle, sad and pissed off, not good!

**sbeast007** · 05-23-2006, 07:36 AM

up the dose to 500mgs a week split into 2 shots

**1buffsob** · 05-23-2006, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

yo guys

i'm currently on 250mg test, 20mg dbol , and 400mg primo, 3 weeks in and excuse my french, but the gains are CRAP

and before you ask me about my diet, i am eating shitloads, i'm putting on weight, but, in terms of the mirror i'm just not responding as well as i have done on previous cycles, and from the looks of things the weight is all going to my midsection and arse, it sucks! and its depressing me

i'm tempted to up the test to 500, dbol to 30, and just act like i'm starting from scratch again, i feel fine and all, but normally a couple of weeks into cycles and i'm looking in the mirror thinking, hot damm! check out them muscles! but right now that ain't happening, and i'm worried that because i'm 3 weeks in already i've lost the shock and awe potential for them big explosive gains at the start of the cycle, sad and pissed off, not good!

I seriously doubt your diet is as good as you think it is.

1buffsob

**Liftnainez** · 05-23-2006, 07:47 AM

its either your diet or your gear my be fake... lay out your diet for us so

**lucabratzi** · 05-23-2006, 07:49 AM

its only been 3 weeks...have patience...and yeah up ur dosage to 500mg..

**AleX-69** · 05-23-2006, 07:55 AM

i think his gear may be fake..

well he used to cycle in the past and gained muscle so his diet can't be THAT bad..

If he is eating the same now as he was back then - and gaining mostly fat - it is probably fake gear.

**The Godfather** · 05-23-2006, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

I seriously doubt your diet is as good as you think it is.

1buffsob

bro, i've made much better gains in the past on about 1000 cals less per day, i'm eating about 7000cals right now, no sh1t, i've been in the game a while bro

like i said, i am putting weight on, that is not the issue here, just not in the right places, then again i've never used doses this low before, so i've kind of answered my own question, just wondering the best plan of action to get the max out of this cycle

**The Godfather** · 05-23-2006, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

i think his gear may be fake..

well he used to cycle in the past and gained muscle so his diet can't be THAT bad..

If he is eating the same now as he was back then - and gaining mostly fat - it is probably fake gear.

gear is legit, i've used the same batch of dbols and test before

sorry, perhaps i didn't make it so clear, on previous cycles i've used doses of 30mg dbol , 500mg test, etc, i thought i'd try out a lower dose to see if i could get similar gains without as many sides (after hearing mixed reports on it), but its not quite working as planned, hence i'm looking to up the doses, i think i'll definately put the test up to 500mg, might get a couple more on the dbol at 30 then drop it, i'm not a fan of the orals but at the same time if your going to run something run it properly

**1buffsob** · 05-23-2006, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

bro, i've made much better gains in the past on about 1000 cals less per day, i'm eating about 7000cals right now, no sh1t, i've been in the game a while bro

like i said, i am putting weight on, that is not the issue here, just not in the right places, then again i've never used doses this low before, so i've kind of answered my own question, just wondering the best plan of action to get the max out of this cycle

You're 190lbs, eating 7000kcals a day, and you wonder why you're gaining fat??

1buffsob

***BajanBastard*** · 05-23-2006, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

yo guys

i'm currently on 250mg test, 20mg dbol, and 400mg primo, 3 weeks in and excuse my french, but the gains are CRAP

and before you ask me about my diet, i am eating shitloads, i'm putting on weight, but, in terms of the mirror i'm just not responding as well as i have done on previous cycles, and from the looks of things the weight is all going to my midsection and arse, it sucks! and its depressing me

i'm tempted to up the test to 500, dbol to 30, and just act like i'm starting from scratch again, i feel fine and all, but normally a couple of weeks into cycles and i'm looking in the mirror thinking, hot damm! check out them muscles! but right now that ain't happening, and i'm worried that because i'm 3 weeks in already i've lost the shock and awe potential for them big explosive gains at the start of the cycle, sad and pissed off, not good!

Well i think here lies the problem.

**Liftnainez** · 05-23-2006, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

bro, i've made much better gains in the past on about 1000 cals less per day, i'm eating about 7000cals right now, no sh1t, i've been in the game a while bro

like i said, i am putting weight on, that is not the issue here, just not in the right places, then again i've never used doses this low before, so i've kind of answered my own question, just wondering the best plan of action to get the max out of this cycle

7,000 cals huh?

**The Godfather** · 05-23-2006, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

You're 190lbs, eating 7000kcals a day, and you wonder why you're gaining fat??

1buffsob

??... i'm currently 217

and i'm an ectomorph, i've got to be eating non-stop if i want to grow, on the plus side me adding fat dosen't mean i'm getting fat, it means i'm losing the viens and stirations in my abs, lol

am i cool to up the doses to 500 test then, i'll keep primo at 400, perhaps dbol just to 30-40mg for a couple of weeks

its my own fault, i drop the doses and now i complain that gains aren't as good as when i run twice the juice, oh well, you live and learn i guess!

**vitor** · 05-23-2006, 08:19 AM

Did you atleast front-load the Test and Primo?

If not, it will take some weeks before blood-levels gets peaked, and you are already on a very mild dose. I wouldnt expect anything dramatic from that cycle.

***BajanBastard*** · 05-23-2006, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by vitor

Did you atleast front-load the Test and Primo?

If not, it will take some weeks before blood-levels gets peaked, and you are already on a very mild dose. I wouldnt expect anything dramatic from that cycle.

Exactly. Remember 3200mg primo is roughly as effective as 100mg tren

so give it (lots) of time.

**1buffsob** · 05-23-2006, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

on the plus side me adding fat dosen't mean i'm getting fat

Really? What's it mean then?

1buffsob

**vitor** · 05-23-2006, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by big k.l.g

Exactly. Remember 3200mg primo is roughly as effective as 100mg tren

so give it (lots) of time.

Yes, thats what I would say, "roughly speaking".

**speak** · 05-23-2006, 08:37 AM

7000? please post your diet, just cause I'm trying to up my calories and having problems. I would love to see how you are getting 7000, also I never feel a single ester in three weeks, takes me about 5-6

**biglouie250** · 05-23-2006, 08:46 AM

not that i dont believe you cuz there isnt a reason to lie but id like to see the diet as well. im curious to see how often you eat, number of meals, how its spread out, etc.

***BajanBastard*** · 05-23-2006, 08:51 AM

I think he's over estimating his caloric intake but that's just me.

**Mesomorphyl** · 05-23-2006, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by big k.l.g

I think he's over estimating his caloric intake but that's just me.

he also over estimated the low dose... 250mg test? I would bump the test to at least 400-500mg and drop the primo until the end and use it for a couple weeks after the test right before recovery(it helped me with recovery). Bump the dbol to 35mg over the next few weeks too... you will be happier.

**1buffsob** · 05-23-2006, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by big k.l.g

I think he's over estimating his caloric intake but that's just me.

That, or an insane amount of shakes or junk. 5000kcals is hard to put down with clean whole food.

1buffsob

**AleX-69** · 05-23-2006, 09:11 AM

Well i eat 7k, too but only once a week on carb-load days

i'll outline my cal intake for you

8 Baegles (10g Prot / 60g Carbs / 5g Fat) > 80g Prot / 420g Carbs / 40g Fat
500g Pasta (12g Prot / 70g Carbs / 4g Fat) > 60g Prot / 350g Carbs / 20g Fat
2 Shake + Dextrose (50g Prot / 60g Cabrs / 10g Fat) > 100g Prot / 120g Carbs / 20g Fat
1 Liter of my fav soft drink (0 / 10 / 0) > 0g Prot / 100g carbs / 0g Fat
500g Pasta Sauce (3g Prot / 6g Carbs / 5g fat) > 15g Prot / 30g Carbs / 25g Fat
200g Cheese (5g Prot / 4g Carbs / 12g Fat)> 10g Prot / 8g Carbs / 24g Fat
1 Pizza [350g](10g Prot / 20g Carbs / 8g Fat) > 35g Prot / 70g Carbs / 28g Fat

in total this are: 300g Prot / 990g Carbs / 157g Fat

This are roughly 6.600 kcal.. + something +kcal here and there (oils, etc..)
I mostly eat carbs with high gly index but that is part of the diet i am follwoing + i only eat that much once a week...

So this is not very well suited as typical every day diet

**speak** · 05-23-2006, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

Well i eat 7k, too but only once a week on carb-load days

i'll outline my cal intake for you

8 Baegles (10g Prot / 60g Carbs / 5g Fat) > 80g Prot / 420g Carbs / 40g Fat
500g Pasta (12g Prot / 70g Carbs / 4g Fat) > 60g Prot / 350g Carbs / 20g Fat
2 Shake + Dextrose (50g Prot / 60g Cabrs / 10g Fat) > 100g Prot / 120g Carbs / 20g Fat
1 Liter of my fav soft drink (0 / 10 / 0) > 0g Prot / 100g carbs / 0g Fat
500g Pasta Sauce (3g Prot / 6g Carbs / 5g fat) > 15g Prot / 30g Carbs / 25g Fat
200g Cheese (5g Prot / 4g Carbs / 12g Fat)> 10g Prot / 8g Carbs / 24g Fat
1 Pizza [350g](10g Prot / 20g Carbs / 8g Fat) > 35g Prot / 70g Carbs / 28g Fat

in total this are: 300g Prot / 990g Carbs / 157g Fat

This are roughly 6.600 kcal.. + something +kcal here and there (oils, etc..)
I mostly eat carbs with high gly index but that is part of the diet i am follwoing + i only eat that much once a week...

So this is not very well suited as typical every day diet

haha, wtf?

**AleX-69** · 05-23-2006, 09:24 AM

... not kidding here bro.. might want to take a look into UD 2.0 to understand the principles behind. Similar to bodyopus if your familiar with that...

but seriously i would be interested in "godfathers" 7k - every -day- diet as well..

**1buffsob** · 05-23-2006, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

Well i eat 7k, too but only once a week on carb-load days

i'll outline my cal intake for you

8 Baegles (10g Prot / 60g Carbs / 5g Fat) > 80g Prot / 420g Carbs / 40g Fat
500g Pasta (12g Prot / 70g Carbs / 4g Fat) > 60g Prot / 350g Carbs / 20g Fat
2 Shake + Dextrose (50g Prot / 60g Cabrs / 10g Fat) > 100g Prot / 120g Carbs / 20g Fat
1 Liter of my fav soft drink (0 / 10 / 0) > 0g Prot / 100g carbs / 0g Fat
500g Pasta Sauce (3g Prot / 6g Carbs / 5g fat) > 15g Prot / 30g Carbs / 25g Fat
200g Cheese (5g Prot / 4g Carbs / 12g Fat)> 10g Prot / 8g Carbs / 24g Fat
1 Pizza [350g](10g Prot / 20g Carbs / 8g Fat) > 35g Prot / 70g Carbs / 28g Fat

in total this are: 300g Prot / 990g Carbs / 157g Fat

This are roughly 6.600 kcal.. + something +kcal here and there (oils, etc..)
I mostly eat carbs with high gly index but that is part of the diet i am follwoing + i only eat that much once a week...

So this is not very well suited as typical every day diet

I like to keep my fat intake A LOT lower on carb up days, but looks pretty decent. Still, even I couldn't eat that much everyday.

1buffsob

**AleX-69** · 05-23-2006, 09:29 AM

Concerning Fat Intake.. As i understand it fat will only be stored as body fat when muscle glycogen is completly replenished. So i eat most of the "fatty" food (pizza, etc) at the begining of my carb load when glycogen is still low..

Works good for me..

**speak** · 05-23-2006, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

... not kidding here bro.. might want to take a look into UD 2.0 to understand the principles behind. Similar to bodyopus if your familiar with that...

but seriously i would be interested in "godfathers" 7k - every -day- diet as well..

I am interested, I'll check it out, sounds fun.

**AleX-69** · 05-23-2006, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by speak

..sounds fun.

Well that is the only fun day.. the remaining days are more like hell..

**The Godfather** · 05-23-2006, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by speak

7000? please post your diet, just cause I'm trying to up my calories and having problems. I would love to see how you are getting 7000, also I never feel a single ester in three weeks, takes me about 5-6

meal 1 - 6 egg whites, 2 slices of thick wholemeal toast, 2 scoops of whey 100g oats, 1/2 pint of skim milk, large banana

meal 2 - 2 cans of tuna, plate of brown rice, wholemeal pitta, 2tbsp avocado, 3 inches of cucumber, 1 apple

meal 3 - chicken salsa sandwich, egg and cress sandwich, large bowl of weetabix or musli

meal 4 - 2 1/2 scoops of whey, 100g oats, 50g mixed nuts

meal 5 - 250g of extra lean mince, tsp of pesto, 1 egg white (added together and grilled to make a 1/2 pounder homemade burger), 1 wholemeal pitta, 1/2 plate of quinoa, tbsp salsa, 20g grated cheese, bowl of weetabix or musli

meal 6 - 2 cans of tuna, plate of brown rice, 30g dry roasted peanuts

meal 7 - 150g cottage cheese, 1 slice of wholemeal toast, tbsp SF PB, 1 scoop of whey

meal 8 (mid-night) - 2 scoops of whey, 50g oats, 30g dry roasted peanuts

i also have a PWO shake on workout days (currently 5 days per week), which is 3 scoops of ON whey, 40g of dextrose, 40g maltodextrin and ripe banana

its hard work, but i'm currently bodybuilding full time (currently on study leave, i have 6 exams next month, then nothing until next october) so i have plenty of time to make and prepare the meals, i was born to eat food and pump iron

**cfiler** · 05-23-2006, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

meal 1 - 6 egg whites, 2 slices of thick wholemeal toast, 2 scoops of whey 100g oats, 1/2 pint of skim milk, large banana

meal 2 - 2 cans of tuna, plate of brown rice, wholemeal pitta, 2tbsp avocado, 3 inches of cucumber, 1 apple

meal 3 - chicken salsa sandwich, egg and cress sandwich, large bowl of weetabix or musli

meal 4 - 2 1/2 scoops of whey, 100g oats, 50g mixed nuts

meal 5 - 250g of extra lean mince, tsp of pesto, 1 egg white (added together and grilled to make a 1/2 pounder homemade burger), 1 wholemeal pitta, 1/2 plate of quinoa, tbsp salsa, 20g grated cheese, bowl of weetabix or musli

meal 6 - 2 cans of tuna, plate of brown rice, 30g dry roasted peanuts

meal 7 - 150g cottage cheese, 1 slice of wholemeal toast, tbsp SF PB, 1 scoop of whey

meal 8 (mid-night) - 2 scoops of whey, 50g oats, 30g dry roasted peanuts

i also have a PWO shake on workout days (currently 5 days per week), which is 3 scoops of ON whey, 40g of dextrose, 40g maltodextrin and ripe banana

its hard work, but i'm currently bodybuilding full time (currently on study leave, i have 6 exams next month, then nothing until next october) so i have plenty of time to make and prepare the meals, i was born to eat food and pump iron

That's alot of tuna. I'd substitute some of it for chicken breasts, or other lean meat.