(Don`t forget your Tendons)

**goose** · 05-30-2006, 07:22 AM

Most the dude`s on here only think about size,what drugs will make me grow X amount in this cycle? To be more technical we are talking about protein synthesis let`s take the most loved drug here which is test this wonder hormone increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old Geezer or man or for some transvestite.I tell you this I love winny,it is a real muscle builder in a very pure form,it`s funney how some of the weak drugs build the muscle that turns me on...Pure muscle....not that bulk water shit that many like here.I`m a very lucky guy as I don`t have joint problems with winny but many guys here do,and I feel most don`t know why this occurs.Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you CHOOSE......

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and the great Primo will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan , @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

var has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis,tha`s why it`s great to be on this 80% of the year,hence why track runners love this shit. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures,so you can imagine what 15iu would be like. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS, the decision is up to you.

**marcus300** · 05-30-2006, 07:33 AM

Over the years ive had many tendon troubles/ injuries and there as been one drug which as helped dramatically and stopped the problems = HGH

Deca also use to help when i was using alot of weight with my joints but i haven't touch it for years now and haven't missed it at all,

Nice read goose

**powerliftmike** · 05-30-2006, 07:35 AM

Good post goose. I have yet to try test below 200mg/wk

I can def say winstrol messed me up pretty bad.

**goose** · 05-30-2006, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Over the years ive had many tendon troubles/ injuries and there as been one drug which as helped dramatically and stopped the problems = HGH

Deca also use to help when i was using alot of weight with my joints but i haven't touch it for years now and haven't missed it at all,

Nice read goose

Agreed mate,HGH has really benefited me in this manner,I really like the way you play with HGH, in Between cycles you run a low Maintenance to prevent these type of problems,then BOOM during cycle you look for the growth with the very high dose method of Shock and Awe....

**marcus300** · 05-30-2006, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by goose4

Agreed mate,HGH has really benefited me in this manner,I really like the way you play with HGH, in Between cycles you run a low Maintenance to prevent these type of problems,then BOOM during cycle you look for the growth with the very high dose method of Shock and Awe....

You got it goose

**aaronswt84** · 05-30-2006, 07:55 AM

too bad HGH costs so damn much, for poor college students it sucks

**C_Bino** · 05-30-2006, 08:00 AM

Thanks for this one Goose. I have been very lucky in that I haven't had any tendon problems aside from my knee problem that always plagues me.

But anyways good read and will definitely help people out.

**SBZ** · 05-30-2006, 08:03 AM

Interesting read....great post!

**goose** · 05-30-2006, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Thanks for this one Goose. I have been very lucky in that I haven't had any tendon problems aside from my knee problem that always plagues me.

But anyways good read and will definitely help people out.

Well bro,I looked at your profile and I cant find your age

LOL.

But I think your around my age,are body`s are build for survival,a side effect of evolution,Darwin said a male body peaks at 25,then it`s down hill.So what I`m saying is when we reach our 30`s this becomes a real threat to our Progress,but when you see guys like MR Coleman you can be in great shape for many years to come.

**C_Bino** · 05-30-2006, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by goose4

Well bro,I looked at your profile and I cant find your age

LOL.

But I think your around my age,are body`s are build for survival,a side effect of evolution,Darwin said a male body peaks at 25,then it`s down hill.So what I`m saying is when we reach our 30`s this becomes a real threat to our Progress,but when you see guys like MR Coleman you can be in great shape for many years to come.

Are you saying we are gonna die Goose? Really, good advice though, Im sure as I get older I will have to adjust my training accordingly or be more careful with myself. I dont wanna fall over and break my hip like booz.

I hid my age from you on purpose by the way.

Im a young one.

**taiboxa** · 05-30-2006, 08:38 AM

great post but u might wanna cite it

**Sharky72** · 05-30-2006, 10:08 AM

Good theory. And being 34 with a couple cycles under my belt, trust me I feel it in the morning and when I sit for long periods of time Lol ( tuff to stand straight) so I'll be experiencing with these protocalls. Thanks Goose

**Bigmax** · 05-30-2006, 10:23 AM

Excellent post goose,Funny thing is alot of people know about the adverse reactions of AAS but but do not heed the advise.They dont feel anything bad so they dont thing anything bad is happening Until bang there goes a Tri or a Bi maybe even a pec.As alot of people Dorian yates was succumbing to all types of injuries.

**vitor** · 05-30-2006, 11:29 AM

So Testosterone in higher dosages will make you more injury prone by decreasing collagen synthesis.

I wonder how Trenbolone affects collagen synthesis? (Tren wasnt mention.)

**RONINASAUNA** · 05-30-2006, 12:05 PM

if test decreases collagen synthesis so much....

why wouldn't everyone just do a 70% anabolic , 30% androgenic cycle??

thanks

**ODC0717** · 05-30-2006, 12:14 PM

Nice post goose.

**Mesomorphyl** · 05-30-2006, 12:16 PM

Repost, and nothing to support the findings. Nice try goose, a tad misleading.

**Thekidtmac** · 05-30-2006, 12:19 PM

Does Superdrol cause this? My shoulder has been a mess since my 2nd week of my first cycle.

**Liftnainez** · 05-30-2006, 01:08 PM

good post.. i liked it..

**Liftnainez** · 05-30-2006, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Thekidtmac

Does Superdrol cause this? My shoulder has been a mess since my 2nd week of my first cycle.

superdrol doesnt cause shoulder problems.. probably the increase of strength or the more push you are giving in your workouts are the reasons your shoulder hurts..

**taiboxa** · 05-30-2006, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Repost, and nothing to support the findings. Nice try goose, a tad misleading.

i kan say that deca only for extended periods of times helped me out immensely w/ my joints

**LatinoPR** · 05-30-2006, 03:03 PM

Now i understand why my knees hurts....!

**SHAGGY** · 05-31-2006, 04:07 AM

I don't like to post without contributing to anything, but I just have to congratulate you Goose4, this is a very informative and great thread.

Thanks.

SHAGGY

**FlyByU** · 05-31-2006, 05:17 AM

I surprised this post is still floating around the boards. The author was asked numerous times to provide references to back up his claims, but he was unable to do so and has since disappeared, never to be seen again. It turns out that he made the entire thing up.

**Thekidtmac** · 05-31-2006, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Liftnainez

superdrol doesnt cause shoulder problems.. probably the increase of strength or the more push you are giving in your workouts are the reasons your shoulder hurts..

What can I do to fix this?

**Liftnainez** · 06-17-2006, 07:40 PM

you can take glucosamine/chonroitin to help.. will take a few weeks to kick in.. and dont go so heay on your sets.. stay withing 10-25 rep range.. you an go do 8 but dont do reps where you can only get 2, 3, 4, 5...

**love 2 lift** · 06-17-2006, 08:06 PM

Bump!! for a great post!

**SMAN12b** · 06-17-2006, 09:14 PM

Great post GOOSE

**dimentia** · 06-17-2006, 10:21 PM

I'm on week 4 of 500mg/week of Test E and I have noticed my left sholder is killing me. it has always given me problems but not like this. I have plenty of deca and equipose and anavar but I was going to save them for a future cycle being this is my first cycle. Now I wished I listened to a friend of mine who told me that I should go ahead and include the deca and var on my first cycle. Everything I've read here suggests a test only first cycle but now I'm beginning to wonder. Good read Goose but I do have one question

Is it too late to include deca in my cycle? I was planning on running test e for 12 weeks and I'm about to start week 4

**Liftnainez** · 06-17-2006, 11:11 PM

you could run deca from weeks 4-11.. maybe this is not the most optimal way but it wont hurt you..

**dimentia** · 06-18-2006, 12:07 AM

why isn't it the most optimal way? I know typically you run them side by side but will it give me unstable hormone levels. Right now I'm doing 250mg twice a week of test e.

Anyway I can tough it out this cycle and save the deca for next time but I'm starting to wish I had listened to my friend about including it for the first cycle

**yom** · 06-18-2006, 01:25 AM

good thread goose. so stanzanol , eq ,,and test would be good ?

**toofatbuilder** · 06-18-2006, 01:48 AM

great post. theres a lot of guys (me) who still have a lot of learning to do before we think of doing our first cycle. the more good info i can absorb the better off i will be. thanks for the post goose....

**helium3** · 06-18-2006, 03:31 AM

good read,its made me think about putting eq or maybe decca in a short cycle not for gains but to stop the soreness i had coming off a test only cycle.

**taiboxa** · 06-18-2006, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by helium3

good read,its made me think about putting eq or maybe decca in a short cycle not for gains but to stop the soreness i had coming off a test only cycle.

i run deca /eq year round at low doses since deca does not induce deca dick when im not taking test.. nor do my nuts shrink.. Guess im just neat like that

and my joints love it

**Mesomorphyl** · 06-19-2006, 08:14 AM

Deca does work... but my point, there is alot of scientific jargon being thrown around without one citing or reference in the whole article.

I have seen it many times and cannot find where they came up with the percentages. So if someone were to look at that and believe it, they would think eq is good for their joints, which I have found is not the case. So, I find that article to be a tad misleading.

**helium3** · 06-19-2006, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Deca does work... but my point, there is alot of scientific jargon being thrown around without one citing or reference in the whole article.

I have seen it many times and cannot find where they came up with the percentages. So if someone were to look at that and believe it, they would think eq is good for their joints, which I have found is not the case. So, I find that article to be a tad misleading.

it sounds like it makes sense,i guess ill have to try it and see what happens as i come off.

**Mesomorphyl** · 06-19-2006, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by helium3

it sounds like it makes sense,i guess ill have to try it and see what happens as i come off.

Sounds like it based on %'s out of thin air. Deca is proven and I have experienced the properties that is talked about... The problem, not challenge, I have with the eq and primo is it does not act in the same way based on my experience and those around me as well as most on message boards. Deca has been used at 50-200mg ew just to help synovial fluid/joint elasicity. The rest of the article looks made up.