Advice for this cycle

[pauldpwriter]

Okay, first of all, greetings to all of you, I'm completely new to this forum; this is my first post.

I have the following gear at my disposal.

More than enough of the following for a 12 week cycle:
Dbol 10mg x300 or so
Clen in both pill and liquid forms (way more than I need)
cytomel x50 (50mcg/tab)
Sustanon (one ampule, 10ml, 250mg/ml)
Deca x8 amps (200mg/vial)
Also Nolvadex (full liquid bottle and 20 tablets)
Clomid (10 tabs and 50 doses of liquid)
Finasteride (liquid bottle)

I was going to run the Dbol (25mg/day), nolva(20mg/day), and clen (prolly 40mcg, whatever feels comfortable) for 4 weeks and then transition to include sustanon, deca and cytomel for 4-5 more weeks. PCT I was going to run the clomid, nolva and continue the clen and cytomel until it ran out, gradually reducing the dosage of cyto and clen.

My questions are whether or not this sounds like a good plan, and if not, how it may be modified to be most effective? My goals are to gain some solid muscle mass and lose fat with athletics in mind.

Should I also consider using HCG PCT? Especially if I were to be satisfied with only four weeks of Dbol, followed by a cessation of it's usage, replacing with deca and the rest?

I'm 5'9 at 199 pounds, about 20% body fat today. I'm a naturally easy gainer as well.

I really appreciate all the wisdom and help that can be given, and I want to be approach this with caution before just jumping into what appears to me to be quite a complicated science, proper steroid usage.

[Kale]

Dude I am glad you came to us first because the whole idea sucks !!! How old are you and what is your workout experience.

[AleX-69]

Okay, first of all, greetings to all of you, I'm completely new to this forum; this is my first post.

hi...

I was going to run the Dbol (25mg/day), nolva(20mg/day), and clen (prolly 40mcg, whatever feels comfortable) for 4 weeks and then transition to include sustanon, deca and cytomel for 4-5 more weeks. PCT I was going to run the clomid, nolva and continue the clen and cytomel until it ran out, gradually reducing the dosage of cyto and clen.

... ouch...

My questions are whether or not this sounds like a good plan, and if not, how it may be modified to be most effective? My goals are to gain some solid muscle mass and lose fat with athletics in mind.

Very bad plan. You NEED more test if you want to do a sucessful cycle, especially when having athletics in mind. Dude do you know d-bol (and clen also) will wreck on your areobic capabilities like there is no tomorrow? Do some research.. Kale posted an excelent thread on how to research which is a sticky actually.

I'm 5'9 at 199 pounds, about 20% body fat today. I'm a naturally easy gainer as well.

With 20% BF I wouldn't even consider starting a cycle. Loose that fat first until you are in a respeptable BF-range (15% at MAX). The more fat you have the more unwanted estrogen related side effects you will expierence.

I really appreciate all the wisdom and help that can be given, and I want to be approach this with caution before just jumping into what appears to me to be quite a complicated science, proper steroid usage.

Good choice coming to this board and asking those questions. Sorry if i was a lil harsh in the above posts.. Do your research, loose some fat, optimize diet and training.. and then think about introducing AAS. That is when you will get the most out of it IMO.

AleX

[pauldpwriter]

Thanks! no really, I do appreciate frank advice. Unfortunately I need the underlying reasons why it's a bad idea and what's wrong with it.

Today's BF% is 17%, btw. it fluctuates between 11-20%. I can never get it below 11%, and that took a few weeks of a diet of just vitamins, milk, chicken breast, broccoli and tilapia to achieve.


I've actually spent about 6 months researching these drugs on this site and others but apparently came to the wrong conclusions.

I was under the impression that dbol and deca together created better gains than either by itself. I was also under the impression that sustanon was needed because deca suppressed natural testosterone . Also that nolva could be run alongside either to prevent estrogen related side effects. As for the clenbuterol , I had thought it would balance the anti-catabolic phase post cycle. The cytomel was for the purpose of losing fat because it stacks so well with clen .

Am I wrong in saying that gaining muscle and losing fat go hand in hand? With the exception of course that dbol causes significant gain in both, wouldn't the nolva help with this? As well as pc clen and cyto.


I've heard now it's a bad idea, but not much into why. Perhaps imagine the question this way
If you had what I listed above, what cycle would you best create for athletics.

I'm 19. My athletic history, well it's nothing amazing...

Soccer from age 5-15
Track from 9-17 (sprinting mainly)
Weight training and general aerobics on and off for periods of up to 6 months from 14 on. I've been on the last couple of months lifting at a local gym and will start my formal martial arts training (Karate and Judo to begin with) in August.

So kick starting a cycle with dbol for four weeks then switching to Deca with supplemental testosterone for 4-6 more weeks with nolva the entire time is a bad idea? The additional muscle can't be kept to some degree pct at least long enough to aid the clen and cyto that is being used to burn off more fat?

Wouldn't clomid, HCG and nolva also restore my hormone levels when used in the dosages and ranges described in the steroid cycles section of the accompanying anabolicreview site?

What I assumed would happen initially with this cycle was that I'd gain quite a bit of fat and muscle with the dbol, then transition into slower gains with the deca and small doses of sustanon while burning more energy in my workouts with the cyto and clen.
I've been on the dbol for a couple of weeks with 20mg nolva a day and haven't noticed much water retention, nor acne, at all. I have however been much more aggressive in my workouts, and I like the sense of well being. As for my aerobic endurance, I haven't noticed any difference. I thought the clen, in fact, being related to albuterol, might help my breathing.

Or perhaps I should skip the dbol altogether, and just do the deca/sustanon/clen/cyto together, as it was sold as a cycle together in the first place. The dbol I simply had previously, and heard in combination with deca it achieved greater results, I reiterate. However dbol has a relatively high degree of side effects.

It could go something like this...

Week1-3: Dbol 20mg/day, nolva as neccessary
week4-8: Dbol 10mg/day, deca 200-400mg/week, sustanon 200mg/week, nolva and/or letrozole (as it works best for deca side effects) and clomid if neccessary for gyno.
PCT: Nolva, clomid, HCG (500IU daily for 10 days?)
Then 2 weeks this runs out, and I switch to Cyto and Clen for a round of those.
When that's done, I switch back to my normal training regiment and expect some loses.


My long term goals are a higher strength to weight ratio, great endurance, and low body fat. I don't care so much about keeping the majority of gains, but will accept what can be had.


So what do I need FOR THE CYCLE. More test? How much should I be using at a minimum to combat the natural lack of it due to deca? is 200mg/week not sufficient?

[flyhalf]

id lower body fat and run test e/c by itself for your first cycle. dont even mess with the dbol or deca . also running both of them by thereself is insane.

[flyhalf]

500mg per week on test e/c

[pauldpwriter]

Thanks man.

A personal trainer from my gym just contacted me for some free sessions, so that's great news for my wallet

What do you think about just running the Clen and cyto to get the body fat down while working out naturally? I can always save the rest for later if I decide I need it. But I will want to use it or do something with it eventually, I spent about a grand in the last year getting this stuff together.

Can I use just the testosterone blends with the clen safely?

[Swifto]

AS is what you need right now, research is. researching AS, their actions, synergy, side effects, dosages, their durations, individual sides, how to prevent sides and PCT protocols is what you want to look into. research AI's, SERMS, esters etc..

Your not ready to use AS. This is evident by your thread.

As stated above, start with a single estered Testosterone cycle, lasting for 8-14 weeks. Depending on your goals and the ester. Most start on 250-500mg/wk of Test Enan or Cyp, along with an AI. PCT to follow.

You have a lot of work to do IMHO and all the knowledge you need is here on this site. Spend some time in the educational forum.

[flyhalf]

i just saw your age. 19 right. take my advice and may i remind you that i gain nothing from telling you this. dont even think about doing AAS for another 5-6 years. not only will you be screwing up your body by taking them now but you have plenty of natural test to get the job done. i waited (and trust me i know its hard) but your physically to young to be taking them. gonna do more damage than good and you honestly dont need them right now. not trying to be your daddy, just your big brother if you catch my drift.

[pdog80]

You need some work on diet. Go to the diet forum. For the next 3-4 years, you need to get your bf% down and add some lean mass before you even consider AAS. Oh and soccer doesn't count as lifting experience.

[pauldpwriter]

Thanks for all the help.
I'm not out to be gigantically muscular, so the soccer does account for something. It accounts for aerobic endurance, and we know that aerobic exercise helps regulate the increases in blood pressure caused by certain AS, quite possibly the easiest remedy for this side effect.


Flyhalf I appreciate your experience, but can you elaborate on the possible consequences of using them now? In the long term? I'm not worried about stunted growth, as my growing is about done. But what else could happen? I'll do some more research of course.

Is it safe to use the clen and cyto at this age to reduce body fat? I've used clen alone in the past and had great results with it, but gradually gained back body fat after discontinuing it's usage, and due to intermittent periods of inactivity.
My body fat seems to fluctuate a lot, today it was measured electronically at 17.9%, a few days ago at 20. I attribute this to exercise and diet. It's likely not water weight, as that is still sitting at 58% +- 1% on average.


**** what am I going to do with all this stuff, I'll have to research the shelf lives at various temperatures and storage methods. I think the dbol is good for at least a couple years. Don't know about the ampules and PCT stuff.

[flyhalf]

just to name a few
sterility
acne
premature ossification
connective tissue injury - irreversible

how long have you been training and by training i mean lifting weight?

you will be way better off going natural now and hitting the AAS in your mid 20's. if you take my advice and the advice of others on this site you are going to be way better off. plenty of time to get big and strong, no rush, so dont be a fool.

[pauldpwriter]

I've been weight lifting since I was about 14, which I was told was too young to start (was told to wait till 16) but I've been into it, although not with complete commitment, ever since.

I just got back into it a couple months ago, and have only recently been going several times weekly.
From the age of 18-19 I didn't really go to the weights at all hardly, preferring in that period to focus on indoor rock climbing on artificial walls. This caused me to focus on strength to weight ratio, flexibility, and overall weight loss. I went down to about 180 pounds in that time. Anyway now I'm more into traditional athletics, namely running and unarmed combat, MMA especially.

I can bench 200 currently, I could do 300 naturally after 6 months when I was 16.

I can leg press about 900 pounds at a rate of about 6 reps x3-4 sets. This really gets me going, makes my body shake after I'm done.
I can pull down about 275 pounds 6 reps on average.
I can arm curl (both arms) only about 80 pounds x6-8 reps. Triceps are slightly stronger.

I can calf press (I think it's called) the max on the cybex machines which I think is about 300 pounds. This I can do about 25 times. I can only squat about 350 pounds due to the pain it puts on my shoulders.
I don't know my max on a deadlift, only that I can pick up a .350 chevy block.
With my abs I can crunch about 110 pounds x10 reps.
Again these are all averages, I can't always do that many reps or sets, and sometimes I can do more. I'm pretty inconsistent.
I crave more overall strength, and I lack patience, but I'm working on it.

I can jog at 6 miles per hour for about 15 minutes nonstop. Beyond that it's walk run, walk run, gasp.

This is what I did last time I went to the gym, two days ago, not very impressive.