First cycle opinions?

**tdoby** · 08-13-2006, 08:13 PM

This is my first cycle start 170 pounds.

Stanotest 100 mg (winstrol 50mg, suspension test 50mg) Every other day for 8 weeks.

140 mcg clenbuterol every day

10 mg nolva every day

**Kale** · 08-13-2006, 08:15 PM

How old are you ? Clen is used for PCT not during a cycle and you generally start at 20mg not 140mg

**tdoby** · 08-13-2006, 08:16 PM

20 i worked my way up 20 mcg a day from 20mcg of clen

**Beefyman** · 08-13-2006, 08:17 PM

bro i am new this this too... but you should really learn about PCT and from what i hear from very smart members (kale) and a few other that helped me with my fix my cycle but all of them said

500mgs test per week 2x shots
5mg nolva per day
PCT clomid + nolva

**tdoby** · 08-13-2006, 08:22 PM

200 mg of suspension test per week isint enough?

**tdoby** · 08-13-2006, 08:43 PM

bump

**Anabolios** · 08-13-2006, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Beefyman

bro i am new this this too... but you should really learn about PCT and from what i hear from very smart members (kale) and a few other that helped me with my fix my cycle but all of them said

500mgs test per week 2x shots
5mg nolva per day
PCT clomid + nolva

500mg of test....what ester? Some can't be shot twice a week such as suspension which should be shot minimum ED sometimes twice a day. Suspension is not a good choice for a first cycle IMHO. 5mg of nolva also wouldn't be enough IMO as well. Test that is shot 2x weekly would be enanthate ,cypionate ,decanoate just to name a few because of their long ester.

tdoby...200mg of test is very low and suspension has to be shot ED. Watch out I hear it's painful!

**italianplayboy09** · 08-13-2006, 09:55 PM

he could start the nolva at 5mg ED and if he starts to see gyno issues then he could bump it up IMO. also run the nolva in pct at 20mg ED

**Tactikz** · 08-13-2006, 09:55 PM

Garbage.

All you need for your first cycle is 250mg of Test (QUALITY GEAR) for 12-16 weeks.

**Hellmaskbanned** · 08-13-2006, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

Garbage.

All you need for your first cycle is 250mg of Test (QUALITY GEAR) for 12-16 weeks.

Why so long?

**italianplayboy09** · 08-13-2006, 09:57 PM

garbage?

you dont have to only take test for a first cycle. what he has isnt too bad of a first cycle. pretty simple if you ask me

**Anabolios** · 08-13-2006, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

Garbage.

All you need for your first cycle is 250mg of Test (QUALITY GEAR) for 12-16 weeks.

A bit long don't you think? Even though it is a low dose..it's a while to be suppressed/shutdown. 500mg for a 10 week run would be beter IMO.

And 5mg/nolva is VERY low...I'd say 10mg would even be a conservative dose.

**italianplayboy09** · 08-13-2006, 10:00 PM

i agree that its pretty low but i guess it just depends if youre gyno prone b/c i knew of someone that took nolva 5mg ED and was fine

**Tactikz** · 08-13-2006, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Anabolios

A bit long don't you think? Even though it is a low dose..it's a while to be suppressed/shutdown. 500mg for a 10 week run would be beter IMO.

And 5mg/nolva is VERY low...I'd say 10mg would even be a conservative dose.

More for a shorter period of time doesn't equate to greater gains. Taking a less amount for a longer period of time would ultimately result in a slower growth rate making the muscle more permanent as opposed to trying to stack on size with more gear.

With a low dose you're going to get shut down either way, running 12-16 weeks isn't that long when you look at the scope of things. With proper PCT and time off, you'll be better off with the added weeks and a lower dose as opposed to doubling your dose and cutting down to 10 weeks.

I can guarantee you'll get more gains with the same diet/workout regime if you were to run 250mg Test for 12-16 weeks compared to 500mg Test for 10 weeks.

More importantly, you'll keep more of your gains.

**tdoby** · 08-13-2006, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Anabolios

500mg of test....what ester? Some can't be shot twice a week such as suspension which should be shot minimum ED sometimes twice a day. Suspension is not a good choice for a first cycle IMHO. 5mg of nolva also wouldn't be enough IMO as well. Test that is shot 2x weekly would be enanthate ,cypionate ,decanoate just to name a few because of their long ester.

tdoby...200mg of test is very low and suspension has to be shot ED. Watch out I hear it's painful!

the winstrol and test is mixed in the same bottle if i were to do it ed i would be doing 50mg winny everyday ....can i do that and for how long?

**Hellmaskbanned** · 08-13-2006, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

More for a shorter period of time doesn't equate to greater gains. Taking a less amount for a longer period of time would ultimately result in a slower growth rate making the muscle more permanent as opposed to trying to stack on size with more gear.

With a low dose you're going to get shut down either way, running 12-16 weeks isn't that long when you look at the scope of things. With proper PCT and time off, you'll be better off with the added weeks and a lower dose as opposed to doubling your dose and cutting down to 10 weeks.

I can guarantee you'll get more gains with the same diet/workout regime if you were to run 250mg Test for 12-16 weeks compared to 500mg Test for 10 weeks.

More importantly, you'll keep more of your gains.

I'm sure It would be alot harder for your hormone levels to recover from a 16 week run then a 10 week run. But with a faster recovery more gains maintained.

**Tactikz** · 08-13-2006, 10:07 PM

Any pics or lab info?

**LatinoPR** · 08-13-2006, 10:07 PM

Dude,go to the newbies cycles,and then if you have any question you can ask...search first,then ask....we are here to help.

LPR ...dermatology

**tdoby** · 08-13-2006, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by LatinoPR

Dude,go to the newbies cycles,and then if you have any question you can ask...search first,then ask....we are here to help.

LPR ...dermatology

yea but noone on here seems to have heard of stanotest

**Tactikz** · 08-13-2006, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hellmask

I'm sure It would be alot harder for your hormone levels to recover from a 16 week run then a 10 week run. But with a faster recovery more gains maintained.

I would have to argue with you respectfully and disagree.

Once you're shut down, you're shut down physiologically regardless of the length of time.

It's how frequent you shut yourself down that matters, not the length medically speaking. If you were to run the juice for 6-8 months, I can see that being a problem, but generally adding in 2-4 extra weeks on a 10 week cycle won't do much more harm then what you're already doing.

As per gains, you're putting your body through more trauma by adding in 500mg Test for 10 weeks as opposed to 250mg Test for 12-16. I've ran extreme high cycles and low cycles and I can honestly say I've had the least amount, if any, side effects from low cycles with the same, if not more, gains.

**Anabolios** · 08-13-2006, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Hellmask

I'm sure It would be alot harder for your hormone levels to recover from a 16 week run then a 10 week run. But with a faster recovery more gains maintained.

Well spoken.
tdoby...don't mention the lab name..it's an awful combo unless you are an experienced user. Awful beginner combo. Use a single ester testosterone .

**Anabolios** · 08-13-2006, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

I would have to argue with you respectfully and disagree.

Once you're shut down, you're shut down physiologically regardless of the length of time.

It's how frequent you shut yourself down that matters, not the length medically speaking. If you were to run the juice for 6-8 months, I can see that being a problem, but generally adding in 2-4 extra weeks on a 10 week cycle won't do much more harm then what you're already doing.

As per gains, you're putting your body through more trauma by adding in 500mg Test for 10 weeks as opposed to 250mg Test for 12-16. I've ran extreme high cycles and low cycles and I can honestly say I've had the least amount, if any, side effects from low cycles with the same, if not more, gains.

Interesting. Still better for a newb to AAS keep the run short and sweet.

**tdoby** · 08-13-2006, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Anabolios

Well spoken.
tdoby...don't mention the lab name..it's an awful combo unless you are an experienced user. Awful beginner combo. Use a single ester testosterone.

sorry..... would i be able to do this ed tho?

**Hellmaskbanned** · 08-13-2006, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

I would have to argue with you respectfully and disagree.

Once you're shut down, you're shut down physiologically regardless of the length of time.
It's how frequent you shut yourself down that matters, not the length medically speaking. If you were to run the juice for 6-8 months, I can see that being a problem, but generally adding in 2-4 extra weeks on a 10 week cycle won't do much more harm then what you're already doing.

As per gains, you're putting your body through more trauma by adding in 500mg Test for 10 weeks as opposed to 250mg Test for 12-16. I've ran extreme high cycles and low cycles and I can honestly say I've had the least amount, if any, side effects from low cycles with the same, if not more, gains.

The longer your body is shut down, the more it gets accustemed to these conditions. Your right once your shut down your shut down. So why not get the most gains from your cycle? 500mgs will produce more gains than 250 hands down. More sides maybe, maybe not. Up to what side effects he's sensitive to really. I think the body would be put through more trauma on a longer cycle on a lower dose, than lets say a normal dosed cycle thats 4-6 weeks shorter. I'm looking at his hormones & HPTA standpoint, not at bloat & other stuff that can happen from both doses.

**Tactikz** · 08-13-2006, 10:25 PM

Would 500mg produce more gains than 250mg for a FIRST cycle? I would beg to differ.

Maybe for a more experienced user, but for a first time juicer, I would think the difference would be completely minimal.

**Kale** · 08-13-2006, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

Would 500mg produce more gains than 250mg for a FIRST cycle? I would beg to differ.

Maybe for a more experienced user, but for a first time juicer, I would think the difference would be completely minimal.

Hey mate you obviously have a lot of experience that you can share with is here, can you give us some background on what you have done cycle wise in the past ?

**Hellmaskbanned** · 08-13-2006, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

Would 500mg produce more gains than 250mg for a FIRST cycle? I would beg to differ.

Maybe for a more experienced user, but for a first time juicer, I would think the difference would be completely minimal.

In ten weeks I think it would...Is'nt that why you extended your 250mgs cycle to 16 weeks to make gains comparible?

**Tactikz** · 08-13-2006, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Kale

Hey mate you obviously have a lot of experience that you can share with is here, can you give us some background on what you have done cycle wise in the past ?

My first cycle ever was

Weeks 1-12 - 500mg Karachi Sust (2x250mg - week)
Weeks 1-12 - 400mg Deca
Weeks 1-6 - 40mg D-Bol ED
Weeks 12-15 - 50mg Fina ED
Weeks 16 - 20 - PCT

I shot up almost 50lbs in 3-4 months with this cycle and kept around 20-25. It did the job I wanted it to do. I shot up from 185-235.

I then did several cycles mainly around Test/Fina/Winny that ranged from 1g of Test a week to as low as 200mg of Test a week.

I went clean almost 2 years ago. However, I may get back into it.

When I was 235 I would say I was at aroudn 13-14%bf, and when I cut down I was aroudn 195 at 7-8% which was extremely difficult for me to maintain.

**Hellmaskbanned** · 08-13-2006, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

My first cycle ever was

Weeks 1-12 - 500mg Karachi Sust (2x250mg - week)
Weeks 1-12 - 400mg Deca
Weeks 1-6 - 40mg D-Bol ED
Weeks 12-15 - 50mg Fina ED
Weeks 16 - 20 - PCT

I shot up almost 50lbs in 3-4 months with this cycle and kept around 20-25. It did the job I wanted it to do. I shot up from 185-235.

I then did several cycles mainly around Test/Fina/Winny that ranged from 1g of Test a week to as low as 200mg of Test a week.

I went clean almost 2 years ago. However, I may get back into it.

When I was 235 I would say I was at aroudn 13-14%bf, and when I cut down I was aroudn 195 at 7-8% which was extremely difficult for me to maintain.

Thats one crazy first cycle!

**Kale** · 08-13-2006, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

My first cycle ever was

Weeks 1-12 - 500mg Karachi Sust (2x250mg - week)
Weeks 1-12 - 400mg Deca
Weeks 1-6 - 40mg D-Bol ED
Weeks 12-15 - 50mg Fina ED
Weeks 16 - 20 - PCT

I shot up almost 50lbs in 3-4 months with this cycle and kept around 20-25. It did the job I wanted it to do. I shot up from 185-235.

I then did several cycles mainly around Test/Fina/Winny that ranged from 1g of Test a week to as low as 200mg of Test a week.

I went clean almost 2 years ago. However, I may get back into it.

When I was 235 I would say I was at aroudn 13-14%bf, and when I cut down I was aroudn 195 at 7-8% which was extremely difficult for me to maintain.

Kewl thanks for the reply. So what was your experience with 200mg to 1G of Test, I have done 500mg and 1.5G and I did not notice one bit of difference. Now I am 51 so it may be a little different phsyciologically for me though.

**Kale** · 08-13-2006, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Hellmask

Thats one crazy first cycle!

Mine was Test, Deca and Var

**Tactikz** · 08-13-2006, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hellmask

Thats one crazy first cycle!

lol, trust me, I knew. haha...

**Tactikz** · 08-13-2006, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kale

Kewl thanks for the reply. So what was your experience with 200mg to 1G of Test, I have done 500mg and 1.5G and I did not notice one bit of difference. Now I am 51 so it may be a little different phsyciologically for me though.

The main differences I noticed between 250mg of Test vs. 1g of Test was the side effecst.

1g of Test = water retention (edema), High BP, acne, muscle spasms, aches, pains and general feeling of unhealthiness

200mg of Test = No side effects

Muscle gains I'd say were almost equal on both. That's why I now favour lower dosages. IMO, high dosages are a business scam. The people who truly push high dosages are dealers looking to cash in, when, in my personal experience, I've noticed that the lower dosages work equally as well and leave me healthy.

I get my blood work done regularly and I'm 100% fine. When I was running 1g of Test, my BP was 160/140 which scared the shit out of me. I quickly got off and my cycle after that I ran 200mg of Test with the same diet and my BP was 110/70. Loved it.

**Liftnainez** · 08-14-2006, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Tactikz

The main differences I noticed between 250mg of Test vs. 1g of Test was the side effecst.

1g of Test = water retention (edema), High BP, acne, muscle spasms, aches, pains and general feeling of unhealthiness

200mg of Test = No side effects

Muscle gains I'd say were almost equal on both. That's why I now favour lower dosages. IMO, high dosages are a business scam. The people who truly push high dosages are dealers looking to cash in, when, in my personal experience, I've noticed that the lower dosages work equally as well and leave me healthy.

I get my blood work done regularly and I'm 100% fine. When I was running 1g of Test, my BP was 160/140 which scared the shit out of me. I quickly got off and my cycle after that I ran 200mg of Test with the same diet and my BP was 110/70. Loved it.

interseting

**mkrulic** · 08-14-2006, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by tdoby

This is my first cycle start 170 pounds.

Stanotest 100 mg (winstrol 50mg, suspension test 50mg) Every other day for 8 weeks.

140 mcg clenbuterol every day

10 mg nolva every day

I didnt notice if anyone else mentioned this but this cannot be taken eod. 5 half lives is considered zero, the half of tne is like 6 hours. 5*6=30hrs. at eod you'd be starting all over...over and over

**duke911** · 08-14-2006, 08:24 AM

20 years old is probably a little young, IMO. But I think you could definitely do better for a first cycle than this one. Do about 6 more months of research and then research some more. Read all of the steroid profiles too. My first and only cycle (about 1 year ago) was tbol, test e, var, (12 weeks)then pct. I started at 350 mg of test e but eventually increased it to 500 simply to simplify the measuring. I think this was a good choice for ME. The benefits were noticible with the small increase and the side effects were NONE. BTW, dont forget to thoroughly research pct and purchase everything you need at one time, so your not scrambling at the last minute. PCT was quite a challenge for me. If you have any further questions feel free to email. Hope my experience helped you out a little. Good luck and keep us posted.

**Duke of Earl** · 08-14-2006, 10:11 AM

ok

1. a bit too young for AAS
2. depends on height, but @170lbs prolly more natrual growth to be had with good diet / training regardless of age
3. winny needs to be shot ED
4. test susp needs to be shot 2 x ED
5. winny is 17aa so you shouldn't run it over 6 weeks without blood tests
6. research your cycles b4 you buy your gear !!

So i'd say don't do it for a year or two, train & eat like a be-atch, then when ur ready 400mg of Test Enan EW will be simple & effective.