Milk Thistle

[Daemonn]

I am pretty sure I read someplace that, contrary to common belief, milk thistle does help with the absorption of protein/nutrients? Anyone with more info please reply. Thanks.

[Daemonn]

bump

[rake922]

I know people mean well with reccomending the 'liver protection supplements', but it's pretty much a huge racket to make people money.

These products (liver protectors) were designed to offset the symptoms
of bacterial or viral hepatitis and fatty liver disease/cirrhosis. Yes, in
those conditions, LFT's may be elevated quite a bit but the underlying
mechanism causing the increase in LFT's is vastly different then the
*potential* rise in LFT's related to C-17a alkylated steroids .

So these "liver supps" probably won't do squat WRT to "protecting
your liver" against this mysterious quasi-phantom "liver problem"
everyone thinks orals cause.

Your liver is a very resilient organ - you would have to be down to
less than 10% liver function before you would die as an FYI

Liver toxicity is overblown (greatly) and has only been documented
with the methylated stuff and only with a few of them anyhow.
And, liver enzyme levels will usually, but not always, go back to normal
within 90 days of someone stopping use all on their own.

Just because oral steroids "allegedly" cause transaminase levels to rise
a bit DOES NOT MEAN that the supplements you buy and use are going
to reverse this (even if a bunch of good bros here who mean well are
repeating unsubstantiated 'advice' they heard here or read over 'there'.

There is no proof...even of the really "stretched and embellished" proof
that these liver "protectors" will protect against a rise in LFT's related
to methyl anabolic oral use.

[rake922]

Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated?



Researchers: Dickerman RD, Pertusi RM, Zachariah NY, Dufour DR, McConathy WJ

The Department of Biomedical Science, University of North Texas Health Science Center, Fort Worth 76107-2699, USA.

Source: Clin J Sport Med 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9

Summary:

Subjects: The participants were bodybuilders taking self-directed regimens of anabolic steroids (n = 15) and bodybuilders not taking steroids (n = 10). Blood chemistry profiles from patients with viral hepatitis (n = 49) and exercising and non-exercising medical students (592) were used as controls.

Measurements: The focus of the blood chemistry profiles was on aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT), and creatine kinase (CK) levels. (All indicators of liver function.)

Results: In both groups of bodybuilders, CK, AST, and ALT were elevated, whereas GGT remained in the normal range. In contrast, patients with hepatitis had elevations of all three enzymes: ALT, AST, and GGT. Creatine kinase (CK) was elevated in all exercising groups. Patients with hepatitis were the only group in which a correlation was found between aminotransferases and GGT.

OBJECTIVE: There have been numerous reports of hepatic dysfunction secondary to anabolic steroid use based on elevated levels of serum aminotransferases. This study was conducted to distinguish between serum aminotransaminase elevations secondary to intense resistance training and anabolic steroid -induced hepatotoxicity in elite bodybuilders. DESIGN: This was a case-control study of serum chemistry profiles from bodybuilders using and not using anabolic steroids with comparisons to a cohort of medical students and patients with hepatitis. PARTICIPANTS: The participants were bodybuilders taking self-directed regimens of anabolic steroids (n = 15) and bodybuilders not taking steroids (n = 10). Blood chemistry profiles from patients with viral hepatitis (n = 49) and exercising and nonexercising medical students (592) were used as controls. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The focus in blood chemistry profiles was aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT), and creatine kinase (CK) levels. RESULTS: In both groups of bodybuilders, CK, AST, and ALT were elevated, whereas GGT remained in the normal range. In contrast, patients with hepatitis had elevations of all three enzymes: ALT, AST, and GGT. Creatine kinase (CK) was elevated in all exercising groups. Patients with hepatitis were the only group in which a correlation was found between aminotransferases and GGT. CONCLUSION: Prior reports of anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity based on elevated aminotransferase levels may have been overstated, because no exercising subjects, including steroid users, demonstrated hepatic dysfunction based on GGT levels. Such reports may have misled the medical community to emphasize steroid-induced hepatotoxicity when interpreting elevated aminotransferase levels and disregard muscle damage. For these reasons, when evaluating hepatic function in cases of anabolic steroid therapy or abuse, CK and GGT levels should be considered in addition to ALT and AST levels as essential elements of the assessment.

[lawsey000]

Well I'll be damned. I was about to head out tomorrow and pick up some milk thistle for my 4 week dbol kickstart, but this thread makes me think twice. Quite the cash grab I see. I'm reconsidering.....


Milk Thistle users ----------> <------- U of North Texas Scientists

[Venomous Nemisis]

Good read, Rake. Thanks

[mesoman]

i agreee with rake here, the liver has a tremendous capacity to repair and regegenerate even if damaged, did u knowat when they transplant a liver they cut it into more than one piece and pt one part in several recipients... each one grows to a normal size!. only when the liver is chronically and constanly overloaded eg lifeling alcoholics, hepatitis etc wille liver eventualy fail. a few courses of supplements whilst may cause a temporary disturbance of liver function tests is extrmey unlikely to cause irrecoverable dameade but th abnormal LFT just serve as a warning that the liver is not happy and is saying.. back off guys and ill i need time to recover. IE money on milkthisle will helps u feel better not your liver