when to up calories and training volume/intensity on a cycle?

[helium3]

[vitor]

Priming before a short cycle is such a huge advantage as from not doing it. Ive done 2 short burst cycles now, one of them without any serious prime(because I didnt think it would matter to much), but the diffrence was "night and day".

And when bulking(after a prime)the high carbs will not be stored as bodyfat nearly as easy as on a regular diet-bulking/cycle, so thats a plus too.

[marcus300]

Priming before a short cycle is such a huge advantage as from not doing it. Ive done 2 short burst cycles now, one of them without any serious prime(because I didnt think it would matter to much), but the diffrence was "night and day".
And when bulking(after a prime)the high carbs will not be stored as bodyfat nearly as easy as on a regular diet-bulking/cycle, so thats a plus too.

The prime is one of the most important things you will learn in bodybuilding, it will make any steriod cycle ten times more effective, 1 example is the above and i have plenty more, use the system and create the growth spurt and make your gear 100% more effective, many pro's use this system this is why so many do shows and still carry on building tissue.

[stupidhippo]

i also noticed that priming certainly works but 10 times more effective? are u exaggerrating a lil ?

[IBdmfkr]

I'd say "no"... here's my reasoning.

I've always gained approx 5-10lbs LBM from a 8-16wk cycle without knowing anything about "priming" in the past.

Recently I dieted for a contest and got the rebound effect from unknowingly "priming" my body, I put on close to 40lbs post contest, No I didn't put on 40lbs of muscle, I'd say it was in the ball park of 20-25lbs of actual muscle.. Here's how I came up with that numbers.
Pre contest weight was around 203 at 12%, I dieted and showed at around 180lbs at 3-4%. I'm currently 220ish at say around 10%. So obviously I put back on a bit of water(8-10lbs?), approx 10-12lbs of fat and the rest muscle.

I'm sold.

[stupidhippo]

yeah im not saying it isnt really worki9ng but even ifu count it like taht it still doesnt get up to ten times more effective.... but yeah, those are impressive numbers: for me it didnt go as well, but then again I might not be doing as good as u. I dropped 20 lbs while priming to 240. Now I am 265... Im on week 9. That means 25 lbs so far.. Usually I put on about 20 - 25 lbs per cycle. Ofcourse I can t mange to hold onto them in PCT. But on th e+ side: I am considerably leaner cause I didnt gain the fat back I lost while priming. Obviously I have a lot to learn.

[IBdmfkr]

If you're normally putting on 25lbs each cycle then most is fat or water.. I'd say your diet is far from perfect in this case.

Most more advanced ppl will be Lucky! if they can put on 5-10lbs of muscle.. sometimes only a few lbs of Actual muscle. You've got to get your bodyfat % taken before and after to see how you progressed, also compensate for water retention etc..

There are so many factors, if you can't hold you muscle from a cycle then you need to really analyze what you're doing, something is off.

[stupidhippo]

i know sumin is off.. but lm afraid its because im close to my natural potential... I hope its not so. Other alternatives are overtraining in PCT... or starting to shed fat too early.... IMO what supports the natural limit theory is that I manage to keep gains in my legs cause they were at a lower level.. now that they hae caught up im noticing their gains are hard tyo keep also.. How long are u off? and what u do in the off periods? Cause I dont lose much in PCT, I lose most gradually between 3-6 months off. slowly and steadily.. so basically all my cycles I have gained like it was my first cycle.. cause I also end up before it to where I was naturally.. only difference is I have less fat now. also I dont gain that much fat when on... mabe some but not that much... decent amount of water though..

[IBdmfkr]

Your natural potential? I don't get it.. you aren't natural. You need to eat adequate calories to support the new muscle and keep the workouts intense but not overtrain.

[stupidhippo]

well what I mean that I was at a certain point when I was natural and if enough time passes from gear use I seem to slump towards that...I know many ppl who claim the same. when have u been 6 months off gear last? Did u manage to keep ur gains? I am hoping I can tweak my diet and training to be able to keep gains better.. but then again I know about them pretty much, u know I got pretty big naturally, alot bigger than most ppl in here. I really hope Im wrong about this but Im afraid im not.. If I would do 3 10 week cycles a year I could keep gaining ćause that way I wouldnt drop alot in the off time. also Im by no mean s and expert on cycling, I havent done it for that long, but if I cant manage to keep gains what is the point to continue.. Im reallly hoping I can manage to work around this... I mean very many ppl believe in the genetic potential, its not so far fetched.. maybe u are genetically more gifted than me but Id like to see u put on 20 lbs still and keep those gains with that BF without gear for a year...

[Hellmaskbanned]

I don't see why you'd want to drop the training intensity at any point during the year.. the only thing that should change is the routine itself and the training "frequency". Ex. Instead of training E3D while off cycle, switch to EOD.
.

I'm with you on that.
I would never lighten up the intensity unless I had a nagging injury etc. Even then I would just work around with different exercises.
If Marcus meant training heavy each workout , then yes you would have to lighten up. Break from the heavy training to more reps, but lose some intensity no.

[guest589745]

Yea keep the intensity but just utilize more/less rest days depending on the amount of intensity.

[IBdmfkr]

well what I mean that I was at a certain point when I was natural and if enough time passes from gear use I seem to slump towards that...I know many ppl who claim the same. when have u been 6 months off gear last? Did u manage to keep ur gains? I am hoping I can tweak my diet and training to be able to keep gains better.. but then again I know about them pretty much, u know I got pretty big naturally, alot bigger than most ppl in here. I really hope Im wrong about this but Im afraid im not.. If I would do 3 10 week cycles a year I could keep gaining ćause that way I wouldnt drop alot in the off time. also Im by no mean s and expert on cycling, I havent done it for that long, but if I cant manage to keep gains what is the point to continue.. Im reallly hoping I can manage to work around this... I mean very many ppl believe in the genetic potential, its not so far fetched.. maybe u are genetically more gifted than me but Id like to see u put on 20 lbs still and keep those gains with that BF without gear for a year...

good points SH..

I wish I had an answer.. there are so many things that come into play here that could determine whether one person would keep their musclemass while another wouldn't..

I'd post up your current diet and stats in a separate thread. That way we can start narrowing down what it might be that keeps you from retaining gains. I stayed clean for close to 4months and kept everything, even gained a few lbs.. IMO the most important factors besides proper diet and training intensity would be recovering your natural levels ASAP, otherwise you would deff watch your gains dwindle away.

[vitor]

good points SH..

I wish I had an answer.. there are so many things that come into play here that could determine whether one person would keep their musclemass while another wouldn't..

I'd post up your current diet and stats in a separate thread. That way we can start narrowing down what it might be that keeps you from retaining gains. I stayed clean for close to 4months and kept everything, even gained a few lbs.. IMO the most important factors besides proper diet and training intensity would be recovering your natural levels ASAP, otherwise you would deff watch your gains dwindle away.

You where steroid free for 4 months? But you did use GH in this time-period? If you did, that would defently be an factor...

Did you keep all your LBM stenght as well?

[guest589745]

I think I**mfkr stays on GH, he's one of those rich mfers.

[IBdmfkr]

One of the times I was clean for 4months was at the end of 05, I was not taking HGH at that time.. I started it Jan. 06 and have run it since.

It is possible to keep your gains, but as SH says you cannot be completely over your natural potential.. I will agree with him there, obviously a Pro-level athlete cannot hold their LBM without the use of anabolics.

Someone like us should not have a problem with holding gains, you just have to be more meticulous about your diet/training/rest.

Skull if you got kits for what I do you'd stay on GH as well

[guest589745]

Skull if you got kits for what I do you'd stay on GH as well

I think I can get the same ones..........?? Yea one day.

[marcus300]

This thread is getting really interesting, seeing the different views and how other people go about maintaining gains,

Ten times was an expression of speech, more affective would of been better
i get carried away sometimes as i write,

Holding onto your gains is an art form, food/training and rest are vital like I B D states, It varies plenty between individuals to how many months each can stay clean for while maintaining the gains, alot comes into play!! GH and all the other compounds are a must,

Dedication and motivation are also main factors, many lose these two important keys when they come off cycle, you have to re-train yourself in thinking this is the time to prime and create that anabolic environment and keep dedicated,

What a good example i**mfk of what priming can do, just think how much more affective it could of been if you didn't lose as much muscle tissue which comes with contest prep, with priming you can adjust so you hold onto more tissue not like contest prepping, excellent example on how affective priming can be,

[stupidhippo]

I agree.. very interesting topic... its interesting to hear from seasoned ppl how they go about this... u can learn valuable tips but unfortunately the same exact formula doesnt work for all, wish it would - it would make things a whole lot easier for everyone

to I**: u were considerably smaller back in 2005 so I wouldnt be surprised if u wouldnt be so lucky with keeping gains now... without GH, I wish I could afford that... in 2 years I will... ofcourse I can be wrong but IMO ur growth (judging from ur avatars) has been pretty amazing in a year.

About my point a lil more. I think I could optimize my training more and thus be able to keep more gains if I was only doing BB. I have other goals in other sports and that dictates a big part of my training, thus hindering BB in their own way.

[IBdmfkr]

SH, yes focusing on more than one sport can deff hinder gains especially while off anabolics.. There are so many factors that could be discussed.

Also as you stated I am holding much more LBM now than in '05 so we'll see how well I can hold onto it.

[marcus300]

I agree.. very interesting topic... its interesting to hear from seasoned ppl how they go about this... u can learn valuable tips but unfortunately the same exact formula doesnt work for all, wish it would - it would make things a whole lot easier for everyone

to I**: u were considerably smaller back in 2005 so I wouldnt be surprised if u wouldnt be so lucky with keeping gains now... without GH, I wish I could afford that... in 2 years I will... ofcourse I can be wrong but IMO ur growth (judging from ur avatars) has been pretty amazing in a year.

About my point a lil more. I think I could optimize my training more and thus be able to keep more gains if I was only doing BB. I have other goals in other sports and that dictates a big part of my training, thus hindering BB in their own way.

I would also say that concentrating on other sports as well as bodybuilding will defo slow gains, i don't have any experience in that field but it would be impossible for me to do any other sport/activity while BB because of the intensely way i train and dedication/motivation i give, i would say your dividing your energy and motivation up to many ways, id concentrate on just the one and excel the best you can in that sport.

[bor]

Start dong morning cardio, ED mx 30 mim, no clen , no ef, just 30 min, some caffein, myb hal of the aspitin and liquid l ceanitine...

Remeber you want hard storng mucsle, not fat, so dn0t woorry they're come,give i it time....the results eill come trust me




SNd if you havent already, be sure ti
check out tue diet forum!

Well that'll teach me not to post after taking a sleeping pill

sorry guys