TAMOX cycle

**lifta_00** · 12-29-2006, 01:15 AM

hey I know tamox can increase your test by 150% when you come off a steroid cycle but can it increase your natural test that much if you have not just finished a cycle meaning your test level was just normal and you wanted to increase it by 150%?

**nephilim666** · 12-29-2006, 10:04 AM

i have heard taht, i have also heard arimidex does the same thing, i would like to know how that works .

**dhriscerr** · 12-29-2006, 10:16 AM

Thats a good question?

**Dog-Slime** · 12-29-2006, 01:30 PM

http://forums.steroid.com/questions-comments-rui-products/

**Swifto** · 12-29-2006, 01:34 PM

Use an AI like Letro, Arimidex or Aromasin instead.

**lifta_00** · 12-29-2006, 01:47 PM

so do you think using one of those will increase it better than using trib?

**lifterjaydawg** · 12-29-2006, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Use an AI like Letro, Arimidex or Aromasin instead.

I like letro it works great.

**lifta_00** · 12-29-2006, 04:30 PM

does letro actually increase your natural test?

**Swifto** · 12-29-2006, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by lifta_00

does letro actually increase your natural test?

Yes. By lowering estrogen. Letro is probably the most powerful at this, as it reduces estrogen so much (98%).

MyoGenX also increases T by a fair margin. Could look into that.

**MAXIMA5** · 12-29-2006, 05:00 PM

so...what if you took Tongkat, Trib, and a small letro dose off cycle?

**Swifto** · 12-29-2006, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by MAXIMA5

so...what if you took Tongkat, Trib, and a small letro dose off cycle?

Tongkat and Tribuals dont do much, if anything at all.

Letro and other AI's can be used when "off". Vitor does it, and successfully with Letro. I'll be doing this after my next cycle.

**cfiler** · 12-29-2006, 05:18 PM

Like said above, and AI would work better than a SERM.

**Swifto** · 12-29-2006, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by cfiler

Like said above, and AI would work better than a SERM.

Lowering estrogen and changing the bodies Testosterone :Estrogen ratio is the best way of doing it IMHO, using a powerful AI. Letro being the best at this. A SERM would work, but all your doing is blocking estrogen, thats it.

If your not fighting gyno or very prone to estrogenic sides, I dont see a need for Nolva at all. Why block estrogenic effects and a possible estrogen rebound, when you can reduce the hormone that is the cause in the first place?

**HORSE~** · 12-29-2006, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Tongkat and Tribuals dont do much, if anything at all.

Letro and other AI's can be used when "off". Vitor does it, and successfully with Letro. I'll be doing this after my next cycle.

I have ran letro off cycle and as a stand alone for pct (It was an experemint) it work realy well but it compeletly killed my sex drive and made my joints sore as hell.......

I'll be interested in how it affects you keep us updated........

**Swifto** · 12-29-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by HORSE

I have ran letro off cycle and as a stand alone for pct (It was an experemint) it work realy well but it compeletly killed my sex drive and made my joints sore as hell.......

I'll be interested in how it affects you keep us updated........

You may have lowered your estrogen too low. The key here, as in most cases, is BW. It needs to be done every 4 weeks IMHO when using an AI, like Letro, off cycle. Exactly due to this problem.

Running an AI too long can also lead to HPTA suppression or possibly shutdown. BW needs to be done regulalry and the AI needs to be changed every few months IMHO too.

Vitor would be a good addittion to this thread. Vitor and I have spoken about this many times.

**lifta_00** · 12-29-2006, 06:33 PM

thanks for the responces bros. i think i might run a letro cycle and see how i gain off it. this may be a dumb question but if done correctly BW etc is this less harmful to the body than AAS?. i know the gains will not be the same.

**lifta_00** · 12-30-2006, 09:30 PM

bump

**Mista Massive** · 12-30-2006, 10:05 PM

intersesting thread.

i read on another thread, can't remember which one, about someone who uses arimidex all the time but has never cycled. he believes it works great and he grows like a weed. he says he doesn't feel like he's lying when he says he is all natural.

let us know how u go.

**MAXIMA5** · 12-31-2006, 09:30 AM

Testosterone is a natural hormone, therefore, I am 100% natural.......

Although I dont think Tren , Tbol, Anavar , Equipose, winstrol , and Dbols are natural. hmmmm

**DIESELPWR** · 12-31-2006, 10:51 AM

well arent they all derivatives (sp) of testosterone so in a sence maybe natural lol

**lifta_00** · 12-31-2006, 09:47 PM

ive been looking into myogenX and am wondering if this would increase test as much as running a letro cycle? and what would be safer? can running just a letro cycle do any long term damage?

**lifta_00** · 12-31-2006, 10:42 PM

anyone?

**nephilim666** · 01-01-2007, 10:22 AM

i would suggest just sticking with the letro or the arimidex and see how that works, btw wtf is BW?

**frank12391** · 01-01-2007, 06:23 PM

sinthetic testosterone is not natural

***perfectbeast2001*** · 01-01-2007, 06:26 PM

letro killed my libido too and made me feel tired and shitty.
Do these strong AIs have a negative affect on ones blood lipids long term?

**steve_rx7** · 01-01-2007, 07:15 PM

yall have really helprd me out alot.. thanks a million for all the great info...

**steve_rx7** · 01-01-2007, 07:17 PM

how many squirts of letro

**MAXIMA5** · 01-02-2007, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by steve_rx7

how many squirts of letro

generally 1 ml = 2.5mg

10 squirts = 1 ml

1 squirt = .25mg

This is true for the board sponsored letro

**Mista Massive** · 01-02-2007, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

letro killed my libido too and made me feel tired and shitty.
Do these strong AIs have a negative affect on ones blood lipids long term?

hmm... good question. that is something to consider also when using long term. nolvadex can have a positive impact on lipids but will probably not yeild as much.

**Mista Massive** · 01-02-2007, 07:33 AM

i got this off steroid .com

Many anabolic steroids aromatize (convert to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme), and this is responsible for many of the unwanted side effects found with anabolic steroid use (acne, gynocomastia, water-retention, etc...). In one study, both .5mg and 1mg doses of Arimidex were shown to decrease estrogen by roughly 50%. The 1mg/day dose also increased testosterone levels by 58% (1). In that same study, in both groups, LH and FSH also went up slightly.

I´d like to point out that the elevation in Testosterone provided by Arimidex is so large that it can be used as a "form" of testosterone replacement therapy for hypogonadal men (2). Clearly, this suggests its use in a post-cycle-therapy (as well as its previously discussed use within a cycle) to regain natural testosterone levels and full functioning of the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Testicular-Pituitary-Axis).

**Mista Massive** · 01-02-2007, 07:35 AM

But can you use it for the entire duration of a cycle? Is it dangerous? Well, certainly reducing estrogen levels in your body is good from a body building point of view, as it reduces water-retention and the potential for gynocomastia (if there´s no estrogen in your body, you can´t get gyno, regardless of how much progesterone is floating around)(5). Luckily this stuff is very mild on blood lipids (cholesterol) and doesn´t affect them adversely (2), in the studies I´ve seen.

well that answers beast's question.

sounds pretty good to me.

i wonder if we alls hould be using something like this when OFF a cycle.

**Mista Massive** · 01-02-2007, 07:37 AM

woops, missed this bit

As previously mentioned, those lowered estrogen levels could possibly (eventually) adversely affect your cholesterol and possibly even your immune function. I am, however, very comfortable recommending Arimidex for relatively long-term use. This should be the ancillary compound of choice for those on long and heavy cycles, especially since it also doesn´t inhibit igf like some other ancillary compounds (insulin -like-growth-factor is an important component of anabolism

**Mista Massive** · 01-02-2007, 07:40 AM

i have read the tamoxifen profiles as well. but nothing is mentioned about use during OFF cycles.

**vitor** · 01-02-2007, 08:30 AM

I started using letro between cycles around 5 months ago(1.25 mg ed), and those results have been incredible to say the least.

My IGF has almost doubled, total Estrogen levels decreased 65-70%, my Testosterone went from roughly 600-1000ng/dl, and SHBG levels has decrease alot which means more free testosterone levels will be bind to androgen recepters.

This has helped me with keeping all the gains/strenght while being natty(I have actually gained some), and keeping BF down is easier.(letro penetrates fat-cells effectively).

The only side is that libido is starting to get effected a little bit, I have little desire for sex now. I will switch to Aromasin pretty soon b/c of this. My cholesterol is up slightly but still well inside normal ranges. No other sides to mention after about 5 months with 1+mg ed of letro.

**KeepingItBalanced** · 01-02-2007, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by vitor

I started using letro between cycles around 5 months ago(1.25 mg ed), and those results have been incredible to say the least.

My IGF has almost doubled, total Estrogen levels decreased 65-70%, my Testosterone went from roughly 600-1000ng/dl, and SHBG levels has decrease alot which means more free testosterone levels will be bind to androgen recepters.

This has helped me with keeping all the gains/strenght while being natty(I have actually gained some), and keeping BF down is easier.(letro penetrates fat-cells effectively).

The only side is that libido is starting to get effected a little bit, I have little desire for sex now. I will switch to Aromasin pretty soon b/c of this. My cholesterol is up slightly but still well inside normal ranges. No other sides to mention after about 5 months with 1+mg ed of letro.

I am interested in running this with some clen between my next cycles. Unsure of the Letro dose I'll run. (running clen to shed some fat gained in this bulk). When you say little desire for sex, you just don't want it, but if you do, can you still get it up and keep it up no problems? That's my major concern.

**steve_rx7** · 01-02-2007, 12:17 PM

can someone tell me with the letro, i think a dose is 9 to 10 squirts, but how often? everday or ever thierd day?

***perfectbeast2001*** · 01-02-2007, 12:49 PM

good info mista. I read an article a while ago (by llewellyn I think) in MD discussing the use of AIs or SERMS in the long term. As you have mentioned SERMS were shown to have a positive affect on lipids but less dramatic increases in test levels. AIs showed greater test increase but after a while also showed negative affects on lipids, this the writer believed was a reult of very low estrogen levels. Very low estrogen levels have also been linked to lethargy and tiredness. Definately food for thought...
Personally I am very interested in the idea of running an AI between cycles.