Sachets....

[evil pepsi]

had to scroll up and see that you indeed did mention changing pins.

[evil pepsi]

1. wash your hands and the sachet with antibacterial and dry with paper towel. 2. swab the sachet
3. Use a 19g pin and 5ml or 10ml syringe to draw the contents. (I use 10ml cause you will get approx 5.5ml from each one).
6. Store it in the syringe. Put a clean pin on the syringe. When injecting, use a new syringe and pin to draw from the storage syringe.

You can store it in a clean sterile vile. I believe less transfers means less chance of contamination.

now, compare the steps. you already have it in a syringe. you mention transferring it to a new syringe. thats no easy task. its much easier to take the pin off, take the vial that has a sterile pin already inserted, and inject straight into the vial. your method requires extra steps, and a waste of pins/syringes.
this whole issue is beyond debate now...

[BGIZZLE8629]

seems as if transfering from sachet - syringe - vial would be much easier. Is it absolutely necessary to use a filter though?

[vermin]

Is it absolutely necessary to use a filter though?

Yep.

[frank12391]

Are you using the same pins? Don't you change the pin after drawing from a vial? or do you use the same one to inject. Pins are about 2c each. You remove the pin which you used to draw from the sachet and replace it just as you would after drawing from a vile. As far as drawing from a syringe, you just insert a clean pin and syringe as you would for a vile. I don't use anymore than you do. On a vile you would swab the top twice, I just replace the pin. New unit. In the rubber top on a vile, a stioma can be penetrated twice. You can't swab in there nor does any BB get in. When drawing from a syringe, you swab the tip of the syringe and replace pin then your right for storage. So on both methods you are using two pins and swabing a surface, where is the extra step. The difference is that you have transfered the gear from 3 different invorements, Sachet, syringe, vial then back in a syringe.4. Other method: sachet, syringe, syringe 3. Do the math If you want to filter, you can filter directly to another syringe and place clean pin for storage. That would make 4 diff envirements but my gear is filtered. The other good way to do it is to get a 60ml syringe, draw all the gear at once from all sachets, place filter on the end and put it straight into a vial. I just draw on sachet at a time. I get about 3 shots from one. Next sachet, new syringe when I need it. I prefere to store the gear in the sachet until I need it.

[veryveryquiet]

Why is your vial more sterile than my syringe except that you then have to transfer it into a vial and then back to a syringe to inject? I ask you, why is puting it into a vial a more sterile inviroment? It's not and if your talking about where you store them, thats got nothing to do with the argument nor does it make a diference. Again, where are you going with this?

One thing I think is being left out is that once removed from the sachets the oil is being filtered with a new pin into the sterile vile by evil (I Assume). How much more sterile could it get? Besides adding more BA?

Come on guys can we drop this s**t you both score a point! LOL

[frank12391]

yep I totally agree, from sachet to sterile pin to filter to (sterile syringe) or vial = aseptic. 1 point a peice

[frank12391]

What, don't you change pins after drawing from a sachet before puting in a vial. What point are you trying to make. Your going in circles again and you know what I don't give a flying ^ * @ K about this issue anymore because your manifesting B U L # S + & T that has no relevence to the argument just to have the last say. Grow up boy. I'm done with this issue and you. I will not conciede when I know I am correct escpecially when my mentors agree with me. Here in Australia, we have the best health care system in the world (FACT) and it's free!! No cutting corners to save the company money. The system is owned by the tax payer. We don't need insurance or have issues with insurance companys refusing to pay. We are thorough and methodical and it's a given right here to recieve equal care whether you are the Prime Minister, Prince or pawper. I have treated and nursed people that come from walks of life that you probably only see on T.V I challenge you to find a country on this earth that can match that. Other health care professionals from other countrys are not recognised with the same compitence. On the other hand, my Qulifications are reconised the world over because I am Australian. R.Ns here even prescribe meds. It's the Nursing staffs responsibility of the day to day running of hospitals. We have the responsibility of monitoring infection controll. The infection control commitees are run by the RNs which I am a member of. I will no longer reply to your posts because it's a waste of time with you. Fair dinkum! Go away

[frank12391]

Wait for the insult

[frank12391]

I was reluctant to say but you pushed me so here goes. I am connected to a well known, whealthy Motorcycle Gang. I have the responsibility of jabing their glutes with juice and their basic health. Thats right when you see them in the news papers, you know that I juiced them up. I talk with a double murderer on a daily basis. I am extreemly methodical about what I do. I can't afford not be. If I made a mistake, well it's curtains for me. Since I'v been on this forum I have learned alot and I am still learning and passing it on to my cycle mates. I posted a thread sometime ago about thier kids juicing up.

Young biker gang protege's

I'm done with this thread.

Curtains! shut the gate!

[evil pepsi]

did dude just have a meltdown? i cant speak for everyone, but i really question someone calling themselves an rn, but cant even spell basic medical terminology, and giving out advice on another thread that can lead to infection.
thats just vile and dastardly...

[frank12391]

Yeh keep going poindexter. Is that all you got on me, typos? You know I'v experinced a little life, I'v been around the block a few times. It's easy to pic a person with an absessive personality. Not a good idea to be fooling around with gear mate. You gotta learn to let go. There is a limit you know.

Have your last say cause I won't be reading it cause I don't give a S H I T!! I'v used up most of my free time. You can continue to fry your brain infront of a flashing screen till your eyes turn square.

[kynetguy]

YOu all make sachets way too difficult.

#1) if you are not Filtering yoru sachets before injecting, you are crazy. When you puncture the sachet there is a GREAT possibility of getting a small sliver of the sachet inside the needle as it cuts through. Which will definately cause an abcess.

#2) If you are TRULY worried about sterility, withdrawl all your sachets, filter into sterile vials with a .2 whatman. Let sit for 7 days, then use. They will contain a minimum of 1% BA. According to the USP, a 1% solution of BA will kill all microorganisms such as e.coli, staph aur, and others, in 7 days. The filter will remove spores, particulate matter and other crap you dont want in your body.

You are all eat up on your sterile technique, saying transffering is bad and this and that. You all have OBVIOUSLY NOT made gear or seen UGL's in action. If so, you would not shoot sachets or any gear until you followed #2.

[evil pepsi]

YOu all make sachets way too difficult.

#1) if you are not Filtering yoru sachets before injecting, you are crazy. When you puncture the sachet there is a GREAT possibility of getting a small sliver of the sachet inside the needle as it cuts through. Which will definately cause an abcess.

#2) If you are TRULY worried about sterility, withdrawl all your sachets, filter into sterile vials with a .2 whatman. Let sit for 7 days, then use. They will contain a minimum of 1% BA. According to the USP, a 1% solution of BA will kill all microorganisms such as e.coli, staph aur, and others, in 7 days. The filter will remove spores, particulate matter and other crap you dont want in your body.

You are all eat up on your sterile technique, saying transffering is bad and this and that. You all have OBVIOUSLY NOT made gear or seen UGL's in action. If so, you would not shoot sachets or any gear until you followed #2.

#2 is a no-brainer. what this whole thing is about centers around someone's bad advice to people. dude is ate up, and somewhat obsessed with trying to prove himself right...

[frank12391]

Interesting point about letting it sit for 7 days. I'll take that advice. In your opinion, do you think you should filter gear coming out of single use amples. because Is there a possibility of tiny fragments of glass getting in when you snap the top off?

[frank12391]

third, as an rn, you should know about aseptic procedures, as well as microbiology. ByEvil Pepsi

Who are you to judge me or anyone on this forum? R.N is a qualification, you don't get one by reading text books and forums. You actually have to do some work and have your clinical skills tested and scrutinised which I can tell you I have done in 9 years in this job. As well as that, here in Australia we have an accreditation system in our hospitals performed every 2 years for a period of 4 weeks by one body in each 7 states for all hospitals to maintain 1 standard of health care not just a board cutting corners. "The N.S.W Dpt of Health and Aged Care and Veterans Affairs" In 9 years as a Licenced Nurse Practitioner, now with authority to prescribe certain medications( Australia being the only Country to have nurses with that level of training) with a Bacholor Of Nursing, I have never failed during accreditation, I have never had a breach of "Duty Of Care" My job has taken me around the world, working for several charitys including "Medicines Sans Frontiers". I have had to perform proceedures with very limitted supplys in war torn african countrys. I have seen 9 month old leg ulcers and pressure sores. Not to mention that I'v had to protect myslf. I do Know a thing or two about infection control. As a member of The Infection Control Commitee in my hospital, I am very respected. I'd just hop on a plane and meet you in person to see what you are and who you really are. I would. I love my short breaks! DON"T QUESTION MY INTEGRETY If you really wanna talk PM me and I'll make arrangements Or Go Away THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER.

[evil pepsi]

right dude, if you say so. im not going to flame you, but i seriously doubt you. maybe its just that i am a vile person that posts about vials. its funny how you keep saying you are done, yet, even without me posting, you continue on.
you also need to stop posting medical advice that you are clearly not qualified to give.
either post something factual, and relevant, or move on...

[evil pepsi]

now, to get this thread back on track, go with what works best for you. as i said earlier, sachets can be safe if you handle them properly. for the money, its worth the extra steps needed to ensure proper storage/handling.
the inconvenience you may experience is nothing compared to being treated for cellulitis, so be careful no matter which method you choose...

[kynetguy]

Interesting point about letting it sit for 7 days. I'll take that advice. In your opinion, do you think you should filter gear coming out of single use amples. because Is there a possibility of tiny fragments of glass getting in when you snap the top off?

7 days comes directly from USP's findings on BA and micro organisms. To be human grade, an injectable has to contain at least 1% Benzyl Alcohol, which is ultimately what mades the injectable sterile.

Not sure on that one. I have opened and used amps and never had a problem, but not with gear. A properly scored and opened amp produces a very clean break and should not throw any glass fragments into your solution. But some people just have problems in general with them.

The possibility of glass is there, true enough. But in a clinical setting I have never seen them filtered. I think I would be inclined to filter them personally. I would probablly filter with a 1 micron filter if my only concern was glass. It would be very easy to filter, unlike a .22 when you are filtering for sterility. So you could transfer all your amps to a vial and for about 8 bucks or so you could have pretty cheap insurance.

[frank12391]

Yeh, I haven't ever seen them filtered iether but I suppose it can't hurt. You would however get a strange look from your colleagues at work cause most people would never have considered it. I have never actually filtered sachets. I did view lab results on those products but with different batches from an UGL, I had taken a calculated risk. We haven't had any problems in our circle although I do thinks it's now worth considering. What are the real chances in your opinion about the contamination of tiny foil fragments from sachets?

[kynetguy]

Yeh, I haven't ever seen them filtered iether but I suppose it can't hurt. You would however get a strange look from your colleagues at work cause most people would never have considered it. I have never actually filtered sachets. I did view lab results on those products but with different batches from an UGL, I had taken a calculated risk. We haven't had any problems in our circle although I do thinks it's now worth considering. What are the real chances in your opinion about the contamination of tiny foil fragments from sachets?

If you insert the pin bevel up, I would say very slim. I have never used satchets though, so I cannot give you personal expirience, just things I have read.

[frank12391]

Yeh, I tend to agree

[HeLLBoy3045]

thanx for the help guys...i dont think im ganna get sachets anymore lol

[frank12391]

bump

[saturn08]

I am using the sachets right now. Test cypionate and deca . I pulled the juice out with a 20ml syringe w/18g pin. Filtered it through a .2 whateman. No problems so far, except the fact that I thing the rubber stopper is bad and had a couple peices of rubber in my gear, so I filtered again. Done two shots so far, no problems.

[frank12391]

You can get new stoppers from AR-R .com. How many times would you say that you punctured the stopper? curious? Was the stopper new or reused when you transfered the gear from the sachets?

[hawthorne1010]

thanx for the help guys...i dont think im ganna get sachets anymore lol

Heh! I know what you mean. Damn am I confused now.

[saturn08]

it was a new vial with stopper. Only put a 23g pin in for air then puched the 18g in to filter into vial after pulling out of sachets.

[frank12391]

Damn, thats just unlucky or a dud stopper

[frank12391]

YOu all make sachets way too difficult.

#1) if you are not Filtering yoru sachets before injecting, you are crazy. When you puncture the sachet there is a GREAT possibility of getting a small sliver of the sachet inside the needle as it cuts through. Which will definately cause an abcess.

#2) If you are TRULY worried about sterility, withdrawl all your sachets, filter into sterile vials with a .2 whatman. Let sit for 7 days, then use. They will contain a minimum of 1% BA. According to the USP, a 1% solution of BA will kill all microorganisms such as e.coli, staph aur, and others, in 7 days. The filter will remove spores, particulate matter and other crap you dont want in your body.

You are all eat up on your sterile technique, saying transffering is bad and this and that. You all have OBVIOUSLY NOT made gear or seen UGL's in action. If so, you would not shoot sachets or any gear until you followed #2.

I'v run 2 cycles and I'v lost count on my friends. We have never filtered them and never had an abscess. By the sounds of it, you got more chances of getting rubber in your gear than foil.

The best thing to do is to store the sachets until you need to shoot it. Extract and store only 5 ml at a time in a 5ml or 10ml syringe. Let sachet stand up for 1/2 hour to settle oil to bottom. Wash & Swab the sachet like you would swab a rubber stopper. Swab a razor blade and slit the top off the sachet. draw with an 18g into a syringe and put new pin & cap. Done. Put it away for 7 days as the BA in the gear will kill anything if you leave it sit for that amount of time in your new sterile environment. You don't need to filter.

If you want to filter. Get the required syringe for injecting and filter into it as much as you require. Replace pin. Put the rest away. Put the pin you require on your new syringe and inject. When you run out, open a new sachet. Why open them all up at once and expose them when you don't need them?

If you had 4 sachets. You puncture or cut 4 sachets and then mixed the gear together. All the gear would be cut open or punctured 4 times. Then the question is, do you use 4 pins or the same one? Then even if you filter into a vile with one filter, it then goes back into another syringe before you inject. It's been transferred into 3 different vessels, 4 pins or the sam pin on 4 different sachets and unless you use a micron filter, you are only filtering particles not microbes and then there are people reusing vials with worn out stoppers. For a noobs: Look at all the equipment required to transfer into vials.
Vials, micron filter, syringes and pins. Or if you store in a sterile syringe you need only your syringes and pins and its only passed into 2 vessels. Why do you think human grade gear is stored in single use ampoules? Most drugs these days that are stored in 10ml vials require the whole 10 mls to be injected IV so the vial is only penetrated once. The rest of single dose drugs are stored in glass or plastic ampoules or now redijects ( Pre loaded syringes vacuum wrapped in plastic) are becoming more common place in medical settings. Your pins and syringes are sterile and safe to store and the BA will kill anything you mat have picked up from the outside of the sachet.

Anthony Roberts has endorsed them. The contents are clean and sterile and free from particles. The only people who got abscesses didn't clean and swab the packs before they punctured them. Then again how can you blame the sachets anyway, people are getting abscesses from human grade gear.

[saturn08]

yep, two shots no problems yet, although it hurts like a bitch in heat and swells up at the area, does all test hurt this bad? Damn.

[frank12391]

Virgin muscles do with test, prop look out!