Designing a short cycle- PB style

**Nate Dawg** · 03-01-2007, 10:59 PM

I have been reading alot lately the past month or so on Paul Borresen's cycle theories, as well as Marcus300 and several other members suggestions, and I have decided to give one of his cycles a try. Currently I am priming with carb cycling, and the two weeks before the cycle I am going to go very low carb, and then slam the food once the cycle starts. Wei***ng around 210-215, max lifts are 415 bench, 535 squat and 535 deadlift. Here is my past cycle experience to help give you all an idea on what doses I should run this cycle:

1st cycle: test prop 125mg eod/tren ace 100 mg eod- 5 weeks

2nd cycle: 13 weeks
test enanthate - ranged from 500-1000mg/week
tren ace- 450mg/week- 7 weeks
dbol - 50mg/day- 6 weeks

3rd cycle: (things start getting way too drawn out!) 28 weeks
test enanthate- ranged from 500-1500mg/week
tren enanthate- 700mg/week 13 weeks
NPP- 400mg/week 6 weeks
anadrol - 100mg/day- 6 weeks
dbol- 25-75mg/day- way too long...probably 18 weeks total
anavar - 50mg/day 4 weeks
All products were interchanged throughout cycle, test was base of cycle. Got blood tests after the cycle and everything test fine, liver enzymes barely elevated.

4th cycle: another long one...32 weeks, contained about everything under the sun..
test enanthate- 600-1500mg/week
tren ace- 525-800mg/week
winstrol - 50-100mg/day
dbol- 20-80mg/day
masteron - 400mg/week
anadrol- 75-125mg/day
tbol-80mg/day
anavar-80-100mg/day

So there is my AAS usage history, a little excessive..so after reading on these short cycle theories and talking to lots of people and observing my own experiences with gear, short cycles seem like the best way to go. I notice at the 6-8 week mark my gains pretty much stall, so thats what makes so musch sense about the shorties. Also I am tired of the long cycles because of the long off time required afterwards, as well as the long periods of smashed cholesterol levels cant be good either. I've been searching as much as I can and reading all over the boards trying to gather as much info as possible, I also have ALR's Building the Perfect Beast.

As far as the gear choices for this cycle, I homebrew everything and I have pretty much everything at my disposal. I am wanting this cycle to be 6 weeks long, going to be doing DC training and hit a hard 6 week blast coinciding with the cycle. Here is what I kind of thought up, I am unsure of the doses and when exactly some of the compounds should be used.

Day 1-13: Test blend (125mg test e/125mg test cyp/50mg test prop per ml)- 600mg eod?
Day 1-13: Tren ace 100mg/day
Day 1-21: Anadrol 100mg/day
Day 14-30: Test prop 200mg/day-Tren ace 100mg/day-Masteron 60mg/day-Boldenone base transdermal
Day 31-42: Test prop 200mg/day-masteron 60mg/day-bold base-winstrol 75mg/day

How does that look? Are there any compounds I should take out? I'm not real nuts about doing any deca so thats why I have the transdermal boldenone in there, and EQ has such a long half life it would be hard to get it to work in a short cycle unless a multi gram front load was used. The masteron is for hardening and SHBG purposes. Do I need to change the length of times that any one of the compounds are used?

From what I have read it seems that a hard high dose cycle such as this is ran, then followed by time off, I was thinking a good 3-4 week pct, then a more normal dosed cycle for another 6 weeks or so to maintain gains and add a bit more.

One thing I was curious about was should I just not even worry about the long estered tests and go with test prop straight from the beginning? Although I notice alot of these blast cycles are frontloaded with a long ester so there must be a reason for that.

If anyone could give me any input on how to better set this up and any of your own personal experiences I would greatly appreciate it!

**hugovsilva** · 03-02-2007, 04:51 AM

Why the long esters at the beginning? Makes no sense.

**Nate Dawg** · 03-02-2007, 12:09 PM

I'm not for sure, thats just how alot of these high dose short cycles I have seen are set up.

**Nate Dawg** · 03-02-2007, 02:12 PM

Marcus, Xtralarg?? I have seen that doses dont like to be discussed in the open regarding these short cycles, so I would take this to PM's if that would be better, but I dont have PM's, do I need a higher post count or what?

**Bigmax** · 03-02-2007, 02:27 PM

yes you do bro....I can tell you one thing bro...all due respect...you have alot of reading up to do on short cycles bro...

**Nate Dawg** · 03-02-2007, 02:37 PM

Thanks Bigmax, I've been scouring the boards for the past month trying to figure out how to put this together, where else should I look? Thats why I posted this thread was to get insight from those who have done it.

**Bigmax** · 03-02-2007, 02:45 PM

Ther are 2 really good threads on short cyclesbro...one from Marcus and there is another one ...I believe it was results on warriors results but not sure...have you read them??

**Nate Dawg** · 03-02-2007, 02:56 PM

Yes sir I have.

Marucs's thread:
Short heavy cyles explained- PB theory

Warriors:
Warrior's short cycle feedback

I've read them both over and over, and there is a ton of good info in there, I just dont know how to set up the compounds for a 6 week cycle, such as when to phase certain ones out and others in.

I appreciate the help Bigmax.

**Nate Dawg** · 03-03-2007, 01:21 AM

Bump...

**marcus300** · 03-03-2007, 04:02 AM

Get your post count up and pm me. I wont discuss dosages within a short burst cycle on the open forum. everything else surrounding short cycling isn't a problem. dosages keep to pm.

Tren will be hard to recover from with a short cycle and sometimes defeats the object of running such cycles but gains are really good depends if you want to run the risk of slower recovery?

**Warrior** · 03-03-2007, 04:11 AM

Stick to testosterone only so you can develop a standard for future use. In my opinion, you are making this too complicated with too many deriatives... especially for a first run.

Also, as Marcus wrote, progestin's raise total hormone levels and impact the HPTA harder - this could lead to short and heavy suppression.

Do test-only initially, so you can better determine the effectiveness of the protocol - then take it from there...

**marcus300** · 03-03-2007, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Stick to testosterone only so you can develop a standard for future use. In my opinion, you are making this too complicated with too many deriatives... especially for a first run.

Also, as Marcus wrote, progestin's raise total hormone levels and impact the HPTA harder - this could lead to short and heavy suppression.

Do test-only initially, so you can better determine the effectiveness of the protocol - then take it from there...

wise words

**Nate Dawg** · 03-05-2007, 12:40 AM

Thanks for the replies Marcus and Warrior, the much simpler test cycle sounds like a good idea.

I've seen with most of the cycles that GH is ran with them periodically throughout in a wide range of doses, but usually I've seen frequencies throughout the cycle such as 3 days on 3 days off, 1 week on 1 week off, or even 10 days on 14 days off, with the doses ranging from 6IU up to some even using 16IU/day. I was wondering how vital the gh was to adding to the gains and helping maintain them post cycle. I have never used GH, ran a few IGF cycles and recently tried pegMGF. Would the addition of GH to the cycle have a marked increase to the gains versus a cycle without it? I know it would help some, but does its gains warrant its price?

**superstar21** · 03-05-2007, 05:48 AM

I like drol, high dosages the first 10days. My last was

days 1 - 20 : test-e 400mg ed
days 1 - 20 : DBOL 100mg ed
days 21-30 : Winny 150mg ed
days 21-30 : Test-prop 200mg ed

forget the gains but they were nice, this was my second burst though followed up with igf-1 for the next 4 and cruised on 50mg prop/day. Wouldnt repeat it though, at the point where the sides wouldnt be worth it for me. Getting sick of pinning allaround

**Warrior** · 03-05-2007, 07:26 AM

superstar21 - did you get any blood work done after/during that run? Any bad side effects or anything starting to develop at the end?

**superstar21** · 03-05-2007, 07:40 AM

just pain, gettin hard to train around the proppain/oil.. recovery was easy, im not a fan of people throwing in nandrolones in these kinda cycles. Just gettin greedy imo, idea is to keep supression to a minimum well if you wanna make recovery easier. Plus test is all you need, doses like that you're looking at serious IGF-1 levels doing its magic(making it easier to grow in future cycles-- you should shed some pounds, dont get crazy though. You see guys bursting on 8k cals daily, ridiculous ammounts. Addin some T3 at least if you're looking at eating crazy like that and arent 300+ lbs, T3/HGH otherwise youll just get fat. Im not a big believer in bulking to get fat though, lbm is all i care about.. Also im a big believer in test causing hyperplastia, splitting/new development of musclcells through the large increases in IGF-1, you can see it working its magic, day to day physique improvments.. loss of bodyfat, strength gains, recovery

I cruised with igf-1 like i said, 4weeks at 40mcg daily alongside 50mg of prop. Was sick of pinning by then so i dropped it, recovery was simple. But always is after igf-1 for me, main reason like i said for stopping was mostly outta pain. I could still burst now but you just get sick of it, starts to control your life.. on a side note, ive seen these bursts ran up to 10g-week. Big guys though, definately wouldnt recommend it

**Warrior** · 03-05-2007, 08:11 AM

Yeah, I am priming for another spin (have retained everything from the last one - and then some - while cutting up well) and I think I am going to ramp up proteins but keep carbs a little lower this time (last time I just kept eatin' and eatin' - so hopefully this time there is less grissel to carve off later. You get bloated and feel like a tank while on; however I did notice that you do harden up pretty quick coming off...

**superstar21** · 03-05-2007, 08:37 AM

thats good, priming is nice if you can still pull it off natty but eventually you'll start losin lbm alongside fat when you drop the cals. Not a big fan of long periods of priming though, there's plenty of things to increase sensitivity to adrogens. I used to prime with DNP between cycles to drop the fat, find it to be very protein sparing and great for priming.. Plus you get the anabolic rebound

**Schmidty** · 03-05-2007, 08:44 AM

Why not use TNE at the start to get the most out of it.

**Nate Dawg** · 03-05-2007, 09:23 PM

Schmidty I have considered that, and may try it...I've brewed some test suspension in EO that was completely painless at 100mg/ml.

**Nate Dawg** · 03-05-2007, 09:24 PM

Bump on the GH protocols...

**Warrior** · 03-06-2007, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by superstar21

thats good, priming is nice if you can still pull it off natty but eventually you'll start losin lbm alongside fat when you drop the cals. Not a big fan of long periods of priming though, there's plenty of things to increase sensitivity to adrogens. I used to prime with DNP between cycles to drop the fat, find it to be very protein sparing and great for priming.. Plus you get the anabolic rebound

I prime using an AM dose of bromocriptine to support metabolism (based on research by Lyle Mcdonald) - and it works very well; routinely losing 1-2 pounds of fat per week while maintaining strength. Once I hit a hard 225 I will begin the cycle... currently depleting down to 229. I also like to introduce Proviron toward the end of the prime to support natural T levels... right when priming starts to get old and I really get eager to get the heavy lifting started... just to push out a few more weeks to really keep the energy pent up and harden up some more

Nate Dawg - I know Marcus is a strong supporter for GH use and, correct me if I am wrong Marcus but you seem to really support it during the priming period. Personally, I still have a barrier up against using it... I did a few years back but didn't feel the cost-to-benefit ration could justify it. During my priming - I go for high lactate producing workouts using giant sets - three exercises done back-to-back with no rest, for three revolutions per muscle group. Endogenous GH spurts seem to have a dose-response relationship with lactate production from training...

**marcus300** · 03-06-2007, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Nate Dawg

Bump on the GH protocols...

Many bodybuilders support GH while priming, a low maintenance dose for the wks while priming does seem to help the whole process and many report holding onto more muscle tissue. When the cycle starts on day one the GH needs to be ran at a higher dose along side all the other compounds being used.

**superstar21** · 03-06-2007, 02:50 AM

well, tne would need to be shot 2x daily.. 100mg/ml, be quite hard to train heavy/unrestricted which is what you want on these cycles. As 30days, every workout counts