Giving blood to lower red blood cell count

**sdstacker** · 05-12-2007, 02:48 PM

I am currently running a stout dose of Equi (1 gram a week), and I can tell that my red blood cell count is up. I have read that some people give blood to lower their red cell count. Will this decrease vascularity? I have also heard that giving blood will make me feel less lethargic. This seems counterintuative to me since endurance athletes want a high red blood cell count so that their heart pumps more oxygen with each beat. Wouldn't lowering my red cell count cause my heart to have to work harder to move the same amount of oxygen, thereby causing me to be more tired? I would appreciate any insight...

**GHO5T** · 05-12-2007, 02:53 PM

High RBC count does enduce much more endurance for the user as well as bigger pumps when working out, amoung other things.

However if ones RBC count gets too high, lethargy could settle in, meaning you will feel very tired and lazy throughout the day, it could also result in high blood pressure which isnt good.

Assess yourself accordingly throughout the cycle and as the weeks go by, if your feeling very tired and or your blood pressure is going too high.

You know your RBC count is going to high, counter act this problem by as you stated giving blood, this will lower RBC count enough for the symptoms to subside.

~GHO5T~

**marcus300** · 05-12-2007, 03:15 PM

A high RBC makes you lethergic and the heart struggle pumping the blood around if it get to high, best and quickest way to solve the problem is give blood. Ive had a very high count once and was rushed in for a section which cured the problem.

**rhino1** · 05-12-2007, 03:44 PM

RN here

JUST DRINK MORE WATER...your blood is more viscous...(thick)...that is why you are lethargic...to a point higher RBC count will enhance your endurance...but when it becomes too thick...sure it will carry more o2....but it will be too hard to move through your body....resulting in lethargy.

**NewVader** · 05-12-2007, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

A high RBC makes you lethergic and the heart struggle pumping the blood around if it get to high, best and quickest way to solve the problem is give blood. Ive had a very high count once and was rushed in for a section which cured the problem.

I have 2 questions:

1 if you give away all that blood, won't it carry away the hormones that are dissolved it it ( the same hormones for which it took all that time to build up after weeks of injections) therefore hindering your gains?

2 If you give your blood with all those hormones 2 very bad things could happen: either they could give blood loaded with test and male hormones to a female causing all sort of virilization problems or, more likely to avoid this they are going to test it. So then if they test it and find out you have tons of testosteron boldenone oxrandrolone and so on in your blood and willingfully gave it without mentioning a thing they could get very angry at you, possibly inform the police and bust you for both possession of steroids and even worse for reckless blood donation!!

does this make sense?
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**TheSentinal** · 05-12-2007, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by NewVader

I have 2 questions:

1 if you give away all that blood, won't it carry away the hormones that are dissolved it it ( the same hormones for which it took all that time to build up after weeks of injections) therefore hindering your gains?

2 If you give your blood with all those hormones 2 very bad things could happen: either they could give blood loaded with test and male hormones to a female causing all sort of virilization problems or, more likely to avoid this they are going to test it. So then if they test it and find out you have tons of testosteron boldenone oxrandrolone and so on in your blood and willingfully gave it without mentioning a thing they could get very angry at you, possibly inform the police and bust you for both possession of steroids and even worse for reckless blood donation!!

does this make sense?
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Giving blood will not harm anyone. The blood is dliuted when given to others. It is safe. You may save someone's life.

**ironaddict69** · 05-12-2007, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by TheSentinal

Giving blood will not harm anyone. The blood is dliuted when given to others. It is safe. You may save someone's life.

what about the compounds weve been injecting? alot of it lowers if a good amount of blood is given corect?

**NewVader** · 05-13-2007, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by TheSentinal

Giving blood will not harm anyone. The blood is dliuted when given to others. It is safe. You may save someone's life.

well I don't know about being diluted or not but even if it is, if you inject 2 g of test a week and that blood ends up in a female I don't believe it's going to do her good, hence they must test it before....anone else?

***perfectbeast2001*** · 05-13-2007, 03:28 AM

this question has been dealt with before. i suffer from high RBC, the only way to reduce it immediately is to give blood. this has no bad side effects and makes you feel better, plus it is dangerous to have high RBC so giving boold is important. Also it has been shown that a compound in grapefruit can reduce RBC over time in studies. One grapefruit a day was used and it reduced RBC by quite a margin.

**Lion King** · 05-13-2007, 05:44 AM

What are your levels? I can't imagine your hematocrit is getting over 50 which is within normal limits but quite hard to obtain for most. Regardless whether or not you give blood, taking a couple of asprin ED will assist blood flow cosiderably.

**Vitor Ennnergy** · 05-13-2007, 06:42 AM

It is very unlikely that any kind of androgens can rise the blood hematocrit to a level that give blood is a must .
Some kind of anemias , mainly the aplastic kind, can be treated with add of androgens (is not the first line treatment) , and in these cases the choosen drug is oxymetholone.
Br sure to keep very well hydrated and this should be enough.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 05-13-2007, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Vitor Ennnergy

It is very unlikely that any kind of androgens can rise the blood hematocrit to a level that give blood is a must .
Some kind of anemias , mainly the aplastic kind, can be treated with add of androgens (is not the first line treatment) , and in these cases the choosen drug is oxymetholone.
Br sure to keep very well hydrated and this should be enough.

Anything with a high anabolic ratio can raise RBC (so thats pretty much all AS except a handful of DHT derived compounds). I know this from experience.

**Serotonin** · 05-13-2007, 09:18 AM

I would say that 99% of the people that use gear, are just ASSUMING their RBC count is high enough to the point that their symptoms are actually stemming from it. Using any type of androgen is going to cause your cells to go into protein synthesis OVERDRIVE, and of course this is going to cause fatigue. Also, the benefits of increased RBC count are increased oxygen delivery! A very high RBC count causes polycythemia and yes, there are risks associated with it but before it even becomes remotely severe there are a lot of other symptoms that will become apparent. Google it and look it up from actual medical sources and not some Joe's opinion. (myself included)

First, if you're giving blood you shouldn't. There is no debate about this in the United States, you're being deceptive and lying if you give blood while on or just after a cycle. The rules are clearly stated when you attempt to give blood. Because not only are you injecting yourself with a steroid but you're probably taking a SERM and an aromatase inhibitor as well. Second, until I see some actual lab work showing someone's hematocrit this falls into the realm of speculation. The human body wasn't naturally meant to grow as fast as it does when on steroids , the body ensures testosterone stays at a certain level with a negative feedback loop. Growing that much in a month or two will cause FATIGUE.

**If anyone does have labwork with hematocrit please post it.

**marcus300** · 05-13-2007, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Serotonin

I would say that 99% of the people that use gear, are just ASSUMING their RBC count is high enough to the point that their symptoms are actually stemming from it. Using any type of androgen is going to cause your cells to go into protein synthesis OVERDRIVE, and of course this is going to cause fatigue. Also, the benefits of increased RBC count are increased oxygen delivery! A very high RBC count causes polycythemia and yes, there are risks associated with it but before it even becomes remotely severe there are a lot of other symptoms that will become apparent. Google it and look it up from actual medical sources and not some Joe's opinion. (myself included)

First, if you're giving blood you shouldn't. There is no debate about this in the United States, you're being deceptive and lying if you give blood while on or just after a cycle. The rules are clearly stated when you attempt to give blood. Because not only are you injecting yourself with a steroid but you're probably taking a SERM and an aromatase inhibitor as well. Second, until I see some actual lab work showing someone's hematocrit this falls into the realm of speculation. The human body wasn't naturally meant to grow as fast as it does when on steroids , the body ensures testosterone stays at a certain level with a negative feedback loop. Growing that much in a month or two will cause FATIGUE.

**If anyone does have labwork with hematocrit please post it.

I went to the doctors for bloodwork due to syptoms I had and my RBC were at a dangerous level he said I had polycythemia, I was sent striaght to the hospital for a section. best way to see if you have a high RBC is get bloodwork

**Lion King** · 05-13-2007, 09:45 AM

Marcus, what is your normal hematocrit and how much was it at this dangerous level?

**Lion King** · 05-13-2007, 09:48 AM

I don't have my lab work handy but normal hematocrit levels go from 36 to 50. I women's can be much lower after mestration. My normal level is 43-44. Guys like Lance Armstrong probably have a natural level at 49-50 and maybe higher.
Before new testing proceedures, several riders in the Tour de France posted levels in the low 60's.

**Serotonin** · 05-13-2007, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I went to the doctors for bloodwork due to syptoms I had and my RBC were at a dangerous level he said I had polycythemia, I was sent striaght to the hospital for a section. best way to see if you have a high RBC is get bloodwork

Agreed. Do the bloodwork and let the Dr. decide.

**ironaddict69** · 05-13-2007, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Serotonin

I would say that 99% of the people that use gear, are just ASSUMING their RBC count is high enough to the point that their symptoms are actually stemming from it. Using any type of androgen is going to cause your cells to go into protein synthesis OVERDRIVE, and of course this is going to cause fatigue. Also, the benefits of increased RBC count are increased oxygen delivery! A very high RBC count causes polycythemia and yes, there are risks associated with it but before it even becomes remotely severe there are a lot of other symptoms that will become apparent. Google it and look it up from actual medical sources and not some Joe's opinion. (myself included)

First, if you're giving blood you shouldn't. There is no debate about this in the United States, you're being deceptive and lying if you give blood while on or just after a cycle. The rules are clearly stated when you attempt to give blood. Because not only are you injecting yourself with a steroid but you're probably taking a SERM and an aromatase inhibitor as well. Second, until I see some actual lab work showing someone's hematocrit this falls into the realm of speculation. The human body wasn't naturally meant to grow as fast as it does when on steroids , the body ensures testosterone stays at a certain level with a negative feedback loop. Growing that much in a month or two will cause FATIGUE.

**If anyone does have labwork with hematocrit please post it.

ur smart, i like you.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 05-13-2007, 05:37 PM

same thing happened to me as happened to marcus, also 2 guys in my gym had the same problem all verified by bloodwork, so I would say there that high RBC due to AS use is more common than most (including medical professionals) think.

**NewVader** · 05-13-2007, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

this question has been dealt with before. i suffer from high RBC, the only way to reduce it immediately is to give blood. this has no bad side effects and makes you feel better, plus it is dangerous to have high RBC so giving boold is important. Also it has been shown that a compound in grapefruit can reduce RBC over time in studies. One grapefruit a day was used and it reduced RBC by quite a margin.

why are you trying to ignore the issue that I raised?

is it because you dont have an explanation?

I don't mean to be rude but sweaping things under the rug won't do people any good..

how can you possibly donate your blood full of androgens without telling the docs?and even if you didnt tell them how can you expect they do not test it and fint out. They test it for all possible dangers to the receivers like hiv diseases etc, how do you think they could give blood full of androgens to a female without testing it first?

I think anyone who gives blood should give an explanation, even if the explanation is " I dont give a shit I do it anyways" so that at lease other people know

***perfectbeast2001*** · 05-13-2007, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by NewVader

why are you trying to ignore the issue that I raised?

is it because you dont have an explanation?

I don't mean to be rude but sweaping things under the rug won't do people any good..

how can you possibly donate your blood full of androgens without telling the docs?and even if you didnt tell them how can you expect they do not test it and fint out. They test it for all possible dangers to the receivers like hiv diseases etc, how do you think they could give blood full of androgens to a female without testing it first?

I think anyone who gives blood should give an explanation, even if the explanation is " I dont give a shit I do it anyways" so that at lease other people know

Quit wining. I give blood out of nessecity. Androgens are not transferred in large enough ammounts to cause any sides. And stop with the writing in bold and the demanding tone its very irritating.

**Serotonin** · 05-13-2007, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

same thing happened to me as happened to marcus, also 2 guys in my gym had the same problem all verified by bloodwork, so I would say there that high RBC due to AS use is more common than most (including medical professionals) think.

Beast, out of curiosity what was the cycle you were on when this happened man? I would like to put some of this info together and maybe use my own blood as a test while I'm on a similar cycle. Maybe there are some common values that can be determined from specific compounds for causing excessive erythropoiesis!

Marcus, if you can post too what the cycle was that would be awesome!

-Thanks

**NewVader** · 05-13-2007, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

Quit wining. I give blood out of nessecity. Androgens are not transferred in large enough ammounts to cause any sides. And stop with the writing in bold and the demanding tone its very irritating.

Dude, I dont want to get into an argument but just keep in mind that If you had answered at first instead of ignoring the question there would have been no need of writing in bold.

Yet you have not answered the question. that you give blood out of necessity is clear, what is still unclear is what you tell the docs about the drugs you are taking.
You state that androgens are not transeferred in large amounts but I bet they ask you to list all the medications you are on for a reason....
I don't think it is good advice to tell people to go give blood when they could get both someone else and themselves in trouble.

**peteroy01** · 05-13-2007, 11:50 PM

18g and a measuring cup. problem solved.(joke)

***perfectbeast2001*** · 05-14-2007, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by NewVader

Dude, I dont want to get into an argument but just keep in mind that If you had answered at first instead of ignoring the question there would have been no need of writing in bold.

Yet you have not answered the question. that you give blood out of necessity is clear, what is still unclear is what you tell the docs about the drugs you are taking.
You state that androgens are not transeferred in large amounts but I bet they ask you to list all the medications you are on for a reason....
I don't think it is good advice to tell people to go give blood when they could get both someone else and themselves in trouble.

I do not tell the doctor who takes blood that I use AS as then he would not take the blood due to the fact that i have used a needle which apparently puts me at high risk from HIV/Hep. In the UK it is not a problem to use AS so I will not "get in trouble". I did look into this thoughouly before I did it and made sure I was not putting myself or recievers into any danger.
You say I was avoiding your question, to be honest I didnt even read it at first, i simply typed a response to the thread. Og and it may interest you to know I give blood in two different names so i can do it more frequently, both of them are false. Happy now.

AS cycles that have caused me high RBC

Test 1g per week, Deca 600mg per week, 12 weeks
Test prop 100mg ED Tren 75mg EOD, Winny 50mg ED test run for 12 weeks other compounds for 6.

**ironaddict69** · 05-14-2007, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

Quit wining. I give blood out of nessecity. Androgens are not transferred in large enough ammounts to cause any sides. And stop with the writing in bold and the demanding tone its very irritating.

honestly. im not giving blood to help someone out. if it does, great. but i dont give a fvck what they ask you before giving it, theyre gunna test it nomatter what. people lie, they know that. im giving blood to keep myself healthy. END OF STORY. beast, what were ur signs of high RBC?

**marcus300** · 05-14-2007, 02:19 AM

If you have bloodwork done by your doctor he will send you to the hospital for
venesection, this is what happened to me he told me I had Polycthaemia and it was at a dangerous level.

In the UK when you give blood its screened for everything so you dont have to tell them anything if you dont want.

Giving blood is a easy opition than going to the doctors for bloodwork then to hospital but the end result is the same.

Hope this as answered your questions

**ironaddict69** · 05-14-2007, 03:19 AM

doesnt giving blood reduce the level of hormones in our body? like we we were injecting a gram of test per week, wouldnt our blood levels drop if we gave a significant amount of blood?

**musclehead1** · 05-14-2007, 03:25 AM

What about you guys that can't legally give blood. What do you do when your RBC is high?

**NewVader** · 05-14-2007, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

I do not tell the doctor who takes blood that I use AS as then he would not take the blood due to the fact that i have used a needle which apparently puts me at high risk from HIV/Hep. In the UK it is not a problem to use AS so I will not "get in trouble". I did look into this thoughouly before I did it and made sure I was not putting myself or recievers into any danger.
You say I was avoiding your question, to be honest I didnt even read it at first, i simply typed a response to the thread. Og and it may interest you to know I give blood in two different names so i can do it more frequently, both of them are false. Happy now.

AS cycles that have caused me high RBC

Test 1g per week, Deca 600mg per week, 12 weeks
Test prop 100mg ED Tren 75mg EOD, Winny 50mg ED test run for 12 weeks other compounds for 6.

I believe you!!! I just wanted to catch your attention somehow, I hope you havent taken offence

**TheSentinal** · 05-14-2007, 04:33 AM

Save a life and donate. If you have HIV or some other infectious disease, then don't. We need to look at the bigger picture here. Someone bleeding to death in a hospital needs blood. Trust the blood center screening process. They are looking for drug users and HIV, not steroids .

***perfectbeast2001*** · 05-14-2007, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by NewVader

I believe you!!! I just wanted to catch your attention somehow, I hope you havent taken offence

none taken.

**Dobie-BOY** · 05-14-2007, 04:10 PM

the human body carries (dont quote me on this) 6-8 percent (in pints) of blood per pound of body weight. If you were injecting 1 g of test a week, of which is not going to equal 1 g of test in the blood system (would probably be less), but for argurment sake lets say there was one G of free test floating around in your blood system and you are a male wei***ng 200 lbs. that would still only be 71 mgs of testosterone per pint. Im no mathematician, but I believe this is correct.

**ironaddict69** · 05-14-2007, 11:37 PM

okay but it DOES lower ur levels....right? its gotta.

**Dobie-BOY** · 05-15-2007, 01:39 AM

Ya, im sure it does. I just dont think that it would be enough to worry about yourself or the person receiving the blood. I just donated today. Im gonna check out my BP tomorrow and see if it goes down any.

**Dobie-BOY** · 05-15-2007, 01:39 AM

Ya, im sure it does. I just dont think that it would be enough to worry about yourself or the person receiving the blood. I just donated today. Im gonna check out my BP tomorrow and see if it goes down any.

**Idunno** · 05-15-2007, 04:30 PM

in addition to the many other statments made here, I would like to add the following:

Unless you have never given blood before you should know they label each piece of equipment used t otake and store your blood (excluding teh stuff they throw away) and they give you a paper with this number on it and a phone number and instructions. The instructions clearly state that if you feel that for any reason you blood may be unfit for use just call the number and enter the number anonymously and the blood is destroyed. There's no need to tell the donation center about your aas use but if you feel bothered about giving your "bad blood" to someone else, then just have it destroyed after the fact.

For reference I volunteer evyer month for my local RedCross and dontate semi-regularly so I am pretty sure my statement is correct.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 05-15-2007, 04:48 PM

giving blood def lowers RBC. The doctor reffered both me and a friend of mine to have blood drawn when we had high RBCs due to AS use.

**pr0digalsun** · 05-15-2007, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by NewVader

I don't think it is good advice to tell people to go give blood when they could get both someone else and themselves in trouble.

They do not give your blood whole to patients. When people get a "blood transfusion" they do not get whole blood. they only get the part of the blood they need. the blood bank seperates out all hormones other things by spinning the blood out.

when you dontate blood it it seperated into 3 parts:
1. Platelets are used to aid blood clotting for people whose blood will not clot on its own
2. Red blood cells which are used for trauma victims, surgery patients, and anemics.
3. Plasma which is used for people with low clotting factors, burn victims and patients in shock.

most anything else in the blood is thrown away. so you wont be donating your cycle to some old lady who broke her hip. However, some medication, such as aspirin will make your platelets less effective, but the blood bank test for all of these, and destroy the blood if it doesnt pass their testing

**Ryler** · 05-15-2007, 11:29 PM

Some of these posts and speculations that the "cops will get you" for donating "bad blood" are completely proposterous and I am now dumber for having read them. Think about this... there is, on average, 5 Liters of blood in a human males body. You donate a pint. Do you know how many pints are in a liter? If your blood levels are steady at your 500mg test dose, how many mg are really in that pint? Answer....not enough to kill some female so whats even the point of all this debate?