Erythropoietin

[tri-athlete]

I have spent the last week (and plan to research for many more) about the advantages and disadvantages of EPO. I also believe I have searched and read all the threads relating to the substance in the sites forum. But I'm still skeptical about some of the information I have found. I have a few questions.

1. Do EPO injections really hurt as much as some people say?
2. What is the most effective dosage breakdown? (i.e. 1000 iu e.d. for 14 days, 2000 iu eod for 14 days...)
3. Considering I have a regular hemo of 40-45, and danger occurs over 50; With 4000 iu raising my hemo 1/3 of 1 point at 175 lbs...Could I afford to neglect blood testing, and rely on blood pressure testing while running a 14,000 iu cycle?

[tri-athlete]

bump

[Njord]

Bump. Someone gotta know about how to use/cycle EPO.

[proironaust]

bump

[tri-athlete]

c'mon guys...

[goose]

Your not going to find people who use it here,your going to have to use the research function.

[goose]

Help...Fever and Chills after every inj (5-6 hours after)

Check out this guys old posts,he was the master on EPO

[epno]

Here's some info I've found surfing on the subject. Overall, EPO sounds like a risky proposition to me.....

#17
09-30-2006, 10:20 PM

mSHY8
New Member Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13



Yes, there are cyclists here...

Here is info I got on EPO use:

A world-renowned expert on the use of EPO to illegally enhance performance in sport has told procycling that Dario Frigo would have been “unlikely” to test positive even if the Italian had used several doses of the drug between the first rest day of the Tour de France and its conclusion in Paris.

Michel Audran is a member of the Science and Industry against Blood Doping (SIAB) organisation and recently completed a WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency)-funded clinical study on the use of reduced doses of EPO. Reacting today to the arrest of both Frigo and his wife, who is reported to have been in possession of 10 doses of EPO when stopped by police near Chambéry, Audran outlined what he believes is a reliable and increasingly popular method of evading both the UCI’s urine and blood tests.

According to Audran, the use of small doses of EPO restricts the drug’s window of detection to around 24 hours or even less. International Cycling Union medical officials have previously stated that EPO showed up in their tests for between four and 14 days after usage.

While not wishing to speculate about Frigo’s individual case, Audran admitted that the quantity of the drug seized by French police corresponded to his suspicions about how the banned hormone could now be used in cycling.

“The principle of using micro-doses of EPO is to maintain a certain haematocrit and haemoglobin level,” Audran, contacted by telephone, told procycling. “My findings have confirmed to me that this is a very effective method and could be used during the Tour de France. Whereas, previously, a rider might artificially boost his haematocrit with EPO a week or more before the Tour, now he might still do that, but he will also top up with very small doses up to three times per week during the race. By very small doses I mean five times less than a ‘normal’ dose.

Audran then cited the hypothetical example of a rider with an “average” natural haematocrit of 42 per cent raised artificially to 48 per cent with conventional doses of EPO prior to the Tour de France. “Before the UCI introduced blood tests in 1997, riders were boosting their haematocrit by 10, 15 or even 20 points. I say that based on the kind of figures we saw in the trial of Dr Michele Ferrari. Consider that a 10 per cent increase in haematocrit translates into a six or seven per cent increase in VO2 max. Now, riders can no longer raise their haematocrit to above 50 but they can stay at 48 throughout the Tour with micro-doses of EPO - between six and 10 Ul/kg - twice or three times per week. It’s a very precise method which enables you to basically 'pick’ a haematocrit, roughly to the nearest point.”

The final obstacle standing in the way of the EPO cheat, says Audran, is the UCI detection method introduced amid considerable fanfare in 2001. But small doses also mean a small probability of being caught, says the professor.

“The kind of quantities of EPO we are talking about will be detectable for around 24 hours after intravenous injection,” Audran indicated. “In theory, this means that a rider taking a micro-dose of EPO the evening before a big mountain stage runs the risk of being caught if tested after the next day’s stage. In reality, however, my research suggests that, with the fluids you lose in a big mountain stage and the stress exerted on your body, I am confident that there won’t be enough EPO in your system at the end of the stage to trigger a positive test. That’s why I’d be in favour of introducing urine tests on the morning of stages rather than at the end. ”

Audran’s comments will doubtless send shockwaves through a Tour de France caravan already reeling from the Russian Evgeni Petrov’s exclusion from the race for a failed haematocrit test on Tuesday. Petrov returned to his home in Forte dei Marmi, Italy, in disgrace yesterday with Lampre apparently excluding the likelihood that the Russian’s failed blood test could be explained by anything other than doping. Team manager Claudio Corti said yesterday that Petrov would not be welcome at Lampre-Caffita when he is eligible to return to racing, more tests permitting, in 15 days’ time.
EPO would be ideal for what you are looking to accomplish, but as others stated it is not to be used haphazardly, as it CAN be quite dangerous. Get a baseline level from a blood test, and CHECK PERIODICALLY. Stay hydrated, and watch for headaches. If headaches do occur, begin taking aspirin and discontinue or lower dosage accordingly.

#19
07-15-2004, 02:45 PM


Justin_Case
New Member Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 24



http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/pha...506PTNews.html
Iron Evaluation. Sufficient iron stores are necessary for an adequate response to EPO. Iron status, including transferrin saturation and serum ferritin, should be evaluated prior to therapy. Adequate iron supplementation during EPO therapy is necessary to support erythropoiesis and to avoid further ***letion of iron stores. Transferrin saturation should be at least 20% and ferritin should be at least 100 ng/ml. 4

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB....asp?Doi=30973
Initial storage iron status is a marginally important limitation to EPO-mediated erythropoiesis in the setting of oral iron supplementation. Strategies to maintain plasma transferrin saturation with intravenous iron therapy may be desirable to improve the erythropoietic response to EPO in this setting.

http://fn.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/79/1/F44
In conclusion, we found that early administration of high doses r-HuEPO to preterm infants with iron supplements significantly reduces the need for blood transfusions, iron supplements in conjunction with r-HuEPO yield higher reticulocytes and haematocrit after the fourth week of life, and infants treated with r-HuEPO alone show signs of iron deficiency. We emphasise that further studies are needed on the safety, timing, and efficacy of iron supplements during r-HuEPO treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...st_uids=100842 94&dopt=Abstract
Iron deficiency is the most frequently encountered cause of suboptimal response to recombinant human erythropoietin (rHuEPO). Carefully assessing iron status is of paramount importance in chronic renal failure patients prior to or during rHuEPO therapy. Because there is great need for iron in the EPO-stimulated erythroid progenitors, it is essential that serum ferritin and transferrin saturation levels should be maintained over 300 microg/liter and 30%, respectively. Investigators have shown that oral iron is unlikely to keep pace with the iron demand for an optimal rHuEPO response in uremics. Therefore, patients with iron deficiency will always require intravenous iron therapy. The early and prompt iron supplementation can lead to reductions in rHuEPO dose

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...entation&hl=en
Iron supplementation is important for both drugs to enhance the response to EPO. Estimations show that as many as half of cancer patients whose anemia is not corrected are not responding to treatment because their iron levels are too low.
The studies weren't performed on perfectly healthy individuas w/ a noraml iron level. People w/ cancer, or other diseases that have low crit and a low rbc count would need to supplement w/ iron.

Someone who just wants to benefit from epo for sport performance does not need to supplemnt iron into their diet

Ah...something I know a little about. I have used EPO quite a few times in the past. Here's the deal. You don't really start feeling the effects for 2-3 weeks. I injected (with a slin pin in my tris) EOD at 3000 IU. I shot twice that day at 1500 IU mixed per 1ml. After 2-3 weeks you should do a once weekly maintenance dose. As the gentleman above stated, I got the freeze dried vials that have 3000 IU each. This means no storage for me, since I empty one EOD all at once. Pricing is around 8 bills for 99K units (by the way, I am not a seller or do I know of a source anymore). You should only do 2 cycles in a year to avoid developing EPO antibodies (which is what happened to Marco Pantani). 99k units should last a whole year....so if you think about it...its not that expensive. Now, if we are talking about the brand name EPOGEN or Procrit...etc; which need to be refrigerated always, we are talking about more $.

As for sides...if you are smart....they are much less than AAS. In fact, EPO can be very therapeutic while not messing with your natty Test...etc; We are talking decreased recovery times, better cognitive function, better sleep, etc; . Now here's the important stuff...YOU MUST MONITOR YOUR BP. Buy yourself a Auto BP monitor and check it daily. It is also good advice to take a daily aspirin and mucho importante always stay hydrated!!! Before you start an EPO regimen check you hematocrit levels via a blood test (simple blood test which does not require a large draw). Normal Hematocrit (Red Blood Cell) levels range from low 40's to around 50 (the number is based upon percentage in your blood, so a 50 HC level means your blood is 50%. Athletes typically shoot for a Hematocrit level of about 55 or slightly higher. Once, you approach 60, you are asking for trouble . This is what those cyclists (Festina) in the past did not understand since it was new stuff. Based upon your Pre-EPO Hematocrit level you should determine when you should recheck it. Everyone has different Crit levels...so this is a step that must not be skipped. If anyone is going to use it please consult me and I will help make sure you are as safe as can be. Remember, the reason that those cyclists in the past died was because of lack of knowledge on how to use it.

www.lwscientific.com zip-o-crit centrifuge.

[tri-athlete]

thanks a lot man very helpful. it can be a very complicated drug in some aspects.