Good read on tendons and AAS...

[dece870717]

Taken from a post from another forum so credit to that guy for posting it...

"While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS, the decision is up to you."

[ottomaddox]

Makes a lot of sense, definitely something to think about when contemplating a cycle.

[magic32]

Testosterone will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

While the preceding statements MAY be true, though I've never sought/read the clinical evidence to support them (nor were they included), the bolded statement certainly is not. That is to say even if your tendons are somewhat weakened by Test usage the quoted percentages just don't translate into his bolded simile...else every aas user would have at least a few torn tendon stories. Who among us doesn't lift very heavy on cycle, pushing the envelope to experience the expected strength increases? Such excess would surely leave gyms everywhere littered with tattered bodies.

Paper reports don't always translate to Real World results...take Halo as an example.

[taiboxa]

i saw that read long ago.. many people disregard w/ the whole thing since the one who composed it included no citations for the sources of info.

[bpm1]

very interesting ,something i have thought/worried about alot

[JackBauer]

very good read, I never understood why deca was good for joints, great explanation why.. Should be updated in the deca profile on the site as well!

[magic32]

i saw that read long ago.. many people disregard w/ the whole thing since the one who composed it included no citations for the sources of info.

Precisely, you can quote alleged stats until the end of days, but what good are all these hundreds of percentages (180%, 270%, 340%) without a single study backing?

[akh 1985]

basically all the top powerlifters run test year round, if this was true wouldnt they be injured constantly?

[JackBauer]

where did you get the idea that all powerlifters run test year round? especially ones that compete in the olympics

[akh 1985]

1st powerlifting isnt in the olympics

2nd westside runs test year round and a lot of the best lifters come from there

3rd why do you think there are untested feds

[JackBauer]

1 powerlifting/ weightlifting is an olympic sport the difference may be styles
2 westside is a style of lifting so i dont know how he it runs test year round

[akh 1985]

powerlifting is generally squat/bench/deadlift highest total wins

olympic lifting is clean and jerk/snatch highest total wins

and westside is a gym in columbus ohio ran by louie simmons

do some research nest time before you jump someones shit

[JackBauer]

i agknowledged the fact that the 2 styles are different, so your an idiot for saying that powerlifting isnt an olympic sport, read someones response before you google olympic sports and write down that info buddy

[perfectbeast2001]

i agknowledged the fact that the 2 styles are different, so your an idiot for saying that powerlifting isnt an olympic sport, read someones response before you google olympic sports and write down that info buddy

powerlifting IS NOT an olympic sport. FACT.

[JackBauer]

i know that PB it was a typo im not gonna argue that anymore, i was just simply saying i cant understand why he would think powerlifters run test all year because they do get tested by international leagues as do weighlifters in olympics.

"westside runs test year round" is what was confusing me i dont know what that means

[perfectbeast2001]

i know that PB it was a typo im not gonna argue that anymore, i was just simply saying i cant understand why he would think powerlifters run test all year because they do get tested by international leagues as do weighlifters in olympics.

"westside runs test year round" is what was confusing me i dont know what that means

I think he is suggesting that westside philosophy is to run test all year round. I cant confirm if that is true as i dont train in that style. What i would say is that all the powerlifters i have met (bar 1) had huge AS intakes, There cycles tend to be year round and made up of whatever they can get hold of!

[pr0digy9daniel]

The first thing I thought when I read this is where did the auther get his so called percentages and ideas from. While I havent really gone looking, I dont recall any studies about this... I suppose all I can guess this article suggests is instead of running superdoses of test, run test and deca or test and eq, but I really do doubt the facts they are presenting unless they can back them up with sources properly...

[spooledup]

This article has been around for years and has never been substantiated.

[akh 1985]

i agknowledged the fact that the 2 styles are different, so your an idiot for saying that powerlifting isnt an olympic sport, read someones response before you google olympic sports and write down that info buddy

styles? what thr fu#k does that mean. do you even know the difference between a squat and a clean or bench press and snatch?
and yes not all powerlifters run test year round, i was just suggesting the guys who compete in non tested feds(wpo,apf,etc.....)

and actually i didnt have too google it.
I have competed in powerlifting for the last year now, i know two guys personally who train at westside and they run test year round.
we even have a world record holder from westside on this site

Not to bad for a fat powerlifter

read post 59

[hauss man]

powerlifting is generally squat/bench/deadlift highest total wins

olympic lifting is clean and jerk/snatch highest total wins

and westside is a gym in columbus ohio ran by louie simmons

do some research nest time before you jump someones shit

hahahahaha

[jbonez19]

i know that PB it was a typo im not gonna argue that anymore, i was just simply saying i cant understand why he would think powerlifters run test all year because they do get tested by international leagues as do weighlifters in olympics.

"westside runs test year round" is what was confusing me i dont know what that means

it was a typo this whole thread sucks. the information is highly questionable, and people are continuing to quote it. i think someone should consider deleting it! and as for JB calling someone else an idiot, well.....