"cycles " Whats Your's ????

[thegodfather]

Alot of people are using Anthony Roberts pct...

I have also used it in the past. I think its a great pct...


Merc.

Yea, and I think that that article he wrote, was really instrumental in dispelling the myth that HCG was NEVER to be used during PCT. For a while before that you had the occasional person here and there who would write about using it in PCT, and they would just get ripped apart on the boards. I'm glad to see that it is widely accepted for PCT, and not just on cycle now. The combination he proposed is great. I get pre&post cycle bloodwork, and using that method of PCT was definately superior to others...

[Merc..]

Yea, and I think that that article he wrote, was really instrumental in dispelling the myth that HCG was NEVER to be used during PCT. For a while before that you had the occasional person here and there who would write about using it in PCT, and they would just get ripped apart on the boards. I'm glad to see that it is widely accepted for PCT, and not just on cycle now. The combination he proposed is great. I get pre&post cycle bloodwork, and using that method of PCT was definately superior to others...

Alot of people didnt like HCG for pct do to its suppressive nature.. As Anthony has shown ( in his pct article) using nolva with HCG will block the conversion of 17 OHP to test thus making HCG a good compound to use for pct when used in conjuction with nolva and an a type 1 AI ( aromasin )..


Merc.

[Johny-too-small]

So will you be priming again ?? Is it something you want to do before all your cycles now that you have tried it ?


Bump for more peeps that have primed ??



Merc.

Ill prime b4 bulking cycles, only. Im going to try to maintain my bf at sub 10%from now on and Im not going to ever compete so I doubt if I ever run a cutter again.... In regards to shorter cycles, under 8 weeks, I think whatever your goals are, priming should be utilized before cycles. Just my opinion.

[Merc..]

Ill prime b4 bulking cycles, only. Im going to try to maintain my bf at sub 10%from now on and Im not going to ever compete so I doubt if I ever run a cutter again.... In regards to shorter cycles, under 8 weeks, I think whatever your goals are, priming should be utilized before cycles. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the feedback..


Merc.

[Merc..]

no doubt merc. ill keep you posted!!

Merc.

[Amorphic]

there was a really good article on priming done by marcus300 as well. forget where it is but im sure someone can dig it up

[Merc..]

there was a really good article on priming done by marcus300 as well. forget where it is but im sure someone can dig it up

The Prime explained before cycling..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently ive had alot of questions and request to post some information regarding the prime before a cycle, hopefully this will give some insight into the process.

The prime is a very valuable tool to have for any cycle-
This process creates a very anabolic environment so muscle tissue can grow at a fast rate when you start a cycle, there are plenty of ways this process can be done, When the prime is done correctly you will not believe how quickly the muscle gains come on straight from the start of any cycle,

You simply diet down slowly and lose fat, just like you do before a comp, alot of BB's who have done comps will understand this process and how much can be obtained at this special stage, Dorain was a big believer in this process and would be straight back into the gym after big shows taking advantage of this valuable stage.

I have tried many different ways with my own body to find out which one suits me better and i prefer to cycle my carbs 3 low 1 high, this will create a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow, the muscle receptors get highly excitable and upgrade and able to accept more glucose and because glucose levels are not full in the muscle the result is more deposited into the muscle when you start the cycle and increase the food,this environment builds muscle tissue very quickly, if this is done correctly and timed right when you start the cycle, growth is amazing, i feel priming is a must when considering any cycle but it does work and is ideal towards short cycling.

With the carb prime rotation process i follow 3 days low carbs(40% less than normal) 1 day high (15% higher than normal) You must have a basic stable diet which you have ran for afew wks before doing such a process, i feel this isn't to harsh on your muscle tissue and the 1 high carb day offsets any potential metabolic slowdown, which is extremely usefull in laying down metabolic boosting muscle or at least saving it. if this process is not done right you will lose muscle tissue so carefull planning is needed to hold on to all the muscle gains and only fat loss and putting your body into the correct environment is achieved, when any kind of priming is done an increase in protein/aminos acids will help to maintain the current muscle tissue, also GH would benefit in helping this process, the high carb/low carb rotational prime diet also upgrades the receptors cites on muscle tissue for insulin , this changes the body's ability to store carbs as glycogen in muscle tissue rather than fat. The priming works far better if its done over a longer period of time, your after burning unwanted body fat and maintaining muscle tissue and a slow reduction in carbs towards the cycle start, will create an ideal environment for huge muscle gains. Also the last 5 days to the run up to the start of the cycle should be low carbs (40%).

Another way of priming is the slow reduction of carbs within your diet over 6-8 weeks or longer, make sure protein is increased in any of the priming methods so muscle loss is stopped or at least kept to a minimum, when ever the prime is done it creates an environment for muscle tissue to grow very quickly so when you do start your cycle all this coupled with a AAS and all the other compounds you use and the increase in food intake makes this an ideal environment for muscle tissue to grow and huge tissue gains are experienced.

The idea is to create an environment,and you simple take advantage of the condition and use it to spring board into a cycle, there are certain things what must be in place so you dont receive muscle tissue loss before the cycle but when its done correctly the gains are amazing, its a excellent tool to have on any cycle.I feel alot of newbies think that AAS is the whole key to building the perfect body but its not, its just one tool for the job there are many other things what come into play to help the process of building muscle and priming is one of them.

Marcus

[Amorphic]

very informative

[Merc..]

Here is a article Warrior wrote on priming...



Priming 101 - Preparing for an AAS Growth Spurt
by Warrior

Frequently people research how to better layout an AAS cycle, as well as proper post cycle therapy for making the transition back to natural. Unfortunately, many neglect another component for a successful AAS cycle - maximizing the time spent on - pre cycle therapy, better know as Priming.

What is priming?

Priming is a prepatory method used to better prepare the body before starting an AAS cycle. The goal of priming is to make the system very sensitive to a flood of androgens, food and intense training. Most advanced bodybuilders (especially those that compete) know how responsive the body can be right after leaning up - such as the growth spurts that are frequently experienced after a competition... with or without AAS.

If done correctly, priming will surprise you by very quick and dramatic results. In my opinion, priming should be done before every cycle - no matter the athlete's previous cycle experience. Because of the quicker results, cycle duration could also be cut back to make coming off and restoring proper HPTA function easier. The basic principle here is to create an environment where you body is very responsive to increased calories and your mind feels pent up and ready to move heavy weights.

Note by Marcus300: "Priming opens the growth window and creates a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow at a very fast rate, i can not express enough how important this process is, this will enhance any cycle and hugh gains can be produce and maintained by this simple process of priming (carb cycling), just to note when priming dont be hard on the body and try and force the environment a slow steady carb cycling so the body doesn't react in starvation mode is what is needed, 3-5 days low carb to 1 day high carbs is a general rule.

"When the priming is done your body is ready to direct everything into the muscle cells, because of the priming the cells on the muscles are very excitable and everything is directed into the muscle cells instead of fat cells, so if you incorporate the priming so it ends when a cycle starts and the intense training everything is directed into growth of muscle tissue and the growth spurt starts, in nature growth occurs in spurts and we are no different babies and teenagers all grow in spurts we cant carry on growing for a long period of time our bodies just dont work like that no matter what we put into them, so take advantage of the window and start a cycle when priming ends, because of the spurt only last for a few wks a short cycle fits nicely into it but longer cycle can be used it depends on the individual and how good he responds to AAS, i normally only grow for the first half of cycles so short cycling works great for me,

"The cycle needs to be designed around some form of cycle history and use what works best for you, looking over the cycle history will tell you which compounds work and which ones your body responds well to with little sides, design a cycle with this in mind."

How should you prime?

Priming involves the correct dietary and training techniques that get you to drop fat but no muscle. Basically, you diet down slow enough to simply lose some fat - no muscle should be lost. The training should not be so intense that you risk overtraining; in fact, a general maintenance routine would be best in most cases. The diet should allow your body to become sensitive to carbohydrates and other macronutrients. Generally, a cyclic ketogenic diet (CKD) works wonders - staying low carb for 3-4 days maximum, then carbing up. Again, the goal is to lean up but preserve current LBM.

Here is an example split that I have used for successful priming:

Day 1: Moderate Carb/Cardio
Day 2: Low Carb/Upperbody Supersets
Day 3: Low Carb/Lowerbody Supersets
Day 4: Low Carb/Cardio
Day 5: Low Carb/Full Body Workout (begin carb load after evening training)
Day 6: Carb Load/No training
Day 7: Moderate Carb/Power Training (Squat/Deads/Bench)
Repeat

How much cardio you do and how low you take your calories, is determined by your LBM and what you have learned about your metabolism and personal limitations.

The last 4-5 days before the cycle starts should be low carb. On the day you carb up - you should begin the cycle. Testosterone and most of it's popular deriatives will make this carb load very effective - and glycogen supercompensation should occur very quickly... especially if you use short esters or frontload longer esters - to get blood levels up quickly. After this point your body will remain very responsive to the cycle and you should begin training hard - drop sets, rest-pause... go intense! You should feel ready for it. As always - keep a training log to maximize the growth window.

Here are the results of a priming period I did (based on the 7-day CKD example):
Starting weight: 248.2 Target weight: 225.0

Week 1: Depleted to: 237.0 Loaded to: 244.8
Week 2: Depleted to: 235.5 Loaded to: 243.2
Week 3: Depleted to: 234.8 Loaded to: 242.1
Week 4: Depleted to: 233.4 Loaded to: 244.0 (salty carb load - wife made a big pot of soup! )
Week 5: Depleted to: 231.8 Loaded to: 239.2
Week 6: Depleted to: 229.6 Loaded to: 241.0
Week 7: Depleted to: 229.2 Loaded to: 240.5
Week 8: Depleted to: 227.9 Loaded to: 240.0
Week 9: Depleted to: 226.6 Loaded to: 237.2
Week 10: a slow ride down to 225. Once I hit that, I consider the prime over and the window wide open. Physcially: strength has improved or sustained. Mentally: I am ready to move some heavy weights again - and ditch some of this damn cardio

NOTE: Carb Loading - if you haven't ran a CKD before, remember that you need to deplete glycogen during the week so you can get the proper response from the carb loads. Be carefull of total calorie intake - if you go low carb, but eat too much - this will effect the depletion phase. During the carb load, stick to protein and carb food sources... if you have a craving to curb that is also high in fat, the best time to indulge is within the first several hours of the carb load - studies show fat gain during this time is very low... the body is more interested in replenishing itself than it is in storing fat. As you advance through the carb load - high fat food are more likely to be stored.

How long should the priming period last?

Proper priming should last about 6-8 weeks precycle. If done correctly and long enough, your body will be very responsive - you should feel physically pent up and ready from the priming period - you should be mentally and physically prepared to move some heavy weights and put in 100% effort in the gym.

Are any ancillary drugs helpful for priming?

I have found Proviron and (drum roll) Bromocriptine to be helpful. Proviron helps to support natural testosterone levels during a calorie restricted diet; bromocriptine helps support proper metabolism and hormone levels to trick your body from trying to put a stopper on fat loss. An important word on Bromo: taper up and only take it in the mornings to avoid uncomfortable side effects. Exogenous insulin can help carb loads - I feel filled out quicker and stronger the day after...

By Marcus300: "Growth Hormone is of great benefit, it should be run at a low-dose during priming, and when the cycle starts and the intense training the dose of GH should be high for that individual, all these growth factors all work together in producing new muscle tissue gains, ive done my own personal studies with GH and priming and different ways of cycling and the GH is of great benefit in pushing new boundaries of growth while the growth spurt is open.

"GH is a wonderful and remarkable hormone, its basically a lipolytic it burns fat while supporting the immune system and prevents bone loss and supports the retention of lean body mass, it other words in time it makes you big and ripped and transforms your physic,when you start GH therapy it causes a shift in the metabolism where the body tries to burn alot more fatty acids than glucose, this benefit is sometimes mild but over time strips the fat away from the muscle, now for the other effect GH as on the body it increases amino acid uptake by muscles and can build lean muscle tissue, so what happens especially if your a bodybuilder and training and eating like one is you start to increase in lean body mass even more so if AAS are implement aswell so an increase in LBM which in turn changes the rate of body fat is burnt due to the LBM increasing, so in time major changes in the bodys compostion are notice even with no alteration on the diet, so just think if the right cycle and diet was done with GH the body changes put all this with the priming and designed cycle and you have everything you need to achieve your goals

"Now the dose what is need to transform the body is something ive discovered over the years, this is were i went wrong for years using too little of amount of GH, all i used to recieve was fat loss and slight condition, A former Mr O's camp at the time said i was doing it all wrong and they showed me and made me understand what i needed to do to change my body totally, nowadays ive found what works 100% for me, its a good solid prime and create the anabolic window for muscle then i start a short cycle weather heavy/light or modertae put this together with a very intense training program and diet and incorporate GH at a muscle building dose and the body changes very quickly,

"Sides with GH are bad if your a sufferer, carpel tunnel syndrome is murder but at least you know the GH you are taking is real, what i found is to run a maintenance dose of gh during the prime and slowly build the dose up and when you stop the prime and start the cycle and hit the food,training and AAS increase the GH its not as bad if you run it for a few wks before and steadily up the dose for the start of cycle."

Are any non-pharmaceutical ancillaries helpful for priming?

A multi vitamin/mineral is always good practice while on a macro-restrive diet... to help fill nutritional holes. Extra Vitamin C can also help deter flu symptoms and keep you from falling ill during an important training cycle... I will usually take somewhere between 4-8 grams of vitamin C per day to support a healthy immune system during any important training cycle. Getting sick can mess everything up...

Taking a healthy dose of the essential BCAA's helps to deter overtraining and keep you from losing muscle during dieting - or possibly remain progressive in your strength training. Studies show that it's harder to overtrain while taking in >10 grams of the essential BCAA's daily. I find 10 grams preworkout has a substantial effect on strength retention/gains and mental focus while on a CKD primer.

When you stay low-carb your body starts to produce less of the digestive enzymes responsible for carbohydrate metabolism - this can cause bad gas when carb loading. In particular, a low carb phase results in less production of the enzyme Amylase. To help this, you could take digestive enzymes to aid proper digestion.

The great Charles Poliquin has been quoted to suggort the idea of high-dose glutamine as a post workout sugar replacement for those needing to drop some bodyfat. The idea of mega dosing glutamine is debatable... but I have used it with success. Usually during the depletion week - my post workout shake is one banana and about 30-40 grams of glutamine.

Caffeine and other thermogenics are an absolute help when CKD priming. They keep you moving when after a few days on low carb and they help depress appetite. During the carb loads, they can also help keep you from feeling tired from all the incoming starches and sugars; however I usually use the carb load day as a detox from caffeine-containing sups and drinks.

[Calyptus]

1 of november

2 weeks of 10mg halo/25mg clen to shed some fat and work on muscle endurance.

Winter cycle

6 weeks of 80mg var

[Amorphic]

great post merc.

[BG]

Ive ran all different kinds, high dosages, few compounds, lots of compounds long /short. I just tried a high dosage cycle and it backfired soooo bad, life got hard so with high dosages made it worst, I actually had to be medicated to calm down. You guys, honestly, dont need to rum much AS to get what you want, be true to you diet, be true to you trsining and espescially to yourself and with time it will come. thers no fast way, dont get me wrong, you can blow up, but let me see you hold it natty for a year. Dont put the un-needed stress on your body for the few extra lbs that two months later because something happened in life or you let your diet go you lost it anyway. Cycle smart, diet /train hard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lightwaytbaby]

the best cycle ever!

1-10 prop 100mg ed
1-8 tren 100mg ed
1-8 mast 75 mg ed
6-10 winny inject 100mg ed
1-4 / 8-12 igf 80-100mcg ed

reaL basic pct...

[Amorphic]

prop tren and mast is a combination i'm dying to try once i get into cutting time.

[lightwaytbaby]

its some serious shit...take it easy...my liver would hurt ...lol jk

[Amorphic]

Ive ran all different kinds, high dosages, few compounds, lots of compounds long /short. I just tried a high dosage cycle and it backfired soooo bad, life got hard so with high dosages made it worst, I actually had to be medicated to calm down. You guys, honestly, dont need to rum much AS to get what you want, be true to you diet, be true to you trsining and espescially to yourself and with time it will come. thers no fast way, dont get me wrong, you can blow up, but let me see you hold it natty for a year. Dont put the un-needed stress on your body for the few extra lbs that two months later because something happened in life or you let your diet go you lost it anyway. Cycle smart, diet /train hard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

amen to that

[Merc..]

Ive ran all different kinds, high dosages, few compounds, lots of compounds long /short. I just tried a high dosage cycle and it backfired soooo bad, life got hard so with high dosages made it worst, I actually had to be medicated to calm down. You guys, honestly, dont need to rum much AS to get what you want, be true to you diet, be true to you trsining and espescially to yourself and with time it will come. thers no fast way, dont get me wrong, you can blow up, but let me see you hold it natty for a year. Dont put the un-needed stress on your body for the few extra lbs that two months later because something happened in life or you let your diet go you lost it anyway. Cycle smart, diet /train hard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree ...

If you can gain on lower doses with less sides why bump up to "extremely high" doses..



Merc.

[mario_ps2]

been priming for about 8 weeks now so im gonna blast myself with a short mid-high dosed bulking cycle..... about 4-6 weeks of the following:

test prop 1000-1200mgs/week
NPP 800-1000mgs/week
d-bol 60-70mgs/day
a-dex .5mgs/day
nolva 20-40mgs/day
HCG 1000ius/week (two shots)

PCT: i might consider using Hookers PCT, even tho i have argued against it before many times... i have been doin extensive research on it and it sounds plausable on paper, and ive also heard some good things from members experiences.... but thats still in the air right now.... if not Hookers PCT then aromasin, nolva, and clomid

I like the way you approach your cycles, short and heavy... I've been reading that it take a lot less hitting on all our lipids, regular test recovery, and liver enzymes.

Short and heavy cycles don't toll the system as heavy as long cycles do according to what I have read.

[dhriscerr]

I see a lot of people using proviron in PCT but not many using it in cycles, anyone have a lot of experience with it in a cycle? What dosage and time did you run it? Anyone use it for cycle and PCT? I'm starting to look into the possibility of throwing it into one of my cycles

[hugovsilva]

I do. But I do not count it as an anabolic agent. Run it to avoid sides and block shbg. Ran it this year for pct and went smooth.

Usually I do 50mged, for all cycle duration + 4 weeks in pct.

[J-41-sd]

I primed for my current cycle for about 5 weeks, I got my bf under 9% and I am currently running:
100mg prop ed
100mg mast eod
50mg var ed
.5mg a-dex ed
I know that the prime has helped already and I am only a few weeks in, my bf% is 7 on the high end and the real key is the fact that my diet is great and I do cardio to stay lean but not so much that it inhibits gains. I am harder, more dense, have greater separation and I am more ripped than I have ever been, I will only gain 10-12lbs on this cycle at most but the strength gains are solid and the weight gain is going to be easier to maintain post-cycle, I highly recommend priming as I myself will always prime from here on out.

[Swifto]

Just wondering why you were throwing in Winstrol in your bulker? Just to clean it up a bit after or any other reason? Possibly to solidify your gains?

Never used it. Its a reportedly a good lean bulker on some, so it fits nicely in there.

[Swifto]

I see a lot of people using proviron in PCT but not many using it in cycles, anyone have a lot of experience with it in a cycle? What dosage and time did you run it? Anyone use it for cycle and PCT? I'm starting to look into the possibility of throwing it into one of my cycles

My experience with it as an estrogen reducer, were that I found it was extremely weak. It did hardly anything for bloat and estrogen related effects, even at 50-75mg/ED.

Use a proper AI IMHO.

[dhriscerr]

My experience with it as an estrogen reducer, were that I found it was extremely weak. It did hardly anything for bloat and estrogen related effects, even at 50-75mg/ED.

Use a proper AI IMHO.

Ofcourse I would still run Aromasin , HCG and Nolva as well, I just read that it free's up test in a cycle as well as lowering sghb. Saw a few post of people using it in cycles and some in PCT, I don't know if using it in PCT would be great for me though, kinda use my sex drive as a semi indicator of when im getting back to normal.

[moush]

just started my Test E @ 500mg/wk for 13-14 weeksyesterday with a clean lean bulk...hoping to put on 10-15 lbs (if i see im puttin on way too much fat i will run T3 during cycle

[Crest]

week 1 - 10, 750mg week, sustanon
week 1 - 8, 50mg per day, tbol

pct nolva + clomid

want to gain and hold 15 pounds

[Merc..]

Thanks for all the post ..


Bump for more ??

Whats your cycle ??

Please weigh in if you haven't posted yet..


Merc.

[BigJames]

I started a winter bulk up cycle in mid-Sept. This is my second cycle, so I did not go overboard....also, I frontloaded both compounds (double doses) for the first week:

1-13: Test E 600mg/wk
1-12: Eq 400mg/wk

I have nolva on hand in case of gyno and has used it since week 3 as they got a little sensitive and I was worried. PCT will be nolva at 20mg ED and trib at 3g ED for 6 weeks. It works well for me.

I just started week 7 this week and I have gained 11 pounds since starting. The pumps are crazy and my strength jumped up ridiculously this week - my bench is up 30 pounds today! I am eating like crazy and getting about 220-260 grams of protein a day. My bodyweight has gone from 225 to 236 in the last 6 weeks.

My goal is to gain 20 pounds and hold 15 or so after all is said and done. Should be doable considering both these compounds are really kicking in the last two weeks or so (taking the frontload into account).

[PEWN]

1-6 weeks 100mg prop ed
1-14 weeks 875mg test e every week
1-12 weeks 700mg deca every week
1-4 weeks 50mg dbol

Anthony Roberts PCT.....



edited..... thanks moooo moooo..... it was a typo...

[house71]

WKS
1-10 EQ 400mgs A WEEK
1-5 100mgs PROP EOD
5-10 SUST 500mgs A WEEK
10-15 100mgs prop eod
10-15 50mgs winny eod

LETRO EOD
PCT

[RA]

No prob pewn...

[10nispro]

1st cycle ever
Test e.
Week 1-1000mg(frontload)
Weeks 2-8--500mg/wk

Had a touch of test flu after 1st two injections, none since. Have 4 weeks left. Strength great(primary goal), wght gain of 10lbs and holding steady. My diet is probably 60% pro, 25%carb, 15% fat.

Pct will be aromasin and nolva.

[asianhulk_83]

My cycle just started on sat are
500mg test cyp (250mg twice a week)
300 deca (once a week)
Dbol 20mg (split 10mg twice a day/ed)

going to run test and deca for 10 weeks and dbol for 4

Letro EOD
PCT

This is my first cycle and I had some help from one of my good buddies who's a top level npc bodybuilder as thats my goal also. Also, afters tons of research and stuff like I decided on doing a cycle.

[PEWN]

Product Week 1 Week 2 Week 3 Week 4 Week 5 Week 6 Week 7 Week 8
Deca 200 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
D-anabol 25 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
Tren 75 Y Y Y Y
Winn-50 Y Y Y Y
Var 10 Y Y Y Y
Clen Y Y Y Y