You guys set me straight

**XLCanadian** · 01-08-2008, 03:41 PM

Okay so I got set straight after suggesting a d-bol/winny cycle. So I have taken what was said in stride and am going to ask another question.

How would I cycle the Test-E for the recommended 10 - 12 weeks @ 500 mg per week?

Injection frequency, etc?

Also could I add in the Winny for the last 4-6 weeks? Or does Winny need a longer cycle. (My Previous cycle was with Winny and it was with good results)

My stats are: 6' 1" 212lbs, 26years old. I have run one 10 weeker of Winny and Clen last year. And I ran some of the 1-AD/M-1T Bullsh*t about 4 years ago.

Would the Winny really augment the Test-E.

What kind of PCT should I run. My "source" is very knowledgeable, but we all know they really don't care what you take as long as they get paid. So hopefully you guys can help.

**Njord** · 01-08-2008, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by XLCanadian

Okay so I got set straight after suggesting a d-bol/winny cycle. So I have taken what was said in stride and am going to ask another question.

How would I cycle the Test-E for the recommended 10 - 12 weeks @ 500 mg per week?

Injection frequency, etc?

Also could I add in the Winny for the last 4-6 weeks? Or does Winny need a longer cycle. (My Previous cycle was with Winny and it was with good results)

My stats are: 6' 1" 212lbs, 26years old. I have run one 10 weeker of Winny and Clen last year. And I ran some of the 1-AD/M-1T Bullsh*t about 4 years ago.

Would the Winny really augment the Test-E.

What kind of PCT should I run. My "source" is very knowledgeable, but we all know they really don't care what you take as long as they get paid. So hopefully you guys can help.

My suggestion would be:

1-12 Test E 500mg/week (injections 2x a week)
9-14 Winny 50mg/ed

14-17 Pct (your going to have to a little research to come up with your own)

**canadianjuice** · 01-08-2008, 04:23 PM

cycle looks decent what kind of pct i have letro for pct but not sure how thats run

**Ncogneato** · 01-08-2008, 04:23 PM

^^^That's good advise.
The winny will sorta harden you up and help solidify your gains at the end of your cycle.

**Big** · 01-08-2008, 04:56 PM

nolva and clomid for pct would be one option

**XLCanadian** · 01-09-2008, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ima******ger

nolva and clomid for pct would be one option

Talked with my "friend" last night. He says that Sustanon 250 would mean I only have to inject once per week, instead of 2 times with Test E.

Here's what I'm looking at:

Week 1-8: 500mg per week of Sust.
Week 9-10: 500mg per week of Sust. 75mg/day of Winny.
Week 11-12: 75mg/day of Winny.

How soon after I stop the Sust should I run my PCT. My "friend" is saying HCG and Clomid. Will that be enough. How often should I run the two? I believe he said 50mg of Clomid per day. But thats all the info I have so far.

I don't want to start until I have it all planned thoroughly.

**nowdenlid** · 01-09-2008, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by XLCanadian

Talked with my "friend" last night. He says that Sustanon 250 would mean I only have to inject once per week, instead of 2 times with Test E.

Here's what I'm looking at:

Week 1-8: 500mg per week of Sust.
Week 9-10: 500mg per week of Sust. 75mg/day of Winny.
Week 11-12: 75mg/day of Winny.

How soon after I stop the Sust should I run my PCT. My "friend" is saying HCG and Clomid. Will that be enough. How often should I run the two? I believe he said 50mg of Clomid per day. But thats all the info I have so far.

I don't want to start until I have it all planned thoroughly.

dont listen to your freind bro

sustonon has be injected eod thats 4 shots per week @ 125 mgs a shot ,thats how i do it .suss has 4 different esters of test in it so you have to keep them esters at a stedy and level if not sides will be caused ,and as for starting pct it should be 14-16 days after last shot of suss and clomid and nolva will be fine no need for hcg with a simple cycle like yours.....DONT LISTEN TO YOUR FREIND

and you say you would have too only inject suss once per week theat would be 250mgs every week and in your cycle plan you say weeks 1-8 500mgs every week thats 2ml per week = 2 shots

**darr** · 01-09-2008, 07:31 AM

IMO pct nova,clomid,hcg !thats my 2 cents!

**XLCanadian** · 01-09-2008, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by nowdenlid

dont listen to your freind bro

sustonon has be injected eod thats 4 shots per week @ 125 mgs a shot ,thats how i do it .suss has 4 different esters of test in it so you have to keep them esters at a stedy and level if not sides will be caused ,and as for starting pct it should be 14-16 days after last shot of suss and clomid and nolva will be fine no need for hcg with a simple cycle like yours.....DONT LISTEN TO YOUR FREIND

and you say you would have too only inject suss once per week theat would be 250mgs every week and in your cycle plan you say weeks 1-8 500mgs every week thats 2ml per week = 2 shots

Why not just one shot @ 2mls (500mg)/ week?

Also,

What is the difference between Nolva, Clomid, and HCG?

**nowdenlid** · 01-09-2008, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by XLCanadian

Why not just one shot @ 2mls (500mg)/ week?

Also,

What is the difference between Nolva, Clomid, and HCG?

well if you inject 2ml=500mgs of suss the 2 fast acting esters in the suss will start too die out after around 2 days so your bloods will become unstable ,then you go and inject more of those fast acting esters in your next shot and guess wgat more unstable bloods but if you keep them at a stedy pace this is far better for gains and you get way less sides .

trust me bro i am talking for personal experience.

as for the pct stuff go and look at the profiles on them and that will tell you all you need to know.

btw forget the hcg ,i would only use it if your balls become very small while on cycle ,stick with nolva and clomid for pct and nolva if any gyno starts while on cycle ...

**The Deuce** · 01-09-2008, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by nowdenlid

btw forget the hcg ,i would only use it if your balls become very small while on cycle ,stick with nolva and clomid for pct and nolva if any gyno starts while on cycle ...

Ehh everytime I use AAS my balls shrivel up to raisins and i used clomid once.. and only once... never again... it made too emotional and well to be honest the uhh ummm release after having some much need sex made such a mess.. holy wow... yah that was ridiculous.

What I am trying to say is I wouldnt ever recommend clomid to anyone for the simple fact you don't need it. Nolva/Hcg /Exemestane is perfect and works everytime... with "pretty" much any and every cycle.. obviously when different compounds are used you must adjust accordingly.

**nowdenlid** · 01-09-2008, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by The Deuce

Ehh everytime I use AAS my balls shrivel up to raisins and i used clomid once.. and only once... never again... it made too emotional and well to be honest the uhh ummm release after having some much need sex made such a mess.. holy wow... yah that was ridiculous.

What I am trying to say is I wouldnt ever recommend clomid to anyone for the simple fact you don't need it. Nolva/Hcg/Exemestane is perfect and works everytime... with "pretty" much any and every cycle.. obviously when different compounds are used you must adjust accordingly.

i have used clomid a couple of time with no probs at all,everyone f different so i guess its tril and error

**The Deuce** · 01-09-2008, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by nowdenlid

i have used clomid a couple of time with no probs at all,everyone f different so i guess its tril and error

Yah exactly .. thats exactly what it is. Everyone is different and unique bro...

**Njord** · 01-09-2008, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by XLCanadian

Talked with my "friend" last night. He says that Sustanon 250 would mean I only have to inject once per week, instead of 2 times with Test E.

Here's what I'm looking at:

Week 1-8: 500mg per week of Sust.
Week 9-10: 500mg per week of Sust. 75mg/day of Winny.
Week 11-12: 75mg/day of Winny.

How soon after I stop the Sust should I run my PCT. My "friend" is saying HCG and Clomid. Will that be enough. How often should I run the two? I believe he said 50mg of Clomid per day. But thats all the info I have so far.

I don't want to start until I have it all planned thoroughly.

After reading this post it is clear to me that your friend don't know what the hell he is talking about. Both in regards to proper AAS use and proper pct.
You need to do a little more research, we can't really spoon feed you everything. Go read up in the pct forum.
And believe me, sust need to be shot eod to take full advantage of the short esters in it and to keep your blood plasma levels steady to decrese the chances of bad side effects. You could probably get away with 2x week, but if your going to do that go with Test E or C.

**longhorn814** · 01-09-2008, 08:58 AM

run HCG during cycle, not for PCT..for PCT you want to run a SERM (nolva, clomid) and an AI (I recommend Aromasin )

**XLCanadian** · 01-09-2008, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Njord

After reading this post it is clear to me that your friend don't know what the hell he is talking about. Both in regards to proper AAS use and proper pct.
You need to do a little more research, we can't really spoon feed you everything. Go read up in the pct forum.
And believe me, sust need to be shot eod to take full advantage of the short esters in it and to keep your blood plasma levels steady to decrese the chances of bad side effects. You could probably get away with 2x week, but if your going to do that go with Test E or C.

So, you guys are saying...

Weeks 1-8: 0.5 ml (125mg) of Sust EOD. + Nolva.
Weeks 9-10: 0.5ml (125mg) of SUST EOD. + Nolva. + 75mg of Winstrol ED.
Weeks 10-12: 75mg of Winny ED + Nolva.
Weeks 12-14: 50 mg Clomid.

What dose of Nolva? 50mg ED? Anything else? Wow this is starting to look expensive!!!

**Renesis** · 01-09-2008, 09:33 AM

What? You don't need the nolva during your cycle, that is for after.

**longhorn814** · 01-09-2008, 09:36 AM

ok everybody parrots that you need to shoot sust eod, but there are plenty of people that shoot it twice a week and dont have any problems..Ive never run it and probably never will, but its really up to you..no need to take nolva during your cycle..keep it on hand in case of gyno, but just use 20mg/day during PCT along with 100mg clomid if you want..personally I would suggest 20mg nolve and 25 mg aromasin for PCT

**XLCanadian** · 01-09-2008, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by longhorn814

ok everybody parrots that you need to shoot sust eod, but there are plenty of people that shoot it twice a week and dont have any problems..Ive never run it and probably never will, but its really up to you..no need to take nolva during your cycle..keep it on hand in case of gyno, but just use 20mg/day during PCT along with 100mg clomid if you want..personally I would suggest 20mg nolve and 25 mg aromasin for PCT

Whats wrong with Sust?

The reason I would pick that is you get less bloat than from the Test E. At least thats what I have found while researching. This is due to the fact that its main ingredient is Test P.

So don't run the Nolva unless I start getting the itchy, sensitive nipples. Cool.

I was reading a post today on a PCT to counteract Gyno. Starts with an L. Can't remember the name. But it doesn't seem to be available up here.

So I guess do the above mentioned cycle, without the Nolva (unless needed), and then start the Nolva (20mg/day) and Clomid (100mg/day) how long after my last Sust injection? Or do I wait until well after the Winny as well?

**nowdenlid** · 01-09-2008, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by XLCanadian

Whats wrong with Sust?

The reason I would pick that is you get less bloat than from the Test E. At least thats what I have found while researching. This is due to the fact that its main ingredient is Test P.

So don't run the Nolva unless I start getting the itchy, sensitive nipples. Cool.

I was reading a post today on a PCT to counteract Gyno. Starts with an L. Can't remember the name. But it doesn't seem to be available up here.

So I guess do the above mentioned cycle, without the Nolva (unless needed), and then start the Nolva (20mg/day) and Clomid (100mg/day) how long after my last Sust injection? Or do I wait until well after the Winny as well?

there is only 30mgsd of test p per 250mgs of sustonon so test p is not the main ester is sustonon test p is the ester with the least mg in sustonon

**longhorn814** · 01-09-2008, 11:13 AM

the reason i dont like sust is b/c its a blend of 4 different esters of test which can cause you blood levels to get all outta whack and cause more sides..oh and Ive seen plenty of people bloat like crazy on sust too..afterall test is test and that deconate ester stays around for a long time and will cause bloat..there was even an article in the latest MD mag talking about how they dont like sust for those and other reasons..

**mx3** · 01-09-2008, 11:13 AM

If your gonna run sus it needs to be shot eod. I can tell you from experience that sides will be far worse shooting it 2x wk than eod period. Go with the test e/c. I have tried all forms of test and imo test e/c gives the same amount of bloat as sus. everybodys different but it really wont be that big a deal. run the test for twelve wks. run the winstrol for six wks and I would advise starting at 50mg ed to see how your joints do. pct nolva 40-20mg ed, clomid 100mg ed as stated above and I personally would throw in some aromasin . run pct for 4-6 wks.
breakdown:
wk 1-12 test 500mg wk
wk 8-14 winni 50-75mg ed
wk 14-18 pct: nolva/clomid/aromasin
if you need more info, look up anthony roberts pct, or use the search button for cycles.

**XLCanadian** · 01-09-2008, 12:31 PM

okay so the decision comes down to Test C or E. My buddies have used E and most loved it. One guy used both and didn't like the C. Since this is where my gear is coming from I had better go with the majority rules approach.

So I run:

Week 1-12: Test-E (500mg per week) 2x250mg. I figure Sundays and Wednesdays.
Week 8-14: Winny 50-75mg ED.
Week 14-18: PCT: 100mg Clomid and 20-40mg Nolva ED.

I will also keep HCG on hand just in case. Also, do I start PCT during my last week of Winny?

Now is there any benefit other than $$$ to running the same cycle this way?--->

Week 1-10: Test -E (same dosages as above)
Week 8-12: Winny (Same dosages as above)
Week 12-16: PCT: (Same as above)

I know I can buy less of everything, but am I gonna really lose out on that much with 2 weeks less of both Test and Winny?

Also, would I fare better with 3 shots per week of Test-E or is 2 okay?

Sorry guys. Don't want to be spoon fed. But my source is a pretty immune individual and seems to be able to do whatever with no ill effects. Whereas I would rather do my research.

I have read ANABOLICS 2007 cover to cover. I just figure your Wisdom and first hand experiences are better than a gear "source" or a book.

****Aromasin is not available. Should I just not bother if I can't get it?******

**Njord** · 01-09-2008, 01:47 PM

Only you can tell if 10 weeks is enough for you. However the cost of two extra weeks of test shouldn't be the deciding factor here. Wouldn't you hate to be gaining like crazy at week 10 and not have enough to run it. Test E is a slow ester, a lot of people don't really start seeing gains until week 6 or 7.

**longhorn814** · 01-09-2008, 02:25 PM

go with 12 weeks for test..you'll be glad that you did..start your PCT 24 hours after your last dose of winny, which should also be 14 days after your last shot of test

**XLCanadian** · 01-09-2008, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by longhorn814

go with 12 weeks for test..you'll be glad that you did..start your PCT 24 hours after your last dose of winny, which should also be 14 days after your last shot of test

And the PCT would be 20 - 40 mg of Nolva + 100mg of Clomid ED?

Would Tribulus be a good idea as well? Also, I have no access to Aromasin .

**Njord** · 01-09-2008, 04:28 PM

Nolva and clomid should be good enough for your cycle. If you get any side effect from the clomid (and you are aware of those right?), you might drop it down to 50mg. You can also keep the nolva at 20mg. SO to recap:

Week 1 100mg clomid 20mg Nolva
Week 2-4 50mg clomid 20mg Nolva

**XLCanadian** · 01-10-2008, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Njord

Nolva and clomid should be good enough for your cycle. If you get any side effect from the clomid (and you are aware of those right?), you might drop it down to 50mg. You can also keep the nolva at 20mg. SO to recap:

Week 1 100mg clomid 20mg Nolva
Week 2-4 50mg clomid 20mg Nolva

Ran Clomid before @ 50mg/day with no ill effects (yes I am aware).

Talked to my buddy and he is very experienced with the gear in question.

He says the sust 250 is comprised of 4 different tests, which are all time released on different schedules. The prop being a 2-day and the rest being longer. He is saying from "experience" that If I run 500mg's /week shooting it once per week that there will be an overlap in release times for the remaining tests.

He's telling my to stick to the Sust so I don't water up as much as I will with Test-E and C. This works for me as I would rather not bloat too much.

Some guys on here seem to think the Sust 250 requires more than one shot per week, some say EOD. But my guy says they probably mean Sust 100, which is comprised of only 3 different tests.

The cycle looks like this.

Weeks 1-10: Sustanon 250 @500mg/week, once per week.
Weeks 7-12: Winstrol @ 50-75mg ED.
Weeks 13: Clomid @ 100mg ED and Nolva @ 20 - 40 mg ED
Week 14-15: Clomid @ 50mg ED and Nolva @ 20mg ED

I blew up on Winny the last time I ran it only with Clen , so he says this should suit me fine. He used to compete, and ran heavy cycles for years.

Says this will allow me to only inject once per week, which I like. He also mentioned the half life of the Sust 250 is 2 - 3 weeks, and doesn't know why someone would run it 2 or more times per week if they are doing the above mentioned stack.

Any input guys?

**nowdenlid** · 01-11-2008, 05:44 AM

suss at 500mgs ew is fine but be carefull with the one shot per week as i have done it and got very bad cistic acne and man they are painfull

**exodito** · 01-11-2008, 07:12 AM

Due to the fact that you are still no sure of what to go with, I would suggest going with the test e and no offense but your "friend" has no idea what he is talking about.
Also remember that where all react different to certain things, so always take precautions.

**XLCanadian** · 01-11-2008, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by nowdenlid

suss at 500mgs ew is fine but be carefull with the one shot per week as i have done it and got very bad cistic acne and man they are painfull

Have you shot it 2 times per week?? Reaction??

**XLCanadian** · 01-11-2008, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by exodito

Due to the fact that you are still no sure of what to go with, I would suggest going with the test e and no offense but your "friend" has no idea what he is talking about.
Also remember that where all react different to certain things, so always take precautions.

I hear you on the Test-E, but he says the sust wil bloat me less. And to be honest, there are reasons why I don't want to blow up like a baloon.

No offence taken either. Just this guy has been using and moving this gear for 15 years. Is there really any advantage to the test-E over the sust 250?

**exodito** · 01-11-2008, 09:12 PM

I'm kind of new to all of this but yea most people will agree that sus tends to retain less water (if taken correctly).

This is a bit of topic but is it true that sus shots tend to be more painful?

**XLCanadian** · 01-15-2008, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by exodito

I'm kind of new to all of this but yea most people will agree that sus tends to retain less water (if taken correctly).

This is a bit of topic but is it true that sus shots tend to be more painful?

Yeah. Just talked to my buddy today. He says he is on the sust and its like having a tennis ball stuck in the injection site. So I guess Test-E is the safer choice.