Upcoming cycle advice

[Hudson]

Stats:

Male
32 years old
5'10"
168 lbs
BF approx 15%

Exp

Started lifting when I was around 15 and stopped when I was about 20, started again about 3 years ago. It's been a bit of an up and down struggle the last couple of years, i'd start training around march make some decent gains but then because of a medical problem (nothing serious, a nasal problem that took a while for my doc to diagnose which meant i'd always pick up bugs which lingered for months) i'd lose most of the gains and have to start again the following year.

Goals

Long term - Add around 20lbs of muscle and get my bf below 10%. I've no plans on getting huge. I think at 5'10" a lean 190lbs would be my ideal weight.

Short term - By the summer i'd like to get my bf down to 10% and ideally add 5-10 lbs

I've just started this years training a month ago, I'm doing a split routine 3 times a week at the moment and 3 cardio's a week on the days i don't lift.

So I figure why not try getting a kick start and speed up the process.

Going from all that I figure Anavar or maybe Tbol would be my best bet. Now I know a lot of guys don't like oral cycles but there's a couple of reasons for me not choosing an injection cycle. I don't think my body/experience is ready for such a strong cycle. I don't want to gain a lot of weight, I'm more interested in just adding some good solid muscle and reducing my bf.

Let me know what you think guys and thanks in advance for your input.

[*mark*]

you could do an injectible cycle no prob youre first time around as long as you did something along the lines of test (e or c so you only inject once or twice a week) for 10 weeks, and an oral for the first 4 or 5 weeks.

If you only want to do orals, i would suggest d-bol and winny each at 50 mg/ed for 6 weeks. The d-bol will give you the size and strength, and the winny will help you cut up. Once the bloating from the d-bol went down(after the first week off) you should be looking pretty good. Oh yeah make sure you research and do a proper pct, and youre gonna want a liver support to take through the duration of the cycle.

[Hudson]

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the advice, good to know that you think i'd be ready for an injectable cycle but for my first cycle I don't like the idea of stacking, I'd sooner take one thing at a time and make sure I don't get any bad sides. So that limits me a lot when i wanna cut up for the summer rather than add a lot of mass. Assuming everything goes well in my first cycle i'd prefer to go down the test route in the winter. That sound reasonable? Yeah I've looked into PCT a little but need to do more when i've heard some more views and settled on which cycle i'm doing. As for the liver support, i've seen a lot of people mention milk thistle but i've also read some stuff saying it may not be that good, what other products are there that are easily available? what would you recommend and in what doses?

[Big]

I'm not big on oral only cycles, but if I were to do one it would definitely be var and tbol.

[Baba]

Well your plan are very realistic. Why not start with test only cycle first and see how that goes.

[Hudson]

Hey Baba, I don't like the idea of a test cycle now coz I wanna be solid for the summer, don't wanna put on 20-30lbs and then have to spend another couple of months cutting up.

Hey Big, are you saying you'd stack the var and tbol? Like I said i'm not sure about stacking for my first cycle, but as they both seem to be lower risk orals it's something to think about. But if I did i'd sooner introduce them a couple of weeks apart so I could differenciate between them if I got any sides. What do you think about that and how would you recommend doing it? Would you prefer to start with the var and add the tbol a couple weeks later or the other way around? And would you keep them both at the normail doses or lower them both a little as i'm stacking on my first cycle?

Thanks guys

[samcam]

"getting huge" has to do with diet. Try going for some lean gains with 400-500mg Test E or C shot 2x/week for 10-12 weeks. Keep up the cardio and SLOWLY increase calories over the duration of your cycle so you don't 'blow-up' all at once, just a suggestion.

[Hudson]

Hmmm interesting samcam, thats given me something to think about. I'd always thought of test as a bulking steroid . Wouldn't it be a pain in the ass having to fight the increased appetite to stay lean tho?

[samcam]

Hmmm interesting samcam, thats given me something to think about. I'd always thought of test as a bulking steroid. Wouldn't it be a pain in the ass having to fight the increased appetite to stay lean tho?

Personally I don't necessarily get an increased appetite from test only, I always force feed myself and eat at specific times and there is really no "bulking" or "cutting" steroid , bulking or cutting comes down to diet.

[*mark*]

if you are trying not to spend a whole lot of money, i would stay away from anavar , it is one of the highest priced orals out there, t-bol is good, if you only want to do one steroid because it gives you a descent amount of strength and size, with lean gains, and minimal bloating. the results from t-bol have been considered by some to be a cross between d-bol and either winny or anavar. The only bad thing about t-bol is that it takes a little longer to kick in than other orals. If you do it, you definately wanna do six weeks. Im not too sure about the dosage, but to the best of my knowledge, 40 mg/ed should do you some good.

To answer some other questions:

yes, test can be used for lean gains, as said earlier, it depends on your diet if you eat a ton, you arent gonna look to ripped, but test does have some fat burning properties, so if you eat right, you should start to cut up.

As for PCT, a standard PCT would be clomid, starting the day after you stop(if you did an oral only, timing depends on the active life). Day 1: 300mg Days 2-11: 100mg/ed Days 12-21: 50mg/ed

For liver support, i haven't heard that milk thistle is bad for you, but i could be wrong. There are a lot of companies that make liver support supplements, milk thistle being the main ingredient. If i was you, i would go to your local supplement store and tell them you are going to start taking pro-hormones(do not say you are going to start taking steroids) , ask them what they would recommend for liver support.

[100m champ]

very true i like t-bol but it took 2weeks to kick i gained 12 pounds over 6wk at 40mg.

[*mark*]

So there you have it, 6 weeks, 12 pounds which im guessing were lean gains, and im also guessing 100m champ has cycled before so he probably doesnt have the freshest receptors.

Sounds like t-bol is what you want, it is in the middle of the price range for orals, so it shouldnt cost you an arm and a leg to get.

If you are looking to cut, t-bol should do you some good as long as you dont eat like a pig on cycle, youll know how much is too much. Rule of thumb is at least 3500 cal/day on cycle, given your age and bf% im guessing your metabolism isnt as fast as a race horse, so that should be about right, but mabey a little more or less depending on how hungry you are.

you should also be doing cardio a few times a week while on cycle to help your heart and lungs adjust to the newly added body weight, 10-15 lbs may not sound like a lot, but i skipped out on the cardio on my first cycle and i had less wind than a 90 yr old afterwards(not literally). The cardio should also help you cut up and get ready for the beach.

[Hudson]

Hey thanks for all the advice guys. T-bol does sound good but i've just read a couple of things that are worrying about it, here it is.

"However, it is interesting to note that some users report mild gynocomastia with oral turinabol alone. Whether this is due to the aromatization of a small amount of methyltestosterone left over from the manufacturing process, the effect of androgens on electrolyte balance, or Oral Turinabol possibly having a small amount of direct action at the estrogen receptor, is unclear. The 4-chloro alteration also prevents Oral Turinabol from interacting with the 5-alpha reductase enzyme, so conversion to a dihydro form is not possible. Even so, androgenic allopecia is still possible with higher doses eg (>40mg/day), and not surprisingly, some erectile dysfunction will be present when Oral Turinabol is used alone despite a functional, or highly functional sex drive. "

and

"Additionally, Turinabol can lower the blood’s ability to clot, so special caution should be taken when using this steroid ."

So presumably if I get any signs of gyno I'd just have to add some Nolvadex to the cycle? But what about the dick problems?

Anyone know about it lowering the blood clotting ability? Can I take anything to help this?

Cheers guys

[*mark*]

i know you probably dont want to hear it, but using test is the silver bullet for preventing a limp noodle when using steroids that cause E.D. like deca or t-bol. Also, some erectile disfunction does not mean no erections 100% of the time, probably happens to some people so they have to throw it in there. Any E.D. experienced on cycle would stop soon after starting PCT. I havent heard too much about t-bol causing E.D. ive heard of deca doing it, hence, deca dick, but ive never heard of t-bol dick. But then again im no expert on t-bol.

Also, gyno is extremely rare, they just hype it up to scare people into thinking that if they take steroids they will wake up with a pair of double d's one morning. You should keep nolvadex or arimadex on hand in case you begin to see signs of gyno. Do not take it if you dont start to get gyno unless you already know that you are prone to it.

If you are really concerned with these issues, you should do a search for t-bol related posts, try to find people that have done t-bol only cycles to see what they have experienced.