Why wait until natural gains stop?

**rotunda** · 10-14-2002, 01:12 PM

Hey guys,

I don't want to sound ignorant of a lot of messages posted but why is it always the case that someone should wait until their natural gains have stopped before they start a cycle?

As an example, say we have a 170 lb guy who hasn't reached his natural limits. If he uses gear, he will most likely gain quite a bit of mass and keep them b/c he hasn't exceeded his natural limit. Compare this to a 225 lb guy who is maxed for natural gains, goes on gear, gains a lot of mass, but then loses quite a bit to bring him back close to his natural limit?

What is the reason for waiting so long? To prevent injuries? If someone is looking to gain mass quickly and not go through 2-3 years waiting for natural gains to stop and is willing to fork out the cash for gear, what's wrong with this?

Again, I am not trying to be ignorant or flame anyone, but I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on this.

**hammerhead** · 10-14-2002, 02:54 PM

It's like burning your life lines on Who Wants to be a Millionaire on the questions you already know the answer to. If you still have room to grow naturally you can save the juice for later and build higher and higher from there. If you start juice before then you're not going to reach as high because the juice itself only goes so far before your body burns out on it. Remember you have to take more and more to get the same results.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 10-14-2002, 03:02 PM

I believe if you not disciplined enough to train naturally first as far as you can go than you're not disciplined enough to use AS.
"Patience is a virtue."

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 10-14-2002, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
I believe if you not disciplined enough to train naturally first as far as you can go than you're not disciplined enough to use AS.
"Patience is a virtue."

Right on.

**bOBeRt** · 10-14-2002, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by hammerhead
It's like burning your life lines on Who Wants to be a Millionaire on the questions you already know the answer to.

That is the most awesome analogy I have ever heard

bOB

**brundle** · 10-14-2002, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by hammerhead
[BIf you start juice before then you're not going to reach as high because the juice itself only goes so far before your body burns out on it. [/B]

Is this a fact or just speculation???

I still haven't heard a good explanation on why to max out naturally before juicing.

**stompin** · 10-07-2005, 04:47 PM

gear fuses your growth plates. Not 2 good for the not yet fully developed male!
And if you do take silly/stupid doses of it over many years it problie would
burn out your androgen receptors i would have thought.

**longhorn814** · 10-07-2005, 04:51 PM

you wouldnt build a house without a solid foundation would you? Without that foundation the gains will go as quickly as they come!

**brolicscholar** · 10-07-2005, 05:07 PM

If you were a bull you wouldn't run down and bang one cow when you can walk down and bang them all would you?

It was worth a shot!

**STEVO 47** · 10-07-2005, 05:32 PM

If you're not dedicated to put in the hard work that bodybuilding is
based on and looking for the easy way to get big fast then you need
to find another sport, sport !

**Puffader** · 10-07-2005, 05:39 PM

If you’re disciplined, know your compounds, have a good diet and know how to workout properly I don’t see anything wrong with starting early. With that said, it takes time to learn the ropes. All I can say is if you start early start slow until you know how your body reacts to each compound and PCT is more important that juicing itself for the young guns out there.

I started when I was 15. My buddy started at the same time (200mg a week cyp) and he turned yellow from liver issues in 3 weeks. Just know your body and start slow for the first time.

**Son Of Khadafi** · 10-07-2005, 05:45 PM

I think what most of the guys here are trying to say is that you should try to rely as little as possible on AAS while you can, because you build up tolerance to it over time. It's a question of how big you want to get. If you wait til your 220 naturally then start you will become a monster. If you start heavy AAS at 170 then you will get big, but you may only wind up at 220 and be just bigger than average

**Drummerboy** · 10-07-2005, 05:48 PM

I didnt hit natural max first. Only trained a year. Started out at 160, now holding 202. Prolly diet down to about 190. Total time training is 1 natural plus 2.5 after first aas. I think eating, maintenance training (light, high reps) and PCT helped keep much of it... I do have a few reasons to train naturally first though... getting used to the gym and finding what works for you first... joints and tendons need to be strengthened cause aas make the muscle to strong for them, too fast...(i learned this the hard way)... getting to know your weaknesses (bad shoulder)... and what texan said bout' discipline... dunno, my 2 cents.

**stupidhippo** · 10-08-2005, 02:47 AM

maybe u would be bigger now if would've waited longer? Hard topic, no real proof anywhere to either direction..

**Unoid** · 10-08-2005, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Drummerboy

I didnt hit natural max first. Only trained a year. Started out at 160, now holding 202. Prolly diet down to about 190. Total time training is 1 natural plus 2.5 after first aas. I think eating, maintenance training (light, high reps) and PCT helped keep much of it... I do have a few reasons to train naturally first though... getting used to the gym and finding what works for you first... joints and tendons need to be strengthened cause aas make the muscle to strong for them, too fast...(i learned this the hard way)... getting to know your weaknesses (bad shoulder)... and what texan said bout' discipline... dunno, my 2 cents.

I suppose you're also lucky you didn't tear anything.

**MRQUEENSLAND** · 11-25-2005, 11:09 PM

I believe from my experience if a person pumps iron for 6 to 10 years before they go on the gear their body will look thicker and more mature. The gear is not a quick fix answer and it's not permanant!! By training several years before the gear you develop a real love for the sport then the gear comes second. When you train your mind to think this way winning becomes easy. Bodybuilding is a culture the gear isn't.
MR QUEENSLAND

**V5RED** · 11-25-2005, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by rotunda

Hey guys,

I don't want to sound ignorant of a lot of messages posted but why is it always the case that someone should wait until their natural gains have stopped before they start a cycle?

As an example, say we have a 170 lb guy who hasn't reached his natural limits. If he uses gear, he will most likely gain quite a bit of mass and keep them b/c he hasn't exceeded his natural limit. Compare this to a 225 lb guy who is maxed for natural gains, goes on gear, gains a lot of mass, but then loses quite a bit to bring him back close to his natural limit?

What is the reason for waiting so long? To prevent injuries? If someone is looking to gain mass quickly and not go through 2-3 years waiting for natural gains to stop and is willing to fork out the cash for gear, what's wrong with this?

Again, I am not trying to be ignorant or flame anyone, but I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on this.

unless u mean 225 shredded on a short dude, he isnt maxed for gains

170 is light

i dont believe u should max for gains, but u should learn your body which takes years since trying variuous training methods to find what works takes years

in short train for years learn and then gear away

ps: diet is the key factor so also work on building up that appetite (diet>gear,training,and genetics combined)