Strength specific steroids?

[Sehr]

Hi this is my first post here. Ive always been against the use of steroids because i always assumed they were horrible for your body and took chunks out of your lifespan. After coming here it seems that this isnt really true for many steroids. Im training to get stronger, not for competetion etc. I have NO INTEREST in getting bigger, actually i want to avoid this at all costs. Alot of the exercises i do involve bodyweight, and as such of course i dont want to increase my weight. As you can tell i am also looking for information on steroids that have very few side effects. So to summarize, im looking for something that will give me quicker strength gains without serious side effects and weight gain/muscle growth.

(most of this is strictly informational, i doubt i would ever use steroids )
If anyone has any info or anything i would appreciate it. Thanks!

[Nazza]

Think Anavar would be a good choice mate - mild steroid and good strenght gain - a little expensive though

[Big]

Welcome.
What are your stats?
Why do you wish to be stronger? Do you compete at something?

[200byjune]

yo workoutand you dont want to ge bigger. u only want to get strongr wth no muscle gain. thats an oxoron. my adviseis to stop working out

[PT]

tren and halo are the 2 best steroids for strength. im not telling you to take either im just answering your question. there both very strong steroids with alot of sides and are only for experianced people with many cycles under there belt

[ShadetreeJones]

Halotestin is the way to go from everything I've heard. For a first timer I might recommend anavar . Loved this shit when I used it.

[Sehr]

yo workoutand you dont want to ge bigger. u only want to get strongr wth no muscle gain. thats an oxoron. my adviseis to stop working out

That may be the most ignorant thing ive ever heard. Strength is due to the amount of tension a muscle can create, something that is based on the efficiency of the nervous system. Cross sectional area of muscle ALSO is directly related to strength but size doesnt nessesarily equal strength. THere are specific ways to train so as to remain small but get insanely strong, i do bodyweight feats of strength and it would be much easier if i didint gain much weight. Not only can you increase the nervous system efficiency you can also increase the number of muscle cells in the same area, getting dense lean muscle mass. I know alot of guys bigger than me who arent as strong. I do strongman acts, tearing cards, phonebooks, bending nails. And the other people in the industry are rarely big guys, they are often normal looking men, with crazy strength. Do your research before you spout like that, i have read countless articles and books, and done a shitload of research on all aspects of strength training and aquisiton.

Anavar looked good to me aswell. I wouldnt use it myself as the things i do require tendon and ligaments to be strong, steroid use enhances the muscle so quickly that you can often injure yourself. Anyways what kind of side effects do you get from anavar use?

[Sehr]

Welcome.
What are your stats?
Why do you wish to be stronger? Do you compete at something?

Im around 6ft tall im only 19, i weigh 160, although i would prefer to weigh less if i could. I can build muscle fairly easily, but that has never been my goal. Just pure strength, a little size is nice to have aswell but not a neccesity. I dont compete per-say but i do perform strongman stunts and my workouts are goal oriented like my current goal is a legit one arm chin up, handstand pushups on the rings, full range extension with the ab wheel, Dragon flags, etc. Im decently big for never trying to gain size, with small wrists (6.75in) i have around 12 inch foararms, 14 inch upper arms. My legs are pretty big naturally, they would definately grow like crazy with training, which is cool for some people but like i said i just want to be stronger.

[Sehr]

Halotestin is the way to go from everything I've heard. For a first timer I might recommend anavar. Loved this shit when I used it.

What is the use of anivar like? Im very new to this whole thing. Is it like how youd take a medication? X times a day for X #of weeks? Or is it oriented around your workouts?

I dont think any of this is for me to be honest. I do 3 sets of 5reps, steroids are effective at repairing muscle tissue in very short periods of time, as such it seems that you need to be doing many more reps which would cause the muscle tears needed. BUt as such this is a formula for size. I know this is a generality, there may be MANY more steroids that dont work in this way, but it seems they generally work based on the above recovery statement.

[Phate]

What is the use of anivar like? Im very new to this whole thing. Is it like how youd take a medication? X times a day for X #of weeks? Or is it oriented around your workouts?with all AS you would take a certain amount at a certain time, like 250mg every 3.5 days for test e at 500mg/week

I dont think any of this is for me to be honest.not at our age, i'm 18 btw, so i would agree that AS is not for us for a while I do 3 sets of 5repsper muscle group?, steroids are effective at repairing muscle tissue in very short periods of time, as such it seems that you need to be doing many more reps which would cause the muscle tears needednot necessarily, AS are effective at increasing nitrogen retention and protein synthesis causing more ability to grow and at a faster rate, this can lead people to overtrain though as they think that since they are on AS they have to go 500sets when in fact that will only do damage. BUt as such this is a formula for size. I know this is a generality, there may be MANY more steroids that dont work in this way, but it seems they generally work based on the above recovery statement.

just curious, what are your maxs

[inky-e]

Im around 6ft tall im only 19, i weigh 160, although i would prefer to weigh less if i could. I can build muscle fairly easily, but that has never been my goal. Just pure strength, a little size is nice to have aswell but not a neccesity. I dont compete per-say but i do perform strongman stunts and my workouts are goal oriented like my current goal is a legit one arm chin up, handstand pushups on the rings, full range extension with the ab wheel, Dragon flags, etc. Im decently big for never trying to gain size, with small wrists (6.75in) i have around 12 inch foararms, 14 inch upper arms. My legs are pretty big naturally, they would definately grow like crazy with training, which is cool for some people but like i said i just want to be stronger.

Ok,you're 6' at 160lbs.,and 14" bi's? You'd rather weigh less, a little size would be nice but not necessary,bro theres a few contradictions there.I don't know how you can use anything for strength and not build muscle,and you say you build muscle fairly easily. theres no magic solution. It is not my intention to shoot you down,I consider myself pretty openminded,its just that your statements are pretty ambiguious.

[200byjune]

can you please explain to me how you can get stronger without building muscle? 3 sets of 5 is for mass and strength. and honestly if you can show me somthing that says you can workout and get stronger with no muscle gain? i honstly think its impossible.

and yes what are your maxs? why dont you want to grow muscle? why do you want to lose weight? if you dont compete why does it matter how much you weight?

[VWbug66]

this guy is annoying, "i wanna get stronger, weigh less than i do now,..blaha blah blah"

[Phate]

can you please explain to me how you can get stronger without building muscle? 3 sets of 5 is for mass and strength. and honestly if you can show me somthing that says you can workout and get stronger with no muscle gain? i honstly think its impossible.

and yes what are your maxs? why dont you want to grow muscle? why do you want to lose weight? if you dont compete why does it matter how much you weight?

i don't think he means he thinks he can get stronger with NO muscle gain, but you can get stronger by forcing your muscles to become denser, that is the actual muscle fibers get thicker resulting in more strength but not as much size as with conventional mass training, trust me, i know a couple kids that look skinny compared to me and are really dense, they can each bench over couple their weight and squat almost triple

i'd have to disagree that 3 sets of five is just for mass and strength, it may be for you but everybody is different, as Lee Priest said in one of his articles, his arms respond to high rep high set training but a friend of his responds better to lower rep lower set training, it's just what your body responds too

[Phate]

this guy is annoying, "i wanna get stronger, weigh less than i do now,..blaha blah blah"

no, whats annoying is people that post things like this^^^^that help no-one, offer no advice, and serve no purpose whatsoever, not trying to flame you but if you don't have something to add to the conversation then don't say anything at all

[bhamstaff]

if your a powerlifter you wouldnt want to put on weight if you were trying to make a weight class. but putting on muscle is fine just weight is the priority id have thought. he may have had this in mind and worded it wrong?

[jeffefrijoles]

That may be the most ignorant thing ive ever heard. Strength is due to the amount of tension a muscle can create, something that is based on the efficiency of the nervous system. Cross sectional area of muscle ALSO is directly related to strength but size doesnt nessesarily equal strength. THere are specific ways to train so as to remain small but get insanely strong, i do bodyweight feats of strength and it would be much easier if i didint gain much weight. Not only can you increase the nervous system efficiency you can also increase the number of muscle cells in the same area, getting dense lean muscle mass. I know alot of guys bigger than me who arent as strong. I do strongman acts, tearing cards, phonebooks, bending nails. And the other people in the industry are rarely big guys, they are often normal looking men, with crazy strength. Do your research before you spout like that, i have read countless articles and books, and done a shitload of research on all aspects of strength training and aquisiton.

Anavar looked good to me aswell. I wouldnt use it myself as the things i do require tendon and ligaments to be strong, steroid use enhances the muscle so quickly that you can often injure yourself. Anyways what kind of side effects do you get from anavar use?

hahaha...... ya, I think this guy has pretty well explained his situation and what it is he does (strongman feats). Kudos Phate for actually giving him good answers and addresing his needs. I dont see anything wrong with his request for info. Heck, I was 160 lbs at 6' tall once, and was actually quite strong, stronger than most bigger guys at my gym. He is absolutely right in muscle fibres getting denser as opposed to just bigger. Hope you find what you're looking for bro. Good luck!

[Lemonada8]

So it seems like you are kind of pointing out a cutting cycle, where you dont get much muscle bloat... I'm kind of in the same situation... you can def do a test prop cycle which seems to be agreed upon that it has the least amount of bloat... tren is also known for lean mass gain w/o much mass gain... as long as you keep some cardio up, and a good diet, you shouldnt gain to much weight... just try to keep the water swelling down... Best of luck!!!


ps whats ur bf % cause you can look into that also... cut down some fat and gain some muscle denseness... should keep u about level or minimal weight gain... and prolly look into antiestrogens AI and SERM... cause those will help w/ the water retention also by keeping that down...

[Sehr]

just curious, what are your maxs

I only train 3 exercises at the moment. My max weighted chin up is 95lb i can do around 8 handstand pushups. Weighted dip, 100lb? Deadlift 325(never really trained it ) Otherwise theres nothing very exciting except my wrists and hands, which is the neccessity for strongman stunts. But these are leverage feats with sledge hammers and such and as such i cant really explain the maxs. I can take a 12lb sledge hammer by the very end of the handle raise my arm horizontal and then with the hammer part resting on my head use the wrist power to lift the sledge (try it sometime). Dumbell wrist curl 70lb.
Some other stuff i havnt really worked but is also maxes....
Bench maybe 175, never trained it in my life, it fluctuates alot. 20 1arm pushups. barbell curl 100lb. Good mornings with BW, shoulder press 135 (youd think the handstand pushups would transfer over more.) I only think my good lifts were the fisrt ones with exception of the dips. I started training in around september this year. Before that i just did random stuff in the gym, with the exception of geting the one arm pushup. My hands and wrists i trained randomly. But i train them more often now. As you can tell i have horrible organization when it comes to writing. Oh and i did a little more research into anavar and of course i was wrong to clump it into the high rep steroid gains club.

[Sehr]

hahaha...... ya, I think this guy has pretty well explained his situation and what it is he does (strongman feats). Kudos Phate for actually giving him good answers and addresing his needs. I dont see anything wrong with his request for info. Heck, I was 160 lbs at 6' tall once, and was actually quite strong, stronger than most bigger guys at my gym. He is absolutely right in muscle fibres getting denser as opposed to just bigger. Hope you find what you're looking for bro. Good luck!

Thanks man. Current research into muscle growth is actually really shitty, ive heard that muscle cells are fixed at birth and only increase in size, but ive also read that they can split in a process called hypoplasia (spelling not 100%?) this was analyzed in birds and found an increase in muscle size by 325% if im correct, purely by the cell division, it hasnt been confirmed in humans, so theres still alot of controversey on the subject. so the problem for me of having all this fitness information is that i realize nobody really knows anything!

[Sehr]

So it seems like you are kind of pointing out a cutting cycle, where you dont get much muscle bloat... I'm kind of in the same situation... you can def do a test prop cycle which seems to be agreed upon that it has the least amount of bloat... tren is also known for lean mass gain w/o much mass gain... as long as you keep some cardio up, and a good diet, you shouldnt gain to much weight... just try to keep the water swelling down... Best of luck!!!


ps whats ur bf % cause you can look into that also... cut down some fat and gain some muscle denseness... should keep u about level or minimal weight gain... and prolly look into antiestrogens AI and SERM... cause those will help w/ the water retention also by keeping that down...

I have no idea what my bf% is, i should really get some calipers or something. Im guessing around 7% or so? Maybe higher but probly no more than 10%. Mainly because my abs are super visible (could just be hypertrophy of the muscle). Ill get some calipers and find out.

[Sehr]

if your a powerlifter you wouldnt want to put on weight if you were trying to make a weight class. but putting on muscle is fine just weight is the priority id have thought. he may have had this in mind and worded it wrong?

Yea sorry that is what i meant, although the two tend to come hand in hand, for alot of people.

[hdd123]

I only train 3 exercises at the moment. My max weighted chin up is 95lb i can do around 8 handstand pushups. Weighted dip, 100lb? Deadlift 325(never really trained it ) Otherwise theres nothing very exciting except my wrists and hands, which is the neccessity for strongman stunts. But these are leverage feats with sledge hammers and such and as such i cant really explain the maxs. I can take a 12lb sledge hammer by the very end of the handle raise my arm horizontal and then with the hammer part resting on my head use the wrist power to lift the sledge (try it sometime). Dumbell wrist curl 70lb.
Some other stuff i havnt really worked but is also maxes....
Bench maybe 175, never trained it in my life, it fluctuates alot. 20 1arm pushups. barbell curl 100lb. Good mornings with BW, shoulder press 135 (youd think the handstand pushups would transfer over more.) I only think my good lifts were the fisrt ones with exception of the dips. I started training in around september this year. Before that i just did random stuff in the gym, with the exception of geting the one arm pushup. My hands and wrists i trained randomly. But i train them more often now. As you can tell i have horrible organization when it comes to writing. Oh and i did a little more research into anavar and of course i was wrong to clump it into the high rep steroid gains club.

Man...keep on to train, train and train hard without roids by the moment yet. Results not bad, but in my opinion, it wouldn't be good base for roid taking (if only these numbers are not in kg?). Check good endocrinologue, so you can be sure, that your body have no health probs. or probs. with hormones, metabolism and it will be able to endure during intensive workouts. Eat healthy food, etc. and don't take those shity sport's supplements. When u feel/'no that's it I can't push out naturally more'/, make your own decision to start your body's torture with roids or not.
Btw, u should obligatly work- out with that bench press- in many cases it shows the real bodys strenght potencial u have and heavy but less repeated benches also increases natural test quite a lot.

[Sehr]

can you please explain to me how you can get stronger without building muscle? 3 sets of 5 is for mass and strength. and honestly if you can show me somthing that says you can workout and get stronger with no muscle gain? i honstly think its impossible.

and yes what are your maxs? why dont you want to grow muscle? why do you want to lose weight? if you dont compete why does it matter how much you weight?

I dont care too much about growth anymore, just weight. If your actually interested read Power to the People by Pavel Tsatsouline. Muscle density is a controversial topic, but although i may not be very big i have super hard muscles, i think it is rather a result of being able to tense them harder. For an example of strength without size remember that it has been recorded to date that several people who have experienced large electrical shock (lightning etc) have snapped their own bones because the muscle flexed so hard. Or mental patients who can literaly bend the bars in their cells because the wiring in their body is haywire. This is due to nervous strength, the ability to generate tension. By practicing with heavy weight and few reps you are conditioning the nervous system as well as stressing the joints. many people then wonder why you cant just practice flexing as hard as you can and get super strong, and stay small? You can to an extent, but the joints have sensors in them that shut the muscle down if the weight on them is too much, this is a safety mechanism so that you dont rip your tendons and break your bones. We call this the "strength deficit". Anyways so in terms of training for strength without size. (i was going to insert quotes of the book but it wont let me copy and paste). basically you use heavy weights, focus on tensiing the muscles harder, QUIT BEFORE FAILURE, keep the reps to 5 and fewer, limit the number of sets. Im pretty much a walking example of this. Basically do as much work as you can while your still as fresh as possible, avoiding all muscle tissue breakdown and subsequent gains in size.

[Sehr]

Man...keep on to train, train and train hard without roids by the moment yet. Results not bad, but in my opinion, it wouldn't be good base for roid taking (if only these numbers are not in kg?). Check good endocrinologue, so you can be sure, that your body have no health probs. or probs. with hormones, metabolism and it will be able to endure during intensive workouts. Eat healthy food, etc. and don't take those shity sport's supplements. When u feel/'no that's it I can push out naturally'/, make your own decision to start your body's torture with roids or not.

Yea it was more of an informative post, IF i did, what should i take sort of thing. Like i said the only unusual stuff i can do is bodyweight skills (which is what i train for) and hands and wrists.

[inky-e]

no, whats annoying is people that post things like this^^^^that help no-one, offer no advice, and serve no purpose whatsoever, not trying to flame you but if you don't have something to add to the conversation then don't say anything at all

Powerless over others, what a concept.^^ Makes life easier.

[Sehr]

Ok,you're 6' at 160lbs.,and 14" bi's? You'd rather weigh less, a little size would be nice but not necessary,bro theres a few contradictions there.I don't know how you can use anything for strength and not build muscle,and you say you build muscle fairly easily. theres no magic solution. It is not my intention to shoot you down,I consider myself pretty openminded,its just that your statements are pretty ambiguious.

Your telling me you haven't ever heard of a small guy lifting insane weights? Texan farmer Bob peoples could deadlift over 700lb at a BW of 175.

My opinion was similar to yours for the longest time. But experience showed me that size doesnt nessecarily=strength so i knew there was a way to get strong and stay small, certain things didint add up. For example. My grandpa was a tank when he was my age, he could one arm military press a 90lb dumbell with ease, do one arm chin ups.....etc. the thing is taht he wasnt big at all, he weighed like 155 at the time, so i knew there had to be a way to get strong without bulking up ( i was into martial arts, i didint want to get big). I did some searching and finally found the book Power to the People by Pavel Tsatsouline, which showed me exactly how you can get super strength without bulk. Ill quote some of the book. This is a direct quote from the book, which in turn is quoting Mel C Siff, famous strength scientist ( wrote supertraining).

""It is important to note that most of the.... factors underlying strength production are functional rather than structural." point out top Russian strength expert Prof. Yuri Verkhoshansky and his South African counterpart Dr. Mel Siff. "Those determined by efficiency of the nervous system are of fundamental concern to the development of strength, since the muscular 'motors' are operated by synchronized electrical impulses supplied to the muscles by the nerves. Current preoccupation with the use of anabolic steroids to produce bulk thus may be seen to be misplaced unless bodybuilding bulk is the sole objective. The development of specialized training regimes to enhance nervous system conditioning would be scientifically and morally more advisable...""


"When it is said that a muscles strength is proportional to it's cross-section, that statement must be qualified: Everything else being equal. 'Everything else' is largely the level of activation of the muscles by the nervous system, or neurological efficiency. It is estimated that an average person can contract only 20-30% of his muscles when trying his hardest. Even a top lifter uses no more than 50% of his impressive muscles! Your muscles are already capable of lifting a car. They just do not know it yet. To appreciate your true strength potential, ponder the fact when a person is electrocuted -by lighting, or the Fed -His muscles tear, his tendons rip off their attatchments, even bones break... For the first -and last- time in death row inmate's or golfer's life his muscles were fully activated by electricity. Although we do not know yet how to completely overcome the strength deficit (which is good -you would rip yourself apart!),modern training methods can dramatically improve your muscle activation -and your strength with it. Power to the People will teach you how to install the top of the line 'muscle software' into your nervous system and improve your strength and muscle tone. Without putting on an ounce of weight if that is your wish." He later explains that if this is your first time training you will experience some growth whether you want to or not.

[jeffefrijoles]

Thanks man. Current research into muscle growth is actually really shitty, ive heard that muscle cells are fixed at birth and only increase in size, but ive also read that they can split in a process called hypoplasia (spelling not 100%?) this was analyzed in birds and found an increase in muscle size by 325% if im correct, purely by the cell division, it hasnt been confirmed in humans, so theres still alot of controversey on the subject. so the problem for me of having all this fitness information is that i realize nobody really knows anything!

Sehr, I suggest you switch gears and look into GH. You will find thath while AAS will create growth in existing muscle cells, only GH can actual create new muscle cells, or hypoplasia! This may be something more up you alley as to what you are searching for. GH will lower body fat while at the same time, very slowly, creat new muscle fibres and imrove your overall body compostion. You could stay the same size, lower BF% and gain strength with new muscle fibres and greater density/quality. I speak from experience on this one.... take a look into it!

[Sehr]

Sehr, I suggest you switch gears and look into GH. You will find thath while AAS will create growth in existing muscle cells, only GH can actual create new muscle cells, or hypoplasia! This may be something more up you alley as to what you are searching for. GH will lower body fat while at the same time, very slowly, creat new muscle fibres and imrove your overall body compostion. You could stay the same size, lower BF% and gain strength with new muscle fibres and greater density/quality. I speak from experience on this one.... take a look into it!

Thanks ill definately look into it. It never hurts to have more fitness info!

[Phate]

Thanks ill definately look into it. It never hurts to have more fitness info!

here is a good thread on it
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=265314

[jaysunderstudy]

My guess would be Halotestin , but if you look at the anabolic /androgenic ratio its nothing to mess around with.
That is kind of redundant tho that you wanna get stronger but not bigger, because you should be eating alota protein neway so your gonna get bigger since steroids do magnify the protein synthesis thing. The only time I could see that getting stronger without getting bigger would be if you were a wrestler or sumthing and wanted to stay in ur weight class or a boxer.

[Lemonada8]

^^ if you actually read the previous posts, you would have the answer to that...

[Sehr]

What would be a reasonable dosage to take? Im not looking for huge gaings in strength just noticable gains, im thinking maybe 8 capsules, 45mg a day, a regular sized bottle of 50 caps would only give me a weeks supply, and run me around 110$.

[Phate]

i wouldn't run it if i was you, it's very potent and extremely liver toxic

to answer your question, for strength gains, 30-40mg/day for no more than 4-6 weeks

for aggression 10mg before workout is fine