Gyno

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 07:33 PM

I know a lot of members here including myself have all experienced some form of gyno, whether it be puberty related, AAS related or those stupid designer hormone supplements.

Now my question to everyone here is who has experienced gyno long past using any type of hormonal supplement?

Also anyone experiment with IGF develop a small case of gyno months later?

A big one to think about is OTC supplements, for instance creatine. Has anyone ever thought about how creatine may increase ones potential to get gyno? I have. Recently I have been ingesting creatine that has a lot of dextrose with it (a mix) with my protein shakes and just this past friday/saturday it seems I have gotten a pea sized lump under my right nipple. Not too mention the stress levels from buying the right bike while my car is sitting needing a new transmission.....(another story) But that included with my increase in my diet and gaining weight (another one to mention is my libido is thru the roof) It seems that I have gotten a bit of gyno.

My last cycle ended last october and it was a simple test and EQ cycle. I didnt experience any problems then. I tried an IGF cycle this past january and was fine with that. Then Just this past weekend i started to develop this gyno crap. Im not sure if it was the increase in creatine intake or not, or if it is the stress levels combined with an increase in libido (maybe high test levels?) Or possibly a new preworkout supplement I just started taking which contains caffene, kre-alkylin, and arganine (along with a whole bunch of useless crap). What are some causes or could be causes of gyno that formed months down the road, could OTC supps play any role in this? Please anyone who may have had this happen or is knowledgable on this chime in. Also im well aware of letro reversal, use of nolvadex , etc....ive dealt with this before and i nailed it down to that stupid pheraplex that I had tried (crap and will never do it again)

So whats ur thoughts?

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 07:39 PM

Another thing I thought of due to Merc's thread which could be a cause of gyno (not sure how) but kidney failure. Unless I read it wrong it stated that Kidney failure could be a cause of gyno. I also thought about prolactin levels being too high but my libido is thru the roof....so thats rules out. If kidney failure or ingesting 15g of creatine a day without enough water could do it then that could be ruled in. Maybe ill need to increase water intake. Maybe a spike in natural testosterone production would lead to a higher aromatization rate which could cause an excess of estrogen and possibly cause gyno? Im seriously trying to get ideas that I can consider and look deeper into them.

**MuscleScience** · 04-23-2008, 07:45 PM

I do not believe I have ever read any reported side effects of creatine and gyno.

**shifty_git** · 04-23-2008, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by legobricks

Another thing I thought of due to Merc's thread which could be a cause of gyno (not sure how) but kidney failure. Unless I read it wrong it stated that Kidney failure could be a cause of gyno. I also thought about prolactin levels being too high but my libido is thru the roof....so thats rules out. If kidney failure or ingesting 15g of creatine a day without enough water could do it then that could be ruled in. Maybe ill need to increase water intake. Maybe a spike in natural testosterone production would lead to a higher aromatization rate which could cause an excess of estrogen and possibly cause gyno? Im seriously trying to get ideas that I can consider and look deeper into them.

Doesn't prolactin also lower estrogen by slowing aromatization?

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 07:49 PM

Neither have I, Now I know creatine will raise ATP serum levels but how can that play effect with it or can it?

Also wondering about the huge increase in libido. Seriously since i started natural bulking and really cleaned up the diet im saying major gains and a huge libido. It feels as if my test is thru the roof to be honest.

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by shifty_git

Doesn't prolactin also lower estrogen by slowing aromatization?

Not sure, but I do know that an increase in estrogen circulating the body increases prolactin production which is weird cus like i said im a walking woody right now.

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 08:01 PM

I do know that after sexual gratification (

) I think your body increases prolactin production to depress dopamine levels and if it does its not puttin out enough cus im ready for round 2 right after!

Still tho, prolactin will reduce sex hormones which i ruled out cus my libido is thru the roof. Im wondering if a spike in natty test could be enough to cause a high aromatization which could be a culprit of gyno.......Now im wondering if my diet/exercise routine/ or OTC supps could be the cause (which one effects it more) of my increased test production.

Once again, im thinking my test is high right now due to the high libido, great sense of well being after the gym and all day long, great lifts in the gym, increase in strength, agression, hunger, basically all things you could expect from high test levels.

**shifty_git** · 04-23-2008, 08:03 PM

From wikipedia

Activity
Factors known to increase aromatase activity include age, obesity, insulin , gonadotropins, and alcohol.
Aromatase activity is decreased by prolactin, AMH, and smoking. Aromatase activity appears to be enhanced in certain estrogen-dependent local tissue next to breast cancer, endometrial cancer, endometriosis, and uterine fibroids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase

**shifty_git** · 04-23-2008, 08:06 PM

Maybe if ya prolactin is low (as indicated by sexdrive) and ya had a natty spike of test like you said, it leaves the system open for quick aromatization?

+ then one of the supps adding to the situation?

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by shifty_git

From wikipedia

Activity
Factors known to increase aromatase activity include age, obesity, insulin, gonadotropins, and alcohol.
Aromatase activity is decreased by prolactin, AMH, and smoking. Aromatase activity appears to be enhanced in certain estrogen-dependent local tissue next to breast cancer, endometrial cancer, endometriosis, and uterine fibroids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase

Originally Posted by shifty_git

Maybe if ya prolactin is low (as indicated by sexdrive) and ya had a natty spike of test like you said, it leaves the system open for quick aromatization?

+ then one of the supps adding to the situation?

Insulin . Whether it is low or high having an effect on gyno could be an issue. The huge amount of dextrose taking POST workout obvioulsy will spike the insulin, the workout itself will increase test production by a bit, and also an spike in insulin before bed (i know not the best idea here) could be a cuase of aromatization. And if prolactin levels are low and had a spike of test this could leave me defenseless against aromatization... Very well put shifty, thanx for that response.

So an increase in estrogen or having high estrogen levels will increase prolactin production to reduce the estrogen levels? AHHH this is making my head hurt, gotta eat.

More thoughts about insulin and its effect on estrogen, testosterone , aromatization, gyno, etc....?

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 04-23-2008, 08:40 PM

I HATE gyno.

Im getting surgery done in June,but I just know its gonna come back...just my f'n luck

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx

I HATE gyno.

Im getting surgery done in June,but I just know its gonna come back...just my f'n luck

That sucks bro! good luck with it and take all precautionary measures in the future if you havent in the past. I have a buddy down here who is in the same boat and getting surgery soon, im hoping to shrink mine b4 it gets any larger.

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 08:58 PM

Interesting read on Wikipedia about gynecomastia ......

Repeated topical application of products containing lavender and tea tree oils among other unidentified ingredients to three prepubescent males coincided with gynecomastia; it has been theorised that this could be due to their estrogenic and antiandrogenic activity. However, other circumstances around the study are not clear, and the sample size was insignificant so serious scientific conclusions cannot be drawn

Yes I have been using tea tree oil for my head as i keep my hair buzzed and it keeps any dandruff or what not down. Makes my hair soft too.

It is a possability that this could be an issue with being directly on the skin (not on the chest but on the head) BUT i doubt it.

**shifty_git** · 04-23-2008, 09:00 PM

maybe this is a chance to test out Toremifene claims!

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 04-23-2008, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by legobricks

That sucks bro! good luck with it and take all precautionary measures in the future if you havent in the past. I have a buddy down here who is in the same boat and getting surgery soon, im hoping to shrink mine b4 it gets any larger.

Thanks.

I took PP also....lol

But my first ever cycle was an SD cycle, with pretty no PCT....i was dumb haha

but yeah, after surgery, for every cycle, gonna have arimidex through cycle, letro on hand, and nolva/clomid and aromasin ready for PCT....

lol I shouldnt run into any more problems...should i?

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx

Thanks.

I took PP also....lol

But my first ever cycle was an SD cycle, with pretty no PCT....i was dumb haha

but yeah, after surgery, for every cycle, gonna have arimidex through cycle, letro on hand, and nolva/clomid and aromasin ready for PCT....

lol I shouldnt run into any more problems...should i?

Well with that type of weaponry I dont see why you should have any more issues!

And with the superdrol a PCT is required due to estrogen rebounds while tyring to recover. Hmmm, the PP is just plain garbage in my eyes. It did nothing but increase my agression 10fold and i mean like tren aggression and it gave me dry joints, wicked ass lower back pump and some mean gyno.

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 04-23-2008, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by legobricks

Well with that type of weaponry I dont see why you should have any more issues!

And with the superdrol a PCT is required due to estrogen rebounds while tyring to recover. Hmmm, the PP is just plain garbage in my eyes. It did nothing but increase my agression 10fold and i mean like tren aggression and it gave me dry joints, wicked ass lower back pump and some mean gyno.

hahaha thats what Im hoping. Id rather shell out the extra hundred or so, then have to shell out another 4g's for f'n surgery.

Best of luck with your case. I dont really know much about it, and how it works. But I can share my miserable experiences with you

hahaha

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 09:16 PM

LoL! Good luck with you as well and your surgery!

Shifty, send me some Toremafine and ill get right on that! I would LOVE to give it a whirl.

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 04-23-2008, 09:20 PM

Im actually considering Toremafine as part as my next PCT.
Its suppose to be stronger than nolva and clomid, but without the sides.

lol, test some out lego and let me know how it goes

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 09:30 PM

Ill see what i can dig up so I can give it a try.

Anyone else on this gyno issue?

**legobricks** · 04-23-2008, 10:00 PM

Bump

**legobricks** · 04-24-2008, 10:10 AM

Bump for the dayshift

**tadpoleboyy** · 04-24-2008, 11:26 AM

maybe there is something in the creatine? I have read that a lot of these supplements actually have traces of steroidal compounds in them. Just a thought. My buddy did noexplode and went to the ospital for terrbile abdominal pains, and i guess his test levels were very elevated. not sure if there was something in it or not.