Which is better for your cycle, AI or SERM?

**akaz13** · 06-19-2008, 11:45 PM

I think I am getting gyno. I am only 1 1/2 into my cycle,is that common so soon?

Anyway, my nipples are feeling weird.

I have nolva on hand, but not a lot, I need more for the full PCT. Which is better for gyno (differing opinions, I know), and the cycle (while still on cycle) itself?

And if I choose an AI, do I need to follow that up w/ a SERM?

**AdamGH** · 06-19-2008, 11:55 PM

Not flaming but there are like at least 6 gyno related posts under this one. All in the last 24 hours. Check them out if you have time

**Amorphic** · 06-20-2008, 01:25 AM

what are your stats as well as your cycle?

nolva shouldnt run used with 19nor steroids as it can actually make gyno worse due to the increase in progesterone.

if you are just running a simple test e cycle or something nolva would be good to try, if it doesnt work you can switch over to an AI to really get your estrogen down.

**akaz13** · 06-20-2008, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by AdamGH

Not flaming but there are like at least 6 gyno related posts under this one. All in the last 24 hours. Check them out if you have time

Sorry, about that. I wasn't trying to be a d!ck, I was running out the door to hit some squats, so I didn't even look.. But I will, tho..

Originally Posted by Amorphic

what are your stats as well as your cycle?

nolva shouldnt run used with 19nor steroids as it can actually make gyno worse due to the increase in progesterone.

if you are just running a simple test e cycle or something nolva would be good to try, if it doesnt work you can switch over to an AI to really get your estrogen down.

5'10" - 238lb, bf% dunno?

The cycle is a simple test E cycle, so the nolva is in play. How many mg and what is the dosing sched? Is the sched in the quote about right?

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/oestrogen-progesterone.aspx

Nolvadex is probably the most commonly used anti-oestrogen mainly due to its mostly positive effects, availability and low price. Controversy surrounds the fact that it anecdotally appears to reduce gains made on a cycle, mostly due to reduced water retention, but most users agree that losses, if any, are minimal and its always difficult to say what gains may have been made in its absence.

Dosing
An effective dose seems to be 10 to 20mg/day.
At first signs of a possible gyno, take 20mg/day until symptoms subside, then 10mg/day until completion of cycle and post-cycle Clomid therapy.

On the one hand, it seems like I would want to go w/ the AI, Arimidex . But the blood test part has me thinking twice. Not that I am afraid of needles, I just don't want to get into the debate w/ my Dr & the cost....

But, I want to maximize my gains, and some people believe that nolva gets in the way a little...

Opinions, please

**jc95605** · 06-20-2008, 06:41 AM

I like adex personally. I used it at .5mgs ed for 4 days and i got rid of 8lbs of dbol bloat. Point being is that you hardly have to use any and its pretty damn strong. I would use the adex would on cycle, but since you already have the nolva i would look at adex for pct.

**akaz13** · 06-20-2008, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by jc95605

I like adex personally. I used it at .5mgs ed for 4 days and i got rid of 8lbs of dbol bloat. Point being is that you hardly have to use any and its pretty damn strong. I would use the adex would on cycle, but since you already have the nolva i would look at adex for pct.

Did you get the bloo work done whe adex?

If not, did you have any problems?

**legobricks** · 06-20-2008, 09:11 AM

I prefer SERMS on cycle as they tend to work very well for me. AI's such as adex and letro seem to inhibit to much estrogen and therefore my body gets very sore and achy along with the lack of water weight that is associated with AAS. You really should have some water retention while on cycle due to the fact that it helps tremendosly with strength and weight gain. Ive found that my lifts in the gym are better while using an SERM then when using an AI. In your case since you already have gyno all you can really do is slow down or stop the growth by using an AI but you really cannot get rid of it while on cycle. If you are really not that far into it you may want to stop and get rid of the gyno first before continuing the cycle.

**jc95605** · 06-20-2008, 05:49 PM

I did not get any bloodwork done, but that was because i had absolutely no sides at all. Now if you already have gyno and/or alot of bloating i would run it at .5mgs. If your on cycle and just trying to keep the bloat down then .25mgs or .25mgs eod is all you'll need. How far are you into your cycle?

**uncgboro** · 06-20-2008, 07:46 PM

i posted in the wrong area.

**bernimx** · 06-20-2008, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by legobricks

I prefer SERMS on cycle as they tend to work very well for me. AI's such as adex and letro seem to inhibit to much estrogen and therefore my body gets very sore and achy along with the lack of water weight that is associated with AAS. You really should have some water retention while on cycle due to the fact that it helps tremendosly with strength and weight gain. Ive found that my lifts in the gym are better while using an SERM then when using an AI. In your case since you already have gyno all you can really do is slow down or stop the growth by using an AI but you really cannot get rid of it while on cycle. If you are really not that far into it you may want to stop and get rid of the gyno first before continuing the cycle.

Hey i'd have a few questions regarding what you just said if you don't mind answering them. First, aren't ichy nipple normal to some extent during the cycle, because of the higher estrogen around in your body? You seem to be saying that he already has gyno? Second, is there anything that he should have done to prevent it, such as running arimidex @ .25mg EOD during cycle, or nolva @ 10mg ED? Thirdly, you are also saying that he cannot get rid of it on cycle. Does that mean he will have to run a letro therapy to get rid of it post-cycle? thanks, just trying to learn.

**akaz13** · 06-20-2008, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by legobricks

I prefer SERMS on cycle as they tend to work very well for me. AI's such as adex and letro seem to inhibit to much estrogen and therefore my body gets very sore and achy along with the lack of water weight that is associated with AAS. You really should have some water retention while on cycle due to the fact that it helps tremendosly with strength and weight gain. Ive found that my lifts in the gym are better while using an SERM then when using an AI.

That is what I read, and I want to maximize the cycle.

Originally Posted by legobricks

In your case since you already have gyno all you can really do is slow down or stop the growth by using an AI but you really cannot get rid of it while on cycle. If you are really not that far into it you may want to stop and get rid of the gyno first before continuing the cycle.

So running a SERM at this point is useless?

I am only 3 shots into the cycle (500mg test E/ wk - 250mg 2 x week).... So is it better to stop, clear it up w/ letro (10 days?), then re-start the cycle while running nolva?

If so, how much nolva ed?

Or what about not stopping, running nolva through the cycle, then dealing w/ the gyno after the cycle? Which is better?

**akaz13** · 06-20-2008, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by jc95605

How far are you into your cycle?

3 shots into a 500mg test E/ wk - 250mg 2 x week cycle

**akaz13** · 06-21-2008, 02:13 PM

OK, I did 20mg of nolva last night and now I don't have the odd feeling going on...

How long should I stay w/ the 20mg ED of novla routine?

Also, say I was having a feeling of gyno toward the end of the cycle (near the last shot), would I still do nolva between the end of cycle and the beginning of PCT?

**DS21** · 06-21-2008, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by akaz13

OK, I did 20mg of nolva last night and now I don't have the odd feeling going on...

How long should I stay w/ the 20mg ED of novla routine?

Also, say I was having a feeling of gyno toward the end of the cycle (near the last shot), would I still do nolva between the end of cycle and the beginning of PCT?

I believe you answered this in your earlier post. Use the 20mgs untill the symtomps go away, then use 10mgs ed until you start pct.

**akaz13** · 06-21-2008, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by DS21

I believe you answered this in your earlier post. Use the 20mgs untill the symtomps go away, then use 10mgs ed until you start pct.

Thanks, bro.

It's just that there are so many different opinions from different sources... I saw one saying to stop the nolva when the symptoms go away..

I just wanted to get some input from ppl who have had boots on the ground....