Cyp for first cycle

[c16veins]

I think I've decided on test cypionate for my first cycle. Should I be taking nolvadex the entire cycle and a few weeks after? Or can I get away with just taking it the last few weeks and continue for a few after? Is liquidex necessary?

Any other first cycle suggestions/experiences are appreciated. Like most, I'm looking for best bang for my buck with minimal sides. I'm not big on orals... college drinking days probably did enough of a job on my liver. And of course, I don't want to lose 1/2 of my gains.

Experiences:
15 lbs weight gain and 50 lbs on bench with prohormones like Nutrex 1-tu, 4AD topical. Took this stuff when I was 21-22 for 4-6 weeks. Only kept 7-8 lbs after a couple weeks. I'm 26, almost 27, now and would like a kick for summer.

Stats:
6'2"
190 lbs
44" chest
17" arms
300 bench (335 4-1/2 years ago)


Desires:
210 lbs
46" chest
18" arms
350 bench

[c16veins]

Oh, and I'd prefer a 4-6 week cycle. Don't want anything that takes 4 weeks to start seeing results.

[wukillabee]

I think I've decided on test cypionate for my first cycle. Should I be taking nolvadex the entire cycle and a few weeks after? Or can I get away with just taking it the last few weeks and continue for a few after? Is liquidex necessary?

Any other first cycle suggestions/experiences are appreciated. Like most, I'm looking for best bang for my buck with minimal sides. I'm not big on orals... college drinking days probably did enough of a job on my liver. And of course, I don't want to lose 1/2 of my gains.

Experiences:
15 lbs weight gain and 50 lbs on bench with prohormones like Nutrex 1-tu, 4AD topical. Took this stuff when I was 21-22 for 4-6 weeks. Only kept 7-8 lbs after a couple weeks. I'm 26, almost 27, now and would like a kick for summer.

Stats:
6'2"
190 lbs
44" chest
17" arms
300 bench (335 4-1/2 years ago)


Desires:
210 lbs
46" chest
18" arms
350 bench

If u did ur researching before posting you'd see cyp isnt for u (if any aas at this point). Ur 4 inches taller than me and im 10 pounds bigger than u wit low bf and i still havent touched aas yet. U can easily get the minimal gains ur looking for if u search the diet forum and pick up some basic supps. SUre u might not be at ur goal by summer or next week but i assure u wont be by using aas either.

[SuperLift]

Oh, and I'd prefer a 4-6 week cycle. Don't want anything that takes 4 weeks to start seeing results.

Cyp is a longer ester meaning it takes 4-5 weeks to kick in. Unless you want to run it for 10-12 weeks, then I would maybe consider test prop. Good luck.

[c16veins]

Cyp is a longer ester meaning it takes 4-5 weeks to kick in. Unless you want to run it for 10-12 weeks, then I would maybe consider test prop. Good luck.

I've was reading too late last night. Test cyp is the longer ester.

Testosterone cypionate is an injectable oil which contains testosterone with the cypionate ester attached to the testosterone molecule. The ester denotes the release pattern of the test after it is injected into the body. This particular ester gives the testosterone an active life of 15-16 days, although blood levels of this drug fall sharply five days post-administration, testosterone levels are still above baseline after a week (24) . Stable blood levels can be achieved with once per week injections. Steriod.com members often administer the drug twice weekly or every three to five days days.

So you see, the longer the ester on the testosterone is, the longer the steroid is active in your body, and the less actual test you get. This is because, for every 100mgs of testosterone cypionate you inject, only 69.90mgs of it is actually testosterone, the rest is the cypionate ester, which must be removed. On the other hand, with the propionate ester you’ll get 83.72mgs of Testosterone! The advantage to longer esters is that they need to be injected less frequently (test prop needs to be injected every other day while you can shoot test cyp once a week). The disadvantage to long estered steroids is that they contain less actual steroid. Anecdotally, however, most people from Steroid.com and other discussion boards who have tried differing esters on their various cycles agree: Testosterone Propionate causes the least side effects and the least bloating. For this reason, it’s often the testosterone of choice in cutting cycles.

Test prop does sound like a better choice for me.

I'm also considering sus for the best of each world. I've had friends my size start with sus and loved it.

[c16veins]

If u did ur researching before posting you'd see cyp isnt for u (if any aas at this point). Ur 4 inches taller than me and im 10 pounds bigger than u wit low bf and i still havent touched aas yet. U can easily get the minimal gains ur looking for if u search the diet forum and pick up some basic supps. SUre u might not be at ur goal by summer or next week but i assure u wont be by using aas either.

I'm 7-8% bf. My problem has always been that I don't want to get over 9-10. It's hard to get big and stay lean at the same time, at least with a tall/thin frame. I graduated high school at 6'1" and 160 lbs. I've done various supps and see minimal gains that are soon lost. Most supps are too expensive. Nitric oxide supps make me shit within 20 minutes of eating. All the good shit has been banned. If prohormones were still readily available, I'd be doing those. When it comes to most supps (protein being one major exception), I'd rather spend my money on food and one or two cycles a year at this point.

[Mr.Clean69]

Search "Front Loading"

[c16veins]

I've heard a lot about deca in the past. I've known a few guys that have done deca/sus/d-bol stacks. I've been reading more about deca today. I'm very enticed by it's high anabolic content in relation to estrogenic and androgenic sides.

If all goes well with a first cycle of test, I would strongly consider deca during a second cycle. At that point I'll have to decide whether to run sus all the way thru with it, and 2 weeks thereafter... OR run test prop and then test cyp towards the end because of the longer ester which will carry me about 2 weeks after deca. In either case, I'll definately do a pct for my first test cycle and 2nd possible cycle of test/deca. Damn that test/deca cycle will be expensive though, considering how much more test will be required with deca.

[c16veins]

Search "Front Loading"

Your point? .... someone said to tell your 5'10"/160 lb friend to wait a few years and put on some weight. FFWD 5 years and you have me at 190 lbs. Ok so I'm 4 inches taller, but all my weight is in my upper body. My legs are puny and won't grow [that's a whole nother violin ]. No one believes I weigh 190 when wearing pants ... everyone guesses 200-205. I've had a dozen or so people tell me that I'm a perfect candidate for steroids . I've ignored them for a couple years now. And no, these aren't the people that are selling steroids.

[Phate]

how old are you?

[c16veins]

how old are you?

27 in about a month.

[Phate]

answer these questions so we can understand this a bit better

how long do you want to run your cycle?

what exactly do you want/expect from it?

do you think your diet is good enough for a cycle right now?

what pct would you use for a test only first cycle?

[bodybuilder1107]

hit test e with a prop kickstart that waould be a much better first cycle

[c16veins]

answer these questions so we can understand this a bit better

how long do you want to run your cycle?

what exactly do you want/expect from it?

do you think your diet is good enough for a cycle right now?

what pct would you use for a test only first cycle?

Originally I was thinking 6 wk max, but after further research, I'm not really opposed to 8-12 wks.

I'd like to gain 20 pounds and keep 12-15 at least. I'd like to put 50 lbs on my max bench during cycle. I'd be satisfied if I kept 30 of that.

I try to take in 3500+ calories a day. Sample workout day is:

7:00 am
2 eggs, 2 egg whites, 16 oz. orange juice

8:00 am
1 cup oatmeal with 1 banana

10:30 am
4 slices of turkey breast, 2 slices lowfat swiss, 2 slices whole grain bread
orange

12:30 pm
1 cup whole grain pasta, 6-8 oz of 93% lean beef or chicken
1 cup broccoli

2:30 pm
1/2 avacado
1/2 can albacore tuna
2 slices whole grain bread

3:30 pm
20g whey protein with 6 oz water

4:00-5:30 workout

5:45 pm
40g whey protein, 1 banana, 16 oz 1% milk

6:30 pm
8 oz chicken breast or 93% lean beef (opposite of 12:30 meal)
1 cup broccoli or green beans
1 sweet potato

9:00 pm
1 cup lowfat cottage cheese
2 tbsp all natural peanut butter

PCT - probably Arimidex , unless otherwise directed

[Phate]

write out your macros for all that, it's hard i know but worth it

[skinnykenney]

Search "Front Loading"

front loading is a big waste.... it does not make the test hit your system faster!....

[burnin69]

front loading is a big waste.... it does not make the test hit your system faster!....

it puts more free test in the blood, since the first couple weeks your body is building the level up.

[c16veins]

It's been awhile since I charted all that. I'm trying to find it. I know I did my best to keep it at 30% protein, 50% carbs, 20% fats (with about 5% saturated).

[c16veins]

Just checked my bf% estimate on this site: http://www.healthcentral.com/cholest...-2774-143.html

Age: 27
Weight: 190
Waist: 32
Hips: 38
Forearm: 13.5
Wrist: 7.5

Results:

Your Results

You have 3% body fat.

You have 5.7 Pounds of fat and 184.3 Pounds of lean (muscle, bone, body water).

[TJM7275]

Dude, Is this your first cycle???? If so you should run a Test only cycle. You should not be stacking anything if this is your first cycle. The reason I say this is because you will be injecting a foreign substance into your body and everyones body reacts different If you go and take some time to read the forum you will notice that all the Vets/Mods reccomend doing this. Steroids are not magic pills and you will not look like Jay Cutler in 4 weeks. I would stay natural if I were you, do some more reading and learning. Then when you feel you have reached your limit, then consider Juice. But if your hell bent on running a cycle, I wuould stick with the CYP. Run it at 500mgs a week for at least 10 to 12 weeks. Its a great Steroid in my opinion and I always see mild sides from it.

[c16veins]

If you read again, I stated that my first cycle would be cyp and a possible second [over the winter or next year] would be test/deca (either cyp/prop/deca or sus/deca).

[TJM7275]

Yeah I got that guy... I was trying to be helpful but since you seem to know it all have fun with that.

[Phate]

Just checked my bf% estimate on this site: http://www.healthcentral.com/cholest...-2774-143.html

Age: 27
Weight: 190
Waist: 32
Hips: 38
Forearm: 13.5
Wrist: 7.5

Results:

well i doubt that you are 3% bf, those tests are accurate, but they operate on a bell-curve of sorts, as people that are very low bf can get results up to 5% under their real bf%

not saying that you're not low bf, but i would say that you're probably around 5-7%, though a pic would help alot

[c16veins]

Yeah I got that guy... I was trying to be helpful but since you seem to know it all have fun with that.

When did I say I know it all? Some of what you said was helpful. But this wasn't necessary:

Steroids are not magic pills and you will not look like Jay Cutler in 4 weeks.

It's pretty f'd up that many of you guys judge every newcomer to the board in the same fashion... IF YOU'RE NOT 35 YEARS OLD AND WEIGH 250+ THEN WORK HARDER, EAT BETTER, RESEARCH.

I've done what I can to prove my candidacy for what I would like to do. The campaign ends here. Again, advice and experience are greatly appreciated. But I'm done trying to remove the "dumbass" tag that many of you place on newcomers.

[c16veins]

well i doubt that you are 3% bf, those tests are accurate, but they operate on a bell-curve of sorts, as people that are very low bf can get results up to 5% under their real bf%

not saying that you're not low bf, but i would say that you're probably around 5-7%, though a pic would help alot

I agree. I've measured before and usually come out about 7%.

[TwoGuns]

tell it like it is c16veins!!

[yankeefan]

When did I say I know it all? Some of what you said was helpful. But this wasn't necessary:


It's pretty f'd up that many of you guys judge every newcomer to the board in the same fashion... IF YOU'RE NOT 35 YEARS OLD AND WEIGH 250+ THEN WORK HARDER, EAT BETTER, RESEARCH.

I've done what I can to prove my candidacy for what I would like to do. The campaign ends here. Again, advice and experience are greatly appreciated. But I'm done trying to remove the "dumbass" tag that many of you place on newcomers.

well said. who the f*** wants to got to a forum to get shit talked. we are all here for info!

[c16veins]

Which is more advisable:

test cyp with dbol to get things rolling?

OR

just test prop?

[xXDevilDogXx]

i like the test cyp with dbol kickstart much better. Less frequent pins too (and I like pinning!!!)

[TJM7275]

Lets get one thing straight here C16... Nobody is talking shit. And nobody here is going to plan out a cycle for you. I asked if it was your first cycle and instead of just saying yeah man, you come back with that remark " well if you read again". Nobody is bashing you and what I said about steroids , magic beans, and Jay Cutler was NOT a shot at you. Everyday people join the boards with no cycle experience and either want a cycle planned out for them or something. Thats not a good way to start. You will hurt yourself and lose your gains. You don't have to prove anything other than you have done the research so that you will be safe. You have not even commited to a PCT. You put up some questions about it but nothing set in stone. If you did that we could help and say hey man try this instead of that. I really do not think you have done all the research you can, BUT.... As I said... Run the CYP at 500mgs a week for 12 weeks. You should always run a Test only cycle for a first one to see how your body will react. If you do that, eat clean you should see some decent gains. I stongley reccomend before starting you comit to a Proper PCT

[c16veins]

.25mg Arimidex and 20mg Nolvadex post cycle. Just gotta figure out how long to run them now.

[TJM7275]

Well have you checked the PCT forum??? And I'm not saying this to bash a Newbie. All you new guys have access to a great amount of knowledge. Just gotta lean how to use it.

[Phate]

Lets get one thing straight here C16... Nobody is talking shit. And nobody here is going to plan out a cycle for you. I asked if it was your first cycle and instead of just saying yeah man, you come back with that remark " well if you read again". Nobody is bashing you and what I said about steroids , magic beans, and Jay Cutler was NOT a shot at you. Everyday people join the boards with no cycle experience and either want a cycle planned out for them or something. Thats not a good way to start. You will hurt yourself and lose your gains. You don't have to prove anything other than you have done the research so that you will be safe. You have not even commited to a PCT. You put up some questions about it but nothing set in stone. If you did that we could help and say hey man try this instead of that. I really do not think you have done all the research you can, BUT.... As I said... Run the CYP at 500mgs a week for 12 weeks. You should always run a Test only cycle for a first one to see how your body will react. If you do that, eat clean you should see some decent gains. I stongley reccomend before starting you comit to a Proper PCT

good point, c16veins, time to research, and i'm gonna be nice and make it really easy for you, here ya go, read all the links and you'll be good to go

DIET HELP

here is the diet that i'm on right now, it's a good base to go off of, listed below are things to help you create your own diet off it

1) One thing that will help you drastically is called carb tapering, if you notice the bulk of my carbs are in the morning and after my workout, i don't eat hardly any close to when i go to sleep

2) Another thing is that eat meal is either protein/carb or protein/fat and the fats are good fats(EFA=Essential fatty acids) from flax oil or fish oil. Try not to eat fat with carbs as the fat will become, well, fat since your body is made to be energy efficient, by putting carbs, which are easier to break down for energy, in the same meal as fats your body stores the fat for later and uses the carbs for energy, not what you want.

3) try to eat every 2-3 hours, this is the amount of time it takes for your body to digest a meal and by giving it a constant stream of food you will ensure that your metabolism is kept high, also, calories are not the same, protein has the highest thermodynamic effect, which means that it takes more calories to digest protein than carbs or fat, this also increases your metabolism

4) You should try to get at least 50-60g of protein in every meal, this is about the max your body can take at one time

5) here are some tricks for making eating so often easier, i know it's hard, i go to school 8 hours a day and i'm not allowed to bring food into class so i have to work around that
a) Make a weeks worth of food on your day off, go buy a ton of chicken, lean turkey and very lean beef and grill it, then put it in ziplock bags and label with the amount of calories and protein per bag, YOU WILL NEED TO BUY A CHEAP SCALE FOR THIS, YOU CAN GET THEM AT GNC, MAKE SURE YOU GET ONE THAT WEIGHS IN GRAMS.
b) save grocery sacks or get a lunch box and put a full three meals or so in there, lots of chicken, jerky, tuna, those are gonna be the staples of your diet

6) Don't drink more than two protein shakes a day, there are liquid and don't have the thermic effect normal food does, normal food should make up 95% of your diet, though a shake after workout or in a pinch is perfectly fine

that should get you started, i'm sure you'll still have questions so just keep posting and i'll help you however i can, i'll be in austin though for the next couple days for a state competition, though i'll try to get on at the hotel if you post and answer when i can, here's the diet i'm on to model after

Meal 1 - 5 egg whites (cal 80, pro18), Oats 80g (cal295 carb51 pro12 fat5), 1scoop whey (cal112, carb2.5, pro23, fat1.5). sprinkle cinnamon. TOTALS - Cal 485, carbs 53 pro 50, Fat 6.5

WORKOUT

PWO - 2 scoop whey (cal224, carb5, pro46, fat3), WMS 80g (cal280 carb68) TOTALS – Cal519, carbs73, pro58 fat 3

PPWO - Tuna 1/2 tin (cal 72,carb0 pro15 ), Oats 80g (cal295 carb51 pro12 fat4) 1scoop whey (cal112, carb2.5, pro23, fat1.5) TOTALS – cal480 carbs53 pro50 fat5.5

meal 4 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) Coconut Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS – cal372, pro54, fat14

Meal 5 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) Flax Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS – cal372, pro54, fat14

Meal 6 - 175g chicken (cal289 pro54 fat5) hemp Oil (cal83 fat9g) TOTALS – cal372, pro54, fat14

Before Bed – Lean Mince200g (cal328 pro51 fat12) TOTALS cal328 pro51 fat12

DAILY TOTAL Cal 2928Carbs 179 Protein 360 fat 68.5

Each chicken meal served with a handful of fibrous green veg bringing carbs to approx 200g per day in total.

DIET 2

Macros: Food/Calories/Protein-Carbs-Fat

Meal 1: 60g Oatmeal/225cal/8gP-41gC-2gF
turkey (99/1)/260/54gP-0gC-3gF
2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

Meal 2: 40g Oatmeal/150cal/5gP-27gC-1.5gF
turkey (99/1)/260/54gP-0gC-3gF
2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

Meal 3: 40g Oatmeal/150cal/5gP-27gC-1.5gF
beef (96/4)/300/50gP-0gC-8gF
2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

Meal 4: 10mL flax oil 90cal/0gP-0gC-10gF
beef (96/4)/300/50gP-0gC-8gF
2 Tbsp Mayo light 40cal/0gP-2gC-3gF

Meal 5: 10mL fish oil 90cal/0gP-0gC-10gF
Tuna 170cal/42gP-0gC-0gF
3.5 Tbsp Mayo light 70/0gP-4gC-5gF

Meal 6: Tuna 170cal/42gP-0gC-0gF
3.5 Tbsp Mayo light 70/0gP-4gC-5gF
beef or turkey 150cal/25gP-0gC-4gF

macros:Calories: 2615
Protein: 335
Carbs: 111
Fats: 74


TEST BEGINNER CYCLE INFO

here, i'll lay out some stuff for you,
first thing, you need to get your diet in check, here is some threads on cutting, lean bulking and pure bulking to give you some info, but you need to post your diet for critiqueing, your wasting your money otherwise

Diet

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=113010
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=75729
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=143553
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/calories/calories.html

only when you have your diet down should you think about cycling, a beginner cycle should look like this

1-12 test e 500mg/week
1-4 dbol 40mg/day ( this is used to kickstart the cycle and is optional)

take your test injections 3.5 days apart, like monday morning and thursday evening

split your dbol up throughout the day, this will keep your blood levels stable, which means less sides and more gains

if you take the dbol, supplement with liv52 to help you liver cope with breaking down the dbol

btw, here are the profiles on the AS you will be using so read them and get to know the stuff your putting in your body

Test Enth
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199827

Dianabol
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199829

Next is your pct, which should begin two weeks after your last test injection and should be a phneedo's pct, whats that you ask? here it is

Pheendo's PCT
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94626

while your at it read this one as well for future cycles

Anthony Roberts PCT
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758


Now for some other important stuff, you need to have some arimidex on hand in case you start getting water retention or gyno, so get some, in fact, read this thread 3x before you start your cycle as it will tell you....

All You Need To Know About Gyno

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=236880

that should get you read for your cycle, best of luck

[TJM7275]

Phate my friend.... you are wise way beyond your years buddy. You cant always hold there hands though bro.

[Phate]

Phate my friend.... you are wise way beyond your years buddy. You cant always hold there hands though bro.

yeah i know, but at least i feel better knowing i did all i can do, i guess it kinda stems from volunteering in ICU(Intensive Care Unit), since i was 15, i see people die every week, right in my arms, and i wonder if there was something i can do, at least here i have the ability to help, so i'll try if i can

good point though

[c16veins]

phate186:

I have posted a sample day of my diet. I only switch it up by switching the chicken/beef for lunch/dinner. I really need to find or re-calculate the macros I worked out for that diet.

Your diet looks helpful. I'm curious to see how close mine comes when I calculate the macros again.

Test E huh? I don't know why I wasn't considering it. Like I said earlier, I was between cyp+dbol or prop by itself.

I've read a good amount from PCT forum and was getting set on arimidex +nolvadex pct (starting 2 weeks after like you said). After reading C_Bino's post, I'm leaning towards running letro with my cycle and then nolvadex pct.

[xXDevilDogXx]

I've read a good amount from PCT forum and was getting set on arimidex+nolvadex pct (starting 2 weeks after like you said). After reading C_Bino's post, I'm leaning towards running letro with my cycle and then nolvadex pct.

No need for the letro.

Stick with the a-dex and nolva.



Run the nolva for at least 4 weeks. Something like 40,40,20,20, or 40,20,20,20, or 40,20,20,10. You get the picture.

[Phate]

phate186:

I have posted a sample day of my diet. I only switch it up by switching the chicken/beef for lunch/dinner. I really need to find or re-calculate the macros I worked out for that diet.

Your diet looks helpful. I'm curious to see how close mine comes when I calculate the macros again.

Test E huh? I don't know why I wasn't considering it. Like I said earlier, I was between cyp+dbol or prop by itself.

I've read a good amount from PCT forum and was getting set on arimidex+nolvadex pct (starting 2 weeks after like you said). After reading C_Bino's post, I'm leaning towards running letro with my cycle and then nolvadex pct.

cyp and enth are almost identical so either could be run, enth is the most commonly used first cycle ester so that why i picked it for this article