Plateau Assistance Requested

[AbbieM]

Plateau Assistance Requested


Stats
Resident Western USA
Age 28
Female
Height 5’3”
Workout Time line 2 years
Starting weight 190 LBS
Starting BF% 39
Staring size 20
Current Weight 132 LBS
Current BF% 32
Current size 4
Supplements
Fish Oil, Multivitamin, ECCA’s, Cranberry, B complex, and Chromium Picolinate
Dedicated Women’s Whey Protein Powder
Creatine
Diet
Meal 1 Protein shake Fruit
Meal 2 1 serving meat (lean turkey, chicken), ½ cup brown rice
Meal 3 Protein Shake
Meal 4 Fruit, green vegetable
Meal 5 serving meat (lean turkey, fish, chicken) ½ cup brown rice or wheat pasta
Meal 6 Protein Shake
Meal 7 an occasional protein bar (cliff builders or snickers)
Workout Schedule
Tuesday-Sunday Lifting one muscle group per day 45-50minutes, 20-30 minutes cardio
Monday OFF
Problem
Goal to lower BF % to 15-20% and gain lean muscle mass/strength.
Attempt 1
In addition to diet and exercise; took one cycle of CLEN for 12 weeks with no results no decrease in BF % or Weight in LBS
Attempt 2
In addition to diet and exercise; engaging in current cycle of Winstrol Stanozol 100mg/ml taking .5ml ED at bed time on day 13 have seen no decrease in BF %, weight in pounds or inches lost.
Request
Need some advice as to changes I can make in Winstrol dosage, diet, exercise, supplements; any advice anyone is willing to offer to so I can get some results.
Through experience how long will it take to see results? Decrease in weight, BF% or inches.

[JiGGaMaN]

Please dont use anabolics to cut body fat. Please.

[N*E*R*D]

women shouldnt take steroids

[JiGGaMaN]

Especially @ 350mg/wk. You are using the wrong type of drugs to lose weight. I'm not going to steer you toward any recreational drugs, but you might find it a good idea to talk to a doctor about it. They will more than likely script you something to help you out. Also, STOP USING ANABOLICS IMMEDIATELY.

[magic32]

Let me begin by saying that your discipline, fervor and results are to be commended!
- 58lbs and a size 20 to a 4 is stellar!

However, you appear to possess some fundamental flaws in understanding:

• aas do NOT assist in the reduction of body weight, quite the contrary actually...they are effectively used to gain muscle/weight.
• aas are NOT very effective at higher bf levels, when cutting is desired, and this is especially true for certain compounds such as the one in question.
  
  The plateau exists because although the basic principles for obesity and non-obesity weight and bf loss are the same, there are indeed subtle nuisances:
  
  
• even though your diet is disciplined, it is far to supplementally-based, or LACKING IN WHOLE FOODS...the liquid effect will no longer greatly impact you as before, one shake daily and an occasional bar are more than sufficient. Your diet should be evolving away from the, formerly effective transient repair, to one more reflective of a lifestyle change. Start enjoying real food again...lean, light and often.
• now that you're within the realm of normalcy you have to make homeostatic changes (both in intake and expenditure), i.e. reset your body's set-point (level of metabolic comfort). Make ONLY minor daily dietary subtractive adjustments (no more than 300 cals for a woman), else you'll incite a metabolic slow down that is wholly contrary. Expenditure-wise, significantly increase and change your cardio. If done at the end as is most often the case, add a 20min to the beginning (studies have shown that up to 30 mins of pre-workout cardio can be done w/o hindering strength or endurance), if at the start then tack onto the end, if divided simply increase both by 15 mins. Also, be sure to diversify your cardio work. This can be dramatic like sprinting or jumping rope, or more subtle like varying machine types (bike, stairs, tread, ellipt), and should include changes in intensity like interval training or HIIP, all of which serve to shock your workout and obliterate adaptation. Remember the body doesn't want to be obese so losing that was more a matter of mental resolve, but manipulating resistant normal bodily preferences...that puts you in the Majors!

Additionally, I'd be interested in knowing your Clen protocol (dosage & frequency), and to assist in determining authenticity, the side effects you incurred. With your work ethic this compound should be invaluable, though on that subject, consider increasing intensity (1 body part in 50mins is somewhat slow unless you're gregarious), also contemplate working two body parts a day should your schedule permit it, but be sure to keep track of what is to be rested when. A general, with sound intensity a four-exercise/three-set workout should be completed in around 30-35 minutes, unless you're going very heavy (requiring more recovery) which shouldn't be the case.

Plateaus can be tough, but keep your head up!
Best to you.

[AbbieM]

thank you for the great advice, i will heed the warnings and will ensure i continue to educate myself. having this stick in my weight and body fat % is very discouraging, thank you for your kind words, i know how i want to look and i am not even close. The clen i took was 20mg each pill and i started with 20 then up'ed by 20 a day till reached the 120 mark then back down, two weeks on two weeks off. For a total of 12 weeks, side effects well. shaking like i seizing was the biggest side effect. That of course began to slow down the longer i took the drug. The winstrol has given me pain, swelling, bloating no decrease in weight or BF%. checked again today weight 131.8, hips 36, waist 27, wrist 6, forearm 9 BF using electronic and online calc 31.2%. Very discouraging numbers. I will heed the advice you have taken so much of your time to offer, thank you very kindly. I am becoming very discouraged and its difficult to accept that this is as good as i have gotten after all the work, pain and what i thought was right... I feel as though i have no idea now? Should i stop the winstrol? any changes in supplements? how many protein shakes is optimal? or this is just a cardio issue? increase cardio, i rest 1 minute between sets lift fairly heavy and work very hard sweating within minutes of entry to the gym each evening. I drink a protein shake as i leave the gym and then go home and eat a serving of meat and usually brown rice and broccoli. Try to eat nothing else after that. getting a gallon of water a day.
Have come far and im not where i want to but sure as hell not where i used to be, i simply assumed after all the money, time, pain and energy put in to this i would be much further than i am today.
thanks again Cheers

[killagorilla187]

I suggest going on ketogenic diet, drop all carbs and your body will be forced to eat its bodyfat as fuel. Do cardio on empty stomach first thing in the morning, you could take a fat burner before as well to help oxidize fat.

[AbbieM]

great thought i think the am cardio is a consensus!

[Yankeebstrd]

Wow Magic, that was an incredible post.

[magic32]

Should i stop the winstrol ?
YES, AS STATED ABOVE THIS IS CONTRADICTORY TO YOUR GOAL. WOMEN, AND MEN FOR THAT MATTER WHO ARE CLOSE TO THEIR GOALS, USE THIS COMPOUND FOR HARDENING AND THAT DRIER QUALITY MUSCLE APPEARANCE…NOT TO REDUCE BF WHILE IN THE 30% RANGE.

any changes in supplements?
YOURS LOOK GOOD, BUT REMEMBER SUPPLEMENTS ARE JUST THAT…SUPPLEMENTARY NOT PRIMARY. HOWEVER, YOU MIGHT CONSIDER KILLA’S FAT BURNER RECOMMENDATION ALONG WITH SOME L-CARNITINE FOR GREATER FAT MOBILIZATION. ALSO, CHECK TO SEE IF YOUR FISH OIL IS COMPLETE CONTAINING O M E G A’S 3,6 & 9 (GLA AND CLA OPTIONAL) AND DON’T OVER DO THIS SUPPLEMENT, TOO MUCH OF ANYTHING IS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. UDO’S OIL IS THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE I’VE SEEN AND USED: http://www.florahealth.com/flora/hom...cts/R67980.asp

how many protein shakes is optimal?
AGAIN, AT YOUR STAGE YOU SHOULD BE PHASING OUT THE LIQUID DIET TECHNIQUE FOR CALORIE REDUCTION, IN FAVOR OF ACTUAL FOODS.

or this is just a cardio issue?
AS EXPLAINED IN MY FIRST POST, THE TWO ARE INEXTRICABLY LINKED. THINK OF DIET (CALORIE CONTROL) AS PRIMARY WHICH CAUSES THE BODY TO DRAW FROM THE SUPPLY HOUSE, WEIGHT TRAINING AS SECONDARY BECAUSE OF ITS MUSCLE BUILDING AND RESHAPING ABILITY, AND AEROBIC (CARDIO) ACTIVITY AS TERTIARY TO AUGMENT THE CALORIE DEFICIT CREATED BY DIET WITHOUT TRIPPING THE BODY'S UNDER-EATING ALARMS. EACH SHOULD BE USED OFTEN AND EXTENSIVELY TO RESET THE YOUR HOMEOSTATIC SET POINT, THEREBY INCREASING METABOLIC RATE.

increase cardio, i rest 1 minute between sets lift fairly heavy and work very hard
SOUNDS GOOD, THE "1-MINUTE" RULE IS EFFECTIVE SO IF YOU’RE STILL TAKING 50 MINS FOR ONE BODY PART ITS LIKELY THAT YOUR ROUTINE IS TOO LENGTHY (CONTAINS TOO MANY EXERCISES, SETS, AND/OR REPS). WHEN ASKED HOW LONG TO REST BETWEEN SETS ARNOLD'S BUDDY AND RUNNER-UP, THE GREAT FRANCO COLUMBO (MR. O. 1976) REPLIED, “JUST ENOUGH TIME TO CATCH YOUR BREATH.” I’VE FOUND THIS SUBSTANTIAL AS WELL, SO RECOVERY MAY OCCUR AT 30 SECONDS OR 45!

sweating within minutes of entry to the gym each evening.
THIS COULD INDEED TESTIFY TO YOUR WORKOUT INTENSITY, BUT IT COULD ALSO ATTEST TO THE HUMIDITY IN YOUR GYM, THE FRUGAL USE OF AIR CONDITIONING, OR A COMBINATION FACTORS.

I drink a protein shake as i leave the gym and then go home and eat a serving of meat and usually brown rice and broccoli.
THIS IS A GOOD PHILOSOPHY BUT AGAIN REMEMBER THAT MONITORING TOTAL CALORIC INTAKE IS MORE IMPORTANT NOW THAN FORMERLY. DON’T OVEREAT FOR THE SAKE OF A GIVEN PHILOSOPHICAL SYSTEM, IF YOUR WORKOUT IS LATE AND A SHAKE IS SUFFICIENT THEN CONCLUDE WITH IT.

Try to eat nothing else after that.
THE “I DON’T EAT AFTER A GIVEN TIME OF DAY” PHILOSOPHY IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST MYTHOLOGICAL HINDRANCES TO WEIGHT LOSS, AND TRAINING IN GENERAL. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS FACTOR ENOUGH:

WHENEVER YOUR BODY IS HUNGRY/REQUIRES FUEL,
YOU SHOULD FEED/FUEL IT!

THE KEY IS TO PROVIDE THE BEST TYPE OF FUEL FOR THE SITUATION, YOU’LL NEED TO LEARN WHAT FOODS ARE MOST APPROPRIATE WHEN.
FOR EXAMPLE:

• SUGAR CRAVINGS - FRUITS, GUM, HARD CANDY
• QUICK MID-DAY ENERGY/CARB CRAVINGS - COMPLEX CARBS (PLAIN POPCORN, NUTS & BEANS)
• BEDTIME OR LATE NIGHT SNACKING - SIMPLE CARBS (CERTAIN FRUITS) & LOW CAL PROTEINS (FF YOGURT)

getting a gallon of water a day.
TOO MUCH!

THIS PHILOSOPHY WAS BIRTHED OUT OF THE FACT THAT WATER DISPLACES SPACE THEREBY TRICKING THE HYPOTHALAMUS SENSOR MONITORING VOLUME AND FULLNESS IN THE STOMACH (FIBER TABS CAN ALSO BE USED) AND THE SAME GOES FOR GUM WITH THE MOUTH SENSOR MONITORING CHEWING, AND FLUIDS WITHIN THE THROAT MONITORING SWALLOWING. THESE SENSORS NEED TIME TO RELAY MESSAGES BACK TO THE BRAIN IN ORDER FOR IT TO IN TURN SIGNAL SATIATION. THIS IS WHY CHEWING THOROUGHLY AND EATING SLOWLY ARE IMPORTANT HABITS. TOO MUCH FLUID AT MEALTIME DILUTES DIGESTIVE ENZYMES AND REDUCES ABSORPTION RATES, WHICH IS WHY YOU SHOULDN’T DRINK WITH YOUR MEAL, BUT RATHER A SMALL AMOUNT AFTERWARDS. TOO MUCH TOTAL DAILY WATER DOES A GOOD JOB OF FLUSHING THE SYSTEM, ONE OF THE BENEFITS AAS USERS ENJOY, BUT IT ALSO INCREASES GENERAL RETENTION WHICH IS WHY AS A BB’ER NEARS CONTEST TIME HE REDUCES WATER INTAKE BECAUSE THE MORE YOU CONSUME THE MORE YOU HOLD (TO A POINT).

IN TRUTH HYDRATION HAS FAR LESS TO DO WITH WATER INTAKE AND MUCH MORE TO WITH THE RATIOS OF BODY SALTS, AND PRIMARY ELECTROLYTES (SODIUM, MAGNESIUM AND POTASSIUM), THE DECLINE OR ABSENCE OF WHICH PROMOTES DEHYDRATION DUE TO THE INABILITY TO ADEQUATELY SUSTAIN FLUID LEVELS. IN OTHER WORDS, CERTAINLY GET YOUR NECESSARY DAILY ALLOTMENT (8-10 GLASSES) BUT YOU CAN STOP OVERDOING IT NOW. ALSO DOWNING SOME GATOR-/POWERADE IS A GOOD PRACTICE AT THIS TIME.

I WROTE EXTENSIVELY ON THIS AND MANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS IN MY PIECE “TOTAL FITNESS AND THE FEMALE BODY” FOR THE WOMEN’S FORUM ON THIS SITE, BUT AFTER COMMISSIONING AND PURCHASING IT, INSTEAD OF KEEPING IT INTACT AND HYPERLINKING THE TOPICS FOR RAPID ACCESS SKIPPING AS I SUGGESTED, BRIAN CHOSE TO DISASSEMBLE IT AND POST SECTIONS SEPARATELY THROUGHOUT THE FORUM. IT WAS A VERY COMPREHENSIVE 55-PAGER, THE COMPILATION OF BOTH BASIC HUMAN BIO/PHYSIO, AND A WEALTH OF INHERENTLY FEMALE-SPECIFIC NUTRITION AND TRAINING INFORMATION FROM ACCOMPLISHED BB'ERS, FITNESS COMPETITORS, EXPERT TRAINERS, AND MY OWN KNOWLEDGE BASE. I'LL POST THE TABLE OF CONTENTS BELOW, AS YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND SECTIONS OF IT BY MY GIVEN TITLES.

AGAIN TRAINING, SUPPLEMENTATION AND MULTIPLE MEALS, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE ALL STILL COMPONENTS, ARE NO LONGER YOUR PRIMARY CONCERNS. NOW (IN YOUR POST-OBESITY/BF REDUCING PHASE) THE EMPHASIS IS ON FINDING, UTILIZING AND MANIPULATING YOUR IDEAL OVERALL CALORIC INTAKE AMOUNT. THERE ARE SCALES THAT USE VARIABLE (AGE, HT, WT, ACTIVENESS, ETC.) FORMULAS TO CALCULATE THIS, BUT YOU CAN DO A BETTER JOB BY SLOWLY REDUCING CONSUMPTION AND MONITORING YOUR RESULTS, BUT AGAIN BE WEARY OF GOING TO LOW. YOU SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON COAXING STORED FAT OUT OF THE CELLS THROUGH DIET AND TRAINING. ACHIEVING THIS SLIGHTLY BELOW MAINTENANCE CALORIC INTAKE LEVEL, COUPLED WITH PROPER TRAINING/REST, FORCES THE BODY TO TAX STORED FAT RESERVES FOR ENERGY, CONSEQUENTLY LOWERING BF.

i suggest going on ketogenic diet, drop all carbs and your body will be forced to eat its bodyfat as fuel. Do cardio on empty stomach first thing in the morning, you could take a fat burner before as well to help oxidize fat.

Ketogenic diets, or any regimen that severely restricts macro-nutrients are undesirable when long-term change is the goal. Their application is best administered for events, i.e. Weddings, vacations, contests, etc. Once the macro is restored, and it should be because of the numerous dietary deficiencies, so is homeostatic normalcy. However, i do agree with your fat burner (especially eca) recommendation, and i am a staunch proponent of fasting state (morning empty stomach) cardio’s ability to more readily access stored fat.

-------------------

TOTAL FITNESS AND THE FEMALE BODY

TABLE OF CONTENTS
I. INTRODUCTION

II. THE COMPONENTS & HIERARCHY OF FITNESS
A. Diet
B. Weight training
C. Cardio activity

III. BASICS OF NUTRITION
A. Definitions and explanations
1. Diet, Calorie, How the hypothalamus works and ways to trick it
2. INSERT SECTION – “Garcina Cambogia and appetite suppression”
3. What are protein, carbs (simple and complex), fats (saturated,
unsaturated, trans fatty acids) & why we need them

III. HOW TO EAT FOR MUSCLE
A. General information
1. Education, methods, tips
2. Protein - Best sources
3. How to select a protein drink
4. INSERT SECTION - "Most Popular Supplements" chosen by
female competitors
5. Carbohydrates - Best sources
6. Fats - Best sources

IV. AEROBIC/CARDIOVASCULAR EXERCISE
A. Introduction
B. Tips on training
C. How much is necessary?
1. To lose fat
2. To gain weight
3. For improving cardiovascular fitness
D. That type of cardio should be done?
1. To lose fat
2. For improving cardiovascular fitness
E. Maximum heart rate
1. What is it?
2. How is it calculated?
3. How to measure exercise intensity
F. Target heart rate
1. How to determine it
G. Addressing the low intensity training = fat loss myth
1. The theory
2. Why it's untrue
3. Formulas that disprove the myth
H. Diversifying cardio activities
1. Classifies, describes and provides examples for various cardio
activities

V. PRE-WORK OUT
A. STRETCHING
1. Basic types of stretches & purposes
B. INSERT SECTION – “Research on Stretching”
C. Warm-up cardio
D. Warm-up weight training

VI. WEIGHT TRAINING
A. Addressing the two main questions women ask
1. Won’t lifting weights make me big and bulky?
2. What is best, machines or free weights?
B. Muscle building
1. Difference between weightlifting and muscle building
2. Components of muscle stimulation/breakdown
a. Amount
b. Intensity
c. Consistency
3. Protein & Rest
a. The mortars for muscle repair and growth
C. INSERT SECTION - Weight training "Rules of Thumb"
1. How to lift for strength
2. How to lift for mass
3. How to lift for definition
4. How to determine the number of exercises and sets per body part
5. How to determine the proper lifting amount/weights
D. Developing a program
1. Introduction - Different types of programs for different training goals
2. Examples of the split training programs
3. Explicitly detailed 'Two Body Parts' program
a. Breaks down workout by body part / muscle group
b. Cites basic number of sets and reps
c. Identifies specific areas (muscle heads) worked within the
group
E. Principles of weight training
1. Introduction
2. Eleven of the Weider principles of training
a. Identifies the principles
b. Identifies how they are performed
c. Matches levels of training with appropriate principles
F. Finishing exercises
1. Specialized exercises for stubborn trouble areas & how to perform
them
a. Glutes
b. Hips
c. Thighs
G. Overtraining
1. Understanding it
2. How it occurs
3. Identifying it
4. How to prevent it
5. Ways to treat it

VII. FAT BURNERS & RESEARCH CHEMICALS
A. Introduction
B. Ephedra, Central Nervous System Stimulants (Ephedra alternatives),
Clenbuterol , Cytomel
1. What they are, what they do, and how to properly use them

VIII. STEROIDS
A. Introduction
B. Section on variables of concern when using steroids
1. Protein consumption
2. Overall calorie consumption
3. Muscle fiber breakdown
4. Steroid administration (dosage, timing & duration)
C. Some reasons women take steroids
1. Self-Image
2. Victimization
3. Competition
D. Preparing for AAS
1. Using a doctor
2. Going it alone
3. Tests and labs for baseline measures
E. Benefits of using AAS
F. Possible steroid side effects
G. How to use steroids
1. Background
a. Steroids are not supplements
b. Definition of the steroid cycle
c. How to determine dosage and duration
d. Definition of the steroid stack/cocktail
2. Guidelines
a. Steroids are not for fat/weight loss
b. Optimal gains require a solid foundation
c. There is no need to taper dosages
d. If Testosterone is desired, Propionate may be best for
women
H. Best AAS for women
1. Introduction
2. Proven protocols
3. Proven cycles

IX. FEMALE AAS RESEARCH
A. Women are a relatively new addition to the steroid scene
B. There are a very few medical journal studies in this area
1. Many are inconclusive and poorly developed
a. Inadequate instrumentation and measurement
b. Small sample sizes and insubstantial control and placebo
C. Incongruent male/female comparisons
1. Conjectural (speculative) results
2. Inaccurate results

[magic32]

For those interested my above cited work is now available on the homepage under "Women and Steroids ".

[PT]

your the man magic

[T_Own]

wow. that was long.
i'll say good job losing the weight, but i find it hard to believe you can lose 58 pounds and only 7%bf