1st Cycle in 10 years...thought's please

**birddogg** · 07-30-2008, 06:51 PM

Guys, first time poster. Love the site.

Stats
Age -32
Weight - 170lbs
Height -5'10"
BF - 13%
Workout - Moderate/4-5 days a week
Diet - Decent (No sugar or salt, maybe 4000 calories a day, 150-200 grams of protein a day)

Make a long story short, did 2 Deca cycles back in the mid to late 90's when I was 20-21 yrs. old. Did not stack with any test nor did I run a PCT. Fortunately I didn't have any issues/side effects at the time. With both cycles I had decent gains of 8-12 lbs, obviously they didn't last.
Lifted off and on since.
Started lifting pretty seriously (I'm sure not nearly as serious as most on this site) for the last 14 months. Did the creatine thing, etc..no real gains.

Recently got a hold of some Deca and was planning on doing that alone (until I came across this site!) I'm certain that my body can't handle a shut down like it did when I was 20 so I'm going to follow the experts advice.

Here goes, please feel free to steer me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

12 Week Cycle
Deca 300 mg 10 weeks
Test E 400mg 12 weeks

PCT
3 weeks
Nolva 40,20,20
Clomid 100,50,50

May have to substitute Test C for Test E...not sure which one I'm going to be able to get my hands on. Working on getting PCT items, I'm not starting the cycle until they're in my hands. A little leery about ordering online...we'll see.

Let me know your thoughts, suggestions...etc!

**mkrulic** · 07-30-2008, 06:55 PM

you have 800 cals coming from protien. where do the rest come from?

**birddogg** · 07-30-2008, 07:35 PM

To be honest, I don't know. I'm not going to lie and say my diet is awesome. Kind of guessed at the calories, I pay more attention to what I don't eat more often. Below is a estimate of a healthy day, I travel for work so it's not always easy to maintain this diet when I'm on the road. I also left out the weekend beers...

8 AM
Protein Shake w/ 1/2 carton of Egg White Beaters
Bowl of Oatmeal w/bannana
Usually a low Fat Muffin (I know there really isn't such a thing)

10AM
Protein Bar
Apple

Noon
Chicken Breast or Grilled chicken salad
Maybe potato or veggie

3PM
Snack/Fruit

5PM
Workout

6PM
Protein Shake w/ 1/2 carton of Egg White Beaters

8PM
Salad
Steak or Grilled Chicken or both
Broccoli or some other green veggie

**one8nine** · 07-30-2008, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by birddogg

Stats
Age -32
Weight - 170lbs
Height -5'10"
BF - 13%

check out the diet section you could probably pick a few things up

Originally Posted by birddogg

12 Week Cycle
Deca 300 mg 10 weeks
Test E 400mg 12 weeks

looks good- get some letro on hand before- you may see side effects

Originally Posted by birddogg

PCT
3 weeks
Nolva 40,20,20
Clomid 100,50,50

3 weeks is too short. make it 4-6.
nolva looks good
clomid sucks, replace it with proviron 50mg ed or aromasin 50mg ed.

Originally Posted by birddogg

May have to substitute Test C for Test E

for all practical purposes, you can considder them the exact same drug

**one8nine** · 07-30-2008, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by birddogg

To be honest, I don't know. I'm not going to lie and say my diet is awesome. Kind of guessed at the calories, I pay more attention to what I don't eat more often. Below is a estimate of a healthy day, I travel for work so it's not always easy to maintain this diet when I'm on the road. I also left out the weekend beers...

8 AM
Protein Shake w/ 1/2 carton of Egg White Beaters
Bowl of Oatmeal w/bannana
Usually a low Fat Muffin (I know there really isn't such a thing)

10AM
Protein Bar
Apple

Noon
Chicken Breast or Grilled chicken salad
Maybe potato or veggie

3PM
Snack/Fruit

5PM
Workout

6PM
Protein Shake w/ 1/2 carton of Egg White Beaters

8PM
Salad
Steak or Grilled Chicken or both
Broccoli or some other green veggie

i see a severe lack of complex carbs. im no diet expert there are many people that can help you much better than i can in this area but thats one thing i see.

**birddogg** · 07-30-2008, 08:54 PM

Thanks for the input one8nine...definitely going to plan out a better diet before I proceed.

I'm not sure if I can get my hands on either aromasin or proviron ...I don't want to go into this half-assed by any means. I'll have to do some searching!

Also I've read numerous posts of guys taking the letro during their cycle and many who don't. I'm guessing my need to take the letro during the cycle should be based off how much water I'm retaining and or signs of gyno, right?

**one8nine** · 07-30-2008, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by birddogg

Thanks for the input one8nine...definitely going to plan out a better diet before I proceed.

I'm not sure if I can get my hands on either aromasin or proviron ...I don't want to go into this half-assed by any means. I'll have to do some searching!

Also I've read numerous posts of guys taking the letro during their cycle and many who don't. I'm guessing my need to take the letro during the cycle should be based off how much water I'm retaining and or signs of gyno, right?

ar-r .com has aromasin, but you can find it cheaper
only a source will have proviron

correct

**Flex-Appeal** · 07-30-2008, 09:11 PM

first: good luck with your cycle
two: imo you should gain a few pounds before first pin

**Flex-Appeal** · 07-30-2008, 09:13 PM

i didn't notice your 5'10'' but still wouldn't hurt to gain a few lbs. before; that may come easy to you if you change up your diet corectly.

**Jakspro** · 07-30-2008, 09:23 PM

This depends on your portions, but I'm rather skeptical that your diet (the one that you posted) comes even NEAR 4000kcals. I'd say around 2800-3200. I'm also being a bit conservative on the numbers.

**birddogg** · 07-31-2008, 07:13 PM

Guys thanks for the advice! Jakspro you're definitely on spot with your conservative guess. Like I said I estimated the total calories.
I'm going to work on the diet for a month or so before I start the cycle.

What are your opinions on when to shoot the Deca ...once per week or twice?

**one8nine** · 07-31-2008, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by birddogg

Guys thanks for the advice! Jakspro you're definitely on spot with your conservative guess. Like I said I estimated the total calories.
I'm going to work on the diet for a month or so before I start the cycle.

What are your opinions on when to shoot the Deca...once per week or twice?

twice, for both test e and deca

**birddogg** · 08-11-2008, 07:18 PM

OK...hopefully the last questions...

Got the diet pretty straightened out...figure I'm going to wait until September to start my cycle at the earliest.

1) I'm in a bind for test...only have a 10ML bottle/200mg of Test E, while I have 50ML/200mg of Deca .
I know this is a dumb question... I'm thinking I'm pretty much screwed at this point for a proper/worthwhile cycle.
Bumping down my original plans to stretch out the Test E is a worthless cycle right?
Suggestions? (besides the obvious, buying more test)

2) Nolva - On Hand
Letro - On Hand
Aromasin - Can't get (Can I substitute Liquidex?) I've read threads where it has been suggested (not necessarily recommended). I've also read that Liquidex is a Nolva replacement (which I feel would be redundant).
Thoughts?

3) BTW...also have a 10ml/50mg bottle of Stanozolol , but probably would be useless for me, right?

Once again thanks for the comments and suggestions...

**T_Own** · 08-11-2008, 07:25 PM

you'd need a lot more winstrol than that.
liquidex = arimidex . when paired with nolva, it lowers the effectiveness.
you could get away with running a low amount of test, it would be better than nothing, but yes, the obvious fix is to get more

**birddogg** · 08-11-2008, 08:56 PM

Yea my only choice for the amount I have would be...
7 weeks Deca - 300mg/wk
8 weeks Test - 250mg/wk
....I'm thinking that it wouldn't be worth my time

Any suggestions for a PCT substitute for Aromasin ? Something that would be paired better with Nolva?

**birddogg** · 08-11-2008, 08:58 PM

Maybe I should just take all the Deca ...12 weeks - 850mg/week...J/K

**T_Own** · 08-11-2008, 09:01 PM

you'd live lol. you could get away with 250mg test, it would pretty much just replace your natural levels, not help gain too much. you could do like 600mg deca / anywhere from 600-250mg test

what part of pa are you from?

**passthetest** · 08-12-2008, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by T_Own

you'd live lol. you could get away with 250mg test, it would pretty much just replace your natural levels, not help gain too much. you could do like 600mg deca / anywhere from 600-250mg test

what part of pa are you from?

...since he's not going to be making any gains from the test he might as well just keep it so ensure that he does not get completely shut down and let the deca be the active as

1-12 test 200 mgs
1-10 deca 600 mgs

And consider using some hcg after

**one8nine** · 08-12-2008, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by birddogg

OK...hopefully the last questions...

Got the diet pretty straightened out...figure I'm going to wait until September to start my cycle at the earliest.

1) I'm in a bind for test...only have a 10ML bottle/200mg of Test E, while I have 50ML/200mg of Deca .
I know this is a dumb question... I'm thinking I'm pretty much screwed at this point for a proper/worthwhile cycle.
Bumping down my original plans to stretch out the Test E is a worthless cycle right?
Suggestions? (besides the obvious, buying more test)

2) Nolva - On Hand
Letro - On Hand
Aromasin - Can't get (Can I substitute Liquidex?) I've read threads where it has been suggested (not necessarily recommended). I've also read that Liquidex is a Nolva replacement (which I feel would be redundant).
Thoughts?

3) BTW...also have a 10ml/50mg bottle of Stanozolol , but probably would be useless for me, right?

Once again thanks for the comments and suggestions...

more test

arimidex is okat at like 1mg a day because nolva reduces its effectiveness
nolva is a serm
arimidex is an ai- no where near the same

thats 5-10 days worth...