My Goal: reasonable?

[football3355]

Hella guys, I am just about to start a cycle and now all of a sudden I found some information that contradicts what I planned to do. My plan was to run dbol for 4 weeks along with test prop out to 12 weeks. I want to bulk like crazy and retain as much as the mass as possible along with a huge strength gain. I am 22 years old, 5'8", 180lbs. My goal is to get to 200 with alot of lbm, but not all considering I am bulking, while retaining almost all of my weight and strength. Will test prop give me these results? I eard its better used for cutting but it is the same base testosterone as enanth, but a difference ester. How are the effects/gains difference besides how fast it kicks in?

[stallion_1]

Hella guys, I am just about to start a cycle and now all of a sudden I found some information that contradicts what I planned to do. My plan was to run dbol for 4 weeks along with test prop out to 12 weeks. I want to bulk like crazy and retain as much as the mass as possible along with a huge strength gain. I am 22 years old, 5'8", 180lbs. My goal is to get to 200 with alot of lbm, but not all considering I am bulking, while retaining almost all of my weight and strength. Will test prop give me these results? I eard its better used for cutting but it is the same base testosterone as enanth, but a difference ester. How are the effects/gains difference besides how fast it kicks in?

test prop has a shorter ester than test enth

since prop is shoter, it kicks in faster than enth

but enth is better used for bulking coz body seems to retain more water which equals more strenght and u can gain more mass.

prop is mostly used fer cuttin'

[LATS60]

Hella guys, I am just about to start a cycle and now all of a sudden I found some information that contradicts what I planned to do. My plan was to run dbol for 4 weeks along with test prop out to 12 weeks. I want to bulk like crazy and retain as much as the mass as possible along with a huge strength gain. I am 22 years old, 5'8", 180lbs. My goal is to get to 200 with alot of lbm, but not all considering I am bulking, while retaining almost all of my weight and strength. Will test prop give me these results? I eard its better used for cutting but it is the same base testosterone as enanth, but a difference ester. How are the effects/gains difference besides how fast it kicks in?

So whats this information you found that contradicts your plan?
Dbol kickstart when not needed cause your running prop?
Pinning ED for 12wks when you could take cyp/enan and jab only 2xwk?

[football3355]

So whats this information you found that contradicts your plan?
Dbol kickstart when not needed cause your running prop?
Pinning ED for 12wks when you could take cyp/enan and jab only 2xwk?

true but idk how hard it is to retain gains on enanth during pct.

[football3355]

true but idk how hard it is to retain gains on enanth during pct.

I think I may run dbol w/ test enanth then. Will that allow me to get 200lb from 180 all said and done after pct?

[LATS60]

true but idk how hard it is to retain gains on enanth during pct.

No harder than on any other test.
Keeping 20lbs after PCT, umm, that mate depends on sooooooooo many things i wouldn't know where to start.

[football3355]

No harder than on any other test.
Keeping 20lbs after PCT, umm, that mate depends on sooooooooo many things i wouldn't know where to start.

I know it mostly depending on how much you can eat in order to keep that weight and how much you lift after. Trust me, my eating habits and training will not change, no matter how hard it is after I come off of it. I have never cycled before and know my receptors are fresh as a "virgin" in terms of juice, so I don't want to over do it. As a beginner, will 500mg a week suffice for my weight gain expectation? (if diet is in check, training, etc)

[JiGGaMaN]

You could reach that goal in water weight alone. I would say its possible.

[LATS60]

I know it mostly depending on how much you can eat in order to keep that weight and how much you lift after. Trust me, my eating habits and training will not change, no matter how hard it is after I come off of it. I have never cycled before and know my receptors are fresh as a "virgin" in terms of juice, so I don't want to over do it. As a beginner, will 500mg a week suffice for my weight gain expectation? (if diet is in check, training, etc)

Ok, well if youv'e decided on taking steroids then...........
500mg test e/cyp wk is a good place to start, 12wks is about optimum.
Make sure you read up on PCT and other meds you might need while on cycle to control bloat or any gyno symptoms.

[football3355]

I know a ton on PCT, enough to make a very good recovery from use. My question is, whether I use test prop or test enanth or cyp or w/e other test, will my strength and weight increase be the same on all of them since they are all test?

[mkrulic]

its all the same. really comes down to diet. I run the same cycle every time. if I bulk or cut depends on how I diet and train

[LATS60]

I know a ton on PCT, enough to make a very good recovery from use. My question is, whether I use test prop or test enanth or cyp or w/e other test, will my strength and weight increase be the same on all of them since they are all test?

In the long run, end result, yes probably maybe depends, seriously go with e/cyp outcome will be pretty much the same on any same dose test and who needs all them holes, there be plenty of time for that on future cycles, believe me.

[football3355]

In the long run, end result, yes probably maybe depends, seriously go with e/cyp outcome will be pretty much the same on any same dose test and who needs all them holes, there be plenty of time for that on future cycles, believe me.

alright I am going to go enanth. Yeah all those holes (not to mention painful injections) I dont mindthem but if I am gong to get the same if not better result from enanth over prop, why do prop? Umm so I plan on running enanth for 12 weeks. here is my diet and training, please critque.

Wks 1-12: test enanth at 500mg per week (2 pins every 3.5 days)
weeks 14-18: PCT including Nolva and proviron at 50mg nolva ed and 100 mg proviron ed along with some less potent otc E-form formestane by dermabolics (anti e for ph's), creatine, and trib. I know the later are no where near as good as nolva and proviron but it might help a little better.

Diet: Bulk with around 4000 cals ed with 250 grams protein (I am 5'8" 180 lbs) with tons of fish, chicken, whey protein, potatoes, multi vitain, cottage cheese for casein, etc

Training: Powerlifting routine. IDK what people recommend but my last non juice bulk went well doing 5x5's for large body parts (chest, back , legs) and 5x10's for smaller (bicepts, calfs, etc)

Goal: 20 lbs of muscle/bulk and tons of strength, and this being after PCT. So retained mass strength etc at 20lbs

[mkrulic]

alright I am going to go enanth. Yeah all those holes (not to mention painful injections) I dont mindthem but if I am gong to get the same if not better result from enanth over prop, why do prop? Umm so I plan on running enanth for 12 weeks. here is my diet and training, please critque.

Wks 1-12: test enanth at 500mg per week (2 pins every 3.5 days)
weeks 14-18: PCT including Nolva and proviron at 50mg nolva ed and 100 mg proviron ed along with some less potent otc E-form formestane by dermabolics (anti e for ph's), creatine, and trib. I know the later are no where near as good as nolva and proviron but it might help a little better.

Diet: Bulk with around 4000 cals ed with 250 grams protein (I am 5'8" 180 lbs) with tons of fish, chicken, whey protein, potatoes, multi vitain, cottage cheese for casein, etc

Training: Powerlifting routine. IDK what people recommend but my last non juice bulk went well doing 5x5's for large body parts (chest, back , legs) and 5x10's for smaller (bicepts, calfs, etc)

Goal: 20 lbs of muscle/bulk and tons of strength, and this being after PCT. So retained mass strength etc at 20lbs

test is test. as for the other bold, you have 1000 cals coming from protien, where are the other 3000 coming from?

[football3355]

test is test. as for the other bold, you have 1000 cals coming from protien, where are the other 3000 coming from?

complex carbs...should my protein be 40% of my diet?

[mkrulic]

complex carbs...should my protein be 40% of my diet?

there not all coming from carbs. that'd be a pretty good trick. in the diet section there is a guy who got it down to 10%. I think its a little low.
my fav split is 40/40/20.

[football3355]

there not all coming from carbs. that'd be a pretty good trick. in the diet section there is a guy who got it down to 10%. I think its a little low.
my fav split is 40/40/20.

well 40% protein of my diet would be like 400g protein a day which is kinda absurd. I know carbs and fat also combine but they are easy to figure out.

[mkrulic]

well 40% protein of my diet would be like 400g protein a day which is kinda absurd. I know carbs and fat also combine but they are easy to figure out.

3000 cals from energy nutrients is absurd.

[mkrulic]

btw, I do 400 a day. 40g/meal, 10 meals a day

[football3355]

3000 cals from energy nutrients is absurd.

well how am I supposed to balance that out then? I cant have 600g protein and 3000 maintence cals a day and try to get bulk up, doesnt work that way. And if you take 400g protein you probably weiggh a ton more than me

[3v1lj03]

btw, I do 400 a day. 40g/meal, 10 meals a day

This is a real question. Can you tell us about that?

[mkrulic]

This is a real question. Can you tell us about that?

I dont normally sleep more than four hours in a row. every two hours I eat 40 grams of protien. If you want ideas for an easy diet to keep Ill pm you.

[mkrulic]

well how am I supposed to balance that out then? I cant have 600g protein and 3000 maintence cals a day and try to get bulk up, doesnt work that way. And if you take 400g protein you probably weiggh a ton more than me

400grams of pro and carb
400 + 400 = 800
800 * 4 = 3200
4000 - 3200 = 800
800/9=89 grams fat

this is actually pretty do-able.

[football3355]

I am sure, but I dont need 400 grams of protein...since i weigh 180. I dont know how you have 400g protein a day and only sleep every few hours. That's nuts. Mabye it works for you but not sleeping continuously for at least 6-8 hours for me would make me feel like crap and idl how you still get muscle growth with minimal sleep. Dont get me wrong, protein is crucial to musckle growth, but so is sleep. training, sleep, and diet = muscle

[one8nine]

its all the same. really comes down to diet. I run the same cycle every time. if I bulk or cut depends on how I diet and train

best post all thread.

[mkrulic]

best post all thread.

thanks. I run pretty much the same thing every time. once you find some favs you kinda stick w/ em

[mkrulic]

I am sure, but I dont need 400 grams of protein...since i weigh 180. I dont know how you have 400g protein a day and only sleep every few hours. That's nuts. Mabye it works for you but not sleeping continuously for at least 6-8 hours for me would make me feel like crap and idl how you still get muscle growth with minimal sleep. Dont get me wrong, protein is crucial to musckle growth, but so is sleep. training, sleep, and diet = muscle

thats true. gotta listen to your body. theres an age diff between us and maybe that makes a diff in sleep paterns and necessity. bottom line is you gotta listen to your body

[football3355]

thats true. gotta listen to your body. theres an age diff between us and maybe that makes a diff in sleep paterns and necessity. bottom line is you gotta listen to your body

tru bro. Good point. I wish I could do that like you because I know even though your not getting as much sleep...your getting a hell of a lot more nutrients during the night than me which is where I fault. No matter how much I eat before I go to bed whether it be casein or not, I still feel insanely hungry when I wake up which is a bad sign I had an anti catabolic part of the night

[one8nine]

tru bro. Good point. I wish I could do that like you because I know even though your not getting as much sleep...your getting a hell of a lot more nutrients during the night than me which is where I fault. No matter how much I eat before I go to bed whether it be casein or not, I still feel insanely hungry when I wake up which is a bad sign I had an anti catabolic part of the night

you mean catabolic.
sometimes i set an alarm and get up mid sleep for a thick shake

[football3355]

you mean catabolic.
sometimes i set an alarm and get up mid sleep for a thick shake

yes catabolic. Yeah mabye I should try that. Well I have 2 months until my set date until I start my first cycle to work out all of the little kinks to make things perfect as can be. Thanks for the help guys.