Elbow joint pains

**jdl0812** · 09-11-2008, 06:25 PM

im getting pain when pushing and pulling in my elbows any suggestions

**LATS60** · 09-11-2008, 06:33 PM

Sounds like possible tendonitis, start with an anti infamatory, hopefully that might it.

**Nitro29** · 09-11-2008, 06:49 PM

Glucosamine Chondrointen (sp?) works wonders for me, almost unbelievably well. HTH...nitro

**jdl0812** · 09-11-2008, 06:59 PM

i hope something will fix it its hindering my cycle lol

**Nitro29** · 09-11-2008, 07:07 PM

Clucosamine probably wont help if it is tendonitis. For that you probably would need an anti inflammatory as Lat suggested, may have to lay off too. Is there pain all the time, or just when moving in certain directions, etc?

It was messing up my cycle too, I almodt stopped it altogether. I still dont do military presses but it was even affecting my bench at the time. Good luck bro...nitro

**bbuilder** · 09-11-2008, 07:08 PM

If you are on cycle you shouldn't really notice it.

Get a neoprene elbow brace. It helps.

**Nitro29** · 09-11-2008, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by bbuilder

If you are on cycle you shouldn't really notice it.

You shouldnt notice muscle/ joint pain on cycle?

Boy I sure did.

**bbuilder** · 09-11-2008, 07:34 PM

I don't whatsoever. This is one of the things I look forward to cycling. All my pains are GONE!!!!!!!

**Nitro29** · 09-11-2008, 07:37 PM

I noticed I dont get near as sore the day after workout and recover amazingly fast. But my damn joints still hurt at times.

**Mulciber** · 09-11-2008, 07:45 PM

winny tears me up..also im getting older..lot of wear and tear ..lol
i do like Nandrolone 's action as an antiinflammatory

**bbuilder** · 09-11-2008, 07:49 PM

i do like Nandrolone's action as an antiinflammatory

BINGO....one of the compounds I always stack.

**Mulciber** · 09-11-2008, 08:23 PM

just thought id elaborate a little more on deca 's action as an antiinflammatory... hey, im bored and north carolina is beating rutgers 38-6..lol

when people say deca improves joints because it makes you hold water, (lubes the joints)that is nonsense.if it were wouldnt anything that makes you retain water do the same thing.it is an antiinflmmatory because it suppresses cell mediated immunity, which controls inflammation. it has nothing to do with water.

**jdl0812** · 09-11-2008, 08:29 PM

ty very much guys this is why i love this site can always get some info when i have an isssue

**VWbug66** · 09-11-2008, 10:06 PM

after I ran winny and prop a few months ago, I had terrible pain in my right elbow ONLY..

hurt so bad just to hold a gallon of milk out of the fridge..it burned and hurt at the same time...

then i noticed when I did free standing curls, it hurt my elbow so damn bad..anything that i would squeeze in my right arm, would hurt my elbow so bad.

so when I did the curls where the back of ur elbows rest on that flat part, I think preacher curls=not sure..it wouldnt hurt..

but i never had joint pain ever untill after that cycle. now i'm running sust and deca , and the pain is going away a great deal, and i contribute it to the deca

**bbuilder** · 09-11-2008, 10:08 PM

Yep.

Be careful though. This is when injuries can happen because you don't know there is still an injury.

Always be aware of your poundages.

**Sage** · 09-11-2008, 10:53 PM

even on massive Deca dose my elbow is ****ed. Granted, the pain is not as severe, but I am at the level where arthroscopic surgery might give a chance to heal and continue on.

**bbuilder** · 09-11-2008, 10:54 PM

Off Deca how is it?

You might want to try changing your workout style until it starts to heal.

**bbuilder** · 09-11-2008, 10:55 PM

Off Deca how is it?

You might want to try changing your workout style until it starts to heal.

**Sage** · 09-12-2008, 12:01 AM

when not on cycles, I refrain from numerous free weight exercises and substitute them with machines or cables as a workaround for certain muscle groups. I wear two pullover elbow supports when working out and one full-time during the day everyday. It does help a lot. Every other night I wear elbow brace as well. It’s not strapped in tightly in order to allow the blood to properly circulate through the arm from wearing elbow pullovers all day.
two years ago I took approximately seven months off and when coming back, the elbow pain was even worse where I dealt with it ever since. Currently actively seeking treatments at orthopaedic surgery & sports medicine clinic. The surgery will noticeably reduce the amount of pain I have now, however precautions still need to be taken when lifting.

**LATS60** · 09-12-2008, 06:17 AM

i do like Nandrolone 's action as an antiinflammatory

BINGO....one of the compounds I always stack.

WTF, do you know how this myth started?

**"Maximus"** · 09-12-2008, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Nitro29

Glucosamine Chondrointen (sp?) works wonders for me, almost unbelievably well. HTH...nitro

I'll be definitely trying that... thx bro.

**"Maximus"** · 09-12-2008, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by LATS60

i do like Nandrolone 's action as an anti inflammatory

BINGO....one of the compounds I always stack.

WTF, do you know how this myth started?

Nice... so deca would act as an anti inflammatory agent?

**bbuilder** · 09-12-2008, 08:59 AM

Best of luck Sarge. Seems like you are doing everything you can.

**Mulciber** · 09-12-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by "Maximus"

Nice... so deca would act as an anti inflammatory agent?

little info from Nandi
Androgens, Estrogens, and The Immune Response .
I posted this reply recently on another board to the question "Do androgens suppress or stimulate the immune system"

It's really not quite correct to say androgens suppress or stimulate the immune system. It is a bit more complicated than that, not surprisingly.

Here is Immunology 101 in a nutshell. The immune system has two "arms of attack": the cell mediated arm and the humoral arm. The cell mediated arm, or cellular immunity, responds to general assaults on the body by sending out immune cells to do things like attack invading organisms, or degrade necrotic tissue, in a non specific manner. By non specific it is meant that the immune cells do not recognize the invader as a specific target with which they are familiar. Inflammation is an example of a cell mediated response. When you get a sliver or strain a muscle the body sends immune cells there to wall off the site, increase blood flow, remove damaged tissue, etc.

Humoral immunity involves B lymphocytes that secrete antibodies that bind to the target and allow immune cells to recognize the target immediately as an invader and launch an attack. When you are vaccinated for something, like smallpox, you are injected with a small inactive piece of the virus. This primes your body to make large numbers of B cell clones that, if ever challenged with smallpox for real, pump out antibodies that mark the virus for destruction by other cells. The big advantage of this system is that it is fast and efficient. The disadvantage is that it is very specific. The cellular response is not as efficient but it works against any invader, not just one for which there already exist primed clonal B cells.

There is an emerging model of how the sex steroids regulate the two arms of the immune system. It is thought that testosterone stimulates the humoral arm and suppresses the cellular arm. This paradigm arose from the study of autoimmune diseases which overwhelmingly plague women more than men. The majority of autoimmune diseases involve a cellular immune system gone wild. Since in men testosterone suppresses cellular immunity, men are much less likely to suffer from these diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis.

Why is deca 's reputation as an antiinflammatory better than testosterone's for example? My guess is the minimal aromatization and its progestogenic activity. If you link to the article below and open the graphic, you will see a couple of interesting things.

First, progesterone, like testosterone, stimulates humoral immunity (the TH2 mediated response in the graphic) and suppresses cellular immunity (TH1 response). So progesterone has antiinflammatory action.

Second, estrogen exerts a biphasic effect. At low doses it is proinflammatory, stimulating the TH1 arm of the immune system (cellular immunity) and inflammation.

Deca then works both as an androgen and a progestin to quell inflammation. Testosterone, by virtue of its aromatization to estrogen is an inferior antiinflammatory.

If you want to learn more about sex hormones and immunity, this is a good article to start with

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conte...y=JsdA5F3s0DHFo

**Mulciber** · 09-12-2008, 03:45 PM

btw.. Nandi was way ahead of AR/hooker on this topic.. light years ahead.. posted this way before hooker stole the work and posted his article on this same topic.
nothing but a hack

**"Maximus"** · 09-12-2008, 03:46 PM

Thanks bro... I'll be definitely reading that!

**Flex-Appeal** · 09-12-2008, 03:47 PM

Are you taking letro? this could be contributing to your problem

**Bossman** · 09-12-2008, 04:00 PM

A body of mine recently tore three tendons of one of his pecs from the bone. He was taking a variety of AAS and experiencing quite a bit of growth in muscle prior to tearing his tendons. He was not taking Deca at the time however. The surgeon that reattached the tendones told him that if he had been taking Deca he might not have suffered the tear. Deca is the only AAS that has been proven to not only accelerate the healing of connective tissue but to also make it stronger.

http://www.paktribune.com/news/print.php?id=183128

There are many references to this on the web. Lets put it to rest and all agree, Deca is GOOD for your joints.

**SuperK** · 09-12-2008, 04:04 PM

It's definitely tendonitis or what many refer to as tennis elbow. I get it to during cycles. FVCK over the counter remedies, the only thing that will fix it is a trip to the doc for a cortisone injection. It's quick, painless and fixes the problem instantly. And that is a Fvcken fact!!

**bbuilder** · 09-12-2008, 06:15 PM

The surgeon that reattached the tendones told him that if he had been taking Deca he might not have suffered the tear. Deca is the only AAS that has been proven to not only accelerate the healing of connective tissue but to also make it stronger.

Awesome info. You learn something new everyday!

**LATS60** · 09-12-2008, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by cgb6810

A body of mine recently tore three tendons of one of his pecs from the bone. He was taking a variety of AAS and experiencing quite a bit of growth in muscle prior to tearing his tendons. He was not taking Deca at the time however. The surgeon that reattached the tendones told him that if he had been taking Deca he might not have suffered the tear. Deca is the only AAS that has been proven to not only accelerate the healing of connective tissue but to also make it stronger.

http://www.paktribune.com/news/print.php?id=183128

There are many references to this on the web. Lets put it to rest and all agree, Deca is GOOD for your joints.

Interesting, but the study only relates to a possible aid in improving tendon strength after surgery, i don't quite see the correlation, we know that taking any steroid does not strengthen the connective tissue along with the muscle.
So i fail to see why a surgeon would say such a thing, given that he knows there is absolutely no medical evidence to back up such an off the cuff statement.

**Bossman** · 09-13-2008, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by LATS60

Interesting, but the study only relates to a possible aid in improving tendon strength after surgery, i don't quite see the correlation, we know that taking any steroid does not strengthen the connective tissue along with the muscle.
So i fail to see why a surgeon would say such a thing, given that he knows there is absolutely no medical evidence to back up such an off the cuff statement.

The surgeon further suggested if my friend continues to use AAS to run a small amount of Deca in every cycle. There are many references to the study on the web, all you have to do is search.

Conclusions: Nandrolone decanoate and load acted synergistically to increase matrix remodeling and biomechanical properties of bioartificial tendons.

**LATS60** · 09-13-2008, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by cgb6810

The surgeon further suggested if my friend continues to use AAS to run a small amount of Deca in every cycle. There are many references to the study on the web, all you have to do is search.

Conclusions: Nandrolone decanoate and load acted synergistically to increase matrix remodeling and biomechanical properties of bioartificial tendons.

I know there are many refs, iv'e read them, no conclusive proof is the best case scenario to date, even the studys on live mammals were inconclusive and that was a dose of nandrolone equivalent to a 6mg/kg body weght.

Also the study you refer to was based on findings using growth of muscle matrix in a pippette.

**Bossman** · 09-13-2008, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by LATS60

I know there are many refs, iv'e read them, no conclusive proof is the best case scenario to date, even the studys on live mammals were inconclusive and that was a dose of nandrolone equivalent to a 6mg/kg body weght.

Also the study you refer to was based on findings using growth of muscle matrix in a pippette.

There is an abundance of anecdotal evidence that supports deca use for joint issues. Now there are studies supporting that deca not only helps heal but strengthen connective tissue.

You can knock the studies, but they are on the right track. Any seasoned AAS user will concur, deca is good for joints. And you don't need to run a large amount to benefit from deca. I run 150 EW to alleviate elbow pain.

**LATS60** · 09-13-2008, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by cgb6810

There is an abundance of anecdotal evidence that supports deca use for joint issues. Now there are studies supporting that deca not only helps heal but strengthen connective tissue.

You can knock the studies, but they are on the right track. Any seasoned AAS user will concur, deca is good for joints. And you don't need to run a large amount to benefit from deca. I run 150 EW to alleviate elbow pain.

Does 30yrs mean seasoned, deca helps my joints no more or less than any aas that that gives rise to water retention.
I'm not knocking the studies, it's just that you have to interpret those studies based on the findings, all findings of all studies so far are inconclusive, this does hold my interest, and i'd like to see more financial support given, to continue these studies further.

**Bossman** · 09-13-2008, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by LATS60

Does 30yrs mean seasoned, deca helps my joints no more or less than any aas that that gives rise to water retention.
I'm not knocking the studies, it's just that you have to interpret those studies based on the findings, all findings of all studies so far are inconclusive, this does hold my interest, and i'd like to see more financial support given, to continue these studies further.

I see where your coming from. However, there may never be a study correlating to bodybuilders, and some may need that direct evidence to ever believe there is such a benefit from Deca use. When a surgeon advises a bodybuilder to use deca, Im on board.

**LATS60** · 09-13-2008, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by cgb6810

I see where your coming from. However, there may never be a study correlating to bodybuilders, and some may need that direct evidence to ever believe there is such a benefit from Deca use. When a surgeon advises a bodybuilder to use deca, Im on board.

Fair comment mate, pity there aren't more doctors like that surgeon.