Finasteride does NOT hinder gains

[peachfuzz]

Found this on another board. Not sure if it has been posted here or not. If so, sorry for the repost.

Anabolic effects of testosterone are preserved during inhibition of 5alpha-reductase.Borst SE, Conover CF, Carter CS, Gregory CM, Marzetti E, Leeuwenburgh C, Vandenborne K, Wronski TJ.
Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinical Center, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Gainesville, Florida 32608-1197, USA. [email protected]

At replacement doses, testosterone produces only modest increases in muscle strength and bone mineral density in older hypogonadal men. Although higher doses of testosterone are more anabolic, there is concern over increased adverse effects, notably prostate enlargement. We tested a novel strategy for obtaining robust anabolic effects without prostate enlargement. Orchiectomized (O**) male rats were treated for 56 days with 1.0 mg testosterone/day, with and without 0.75 mg/day of the 5alpha-reductase inhibitor MK-434. Testosterone administration elevated the prostate dihydrotestosterone concentration and caused prostate enlargement. Both effects were inhibited by MK-434. O** produced a catabolic state manifested in reduced food intake, blunted weight gain, reduced hemoglobin concentration, decreased kidney mass, and increased bone resorption, and in the proximal tibia there was both decreased cancellous bone volume and a decreased number of trabeculae. In soleus and extensor digitorum longus muscles, O** reduced both the percentage of type I muscle fibers and the cross-sectional area of type 1 and 2 fibers. Testosterone administration caused a number of anabolic effects, including increases in food intake, hemoglobin concentration, and grip strength, and reversed the catabolic effects of O** on bone. Testosterone administration also partially reversed O**-induced changes in muscle fibers. In contrast to the prostate effects of testosterone, the effects on muscle, bone, and hemoglobin concentration were not blocked by MK-434 (a 5aplha reducatase inhibitor). Our study demonstrates that the effects of testosterone on muscle and bone can be separated from the prostate effects and provides a testable strategy for combating sarcopenia and osteopenia in older hypogonadal men.

[rhino1]

good to know

is that the same with dutasteride???

[peachfuzz]

not sure?

[mick86]

Would be good to hear some opinions on this from some of the more experienced members...

[Angel of death]

In my opinion DHT does absolutely effect some of the benefits of a steroid cycle. Before I even get into that...let me just say DHT is heavily responsible for a man's "sense of well being" and lowering it systematically is never a good idea IN MY OPINION.

Anyway, DHT is responsible for a lot of strength and vascularity in the muscle. Aka why winstrol and masteron and other DHT derivatives get you ripped to shreds. Lacking DHT will cost you some strength gains and your muscles will never be as hard as they potentially could be. Period.

[SNUKA]

In my opinion DHT does absolutely effect some of the benefits of a steroid cycle. Before I even get into that...let me just say DHT is heavily responsible for a man's "sense of well being" and lowering it systematically is never a good idea IN MY OPINION.

Anyway, DHT is responsible for a lot of strength and vascularity in the muscle. Aka why winstrol and masteron and other DHT derivatives get you ripped to shreds. Lacking DHT will cost you some strength gains and your muscles will never be as hard as they potentially could be. Period.

totally true the past 3 cycles i have ran all included finasteride and i can tell you that gaining the weight isnt the problem its that my strength does not increase nearly as much as it should on cycle and off cycle for that fact. muscle hardness isnt really too much of a factor for me at the time, but i havent seen insanely hard muscles since i tried winny which is resposible for me running the finasteride in the first place. I stay away from dhts except var which did harden me up and increase my strength a descent amount.

[WARMachine]

Nice to know...

Of course i bic it so...

Nice source of info though...

Nice!

[Reed]

Yep I agree with Angel of Death. All the studies I see that state this are in animals, rats and seen one in sheep. I mean look at this one. Athletic performance in RATS!! (and how you test grip strength in rats is beyond me). Rats aren't hitting the squat rack, bench, or running the forty. Of course with elevated test levels you will gain strength but not as much as you would without a DHT blocker.

DHT is a stronger androgen and binds to the receptor 3-5 times more strong than testosterone . Blocking the formation of DHT cause in some individuals to have significantly reduced performance effects. More than likely it is caused by the reduction of androgenic effects in other parts of the body that contribute to the ergogenic effects, specially the CNS, which is stimulated by androgens to increase neural output leading to greater strength and recoverability.


I believe that finasteride will negatively effect muscle growth due to the fact it stops 60% or so of the conversion from test to dht and high androgenic properties are one of the reasons why test is such a strong anabolic . DHT will actually stop some of the aromitase activity so when adding ginasteride will allow for more conversion to estrogen. Estrogen is suppressive of the HPTA and causes an increase in SHBG. SHBG will bind more of your test suppressing your gains on cycle and increased HPTA suppression will cause recovery difficulties off cycle resulting in losing more gains that you would otherwise.

Sorry Fuzzy

[RapaciousShark]

I think it's gonna vary widely from person to person. I've been on finasteride for two months, and my natty lifting hasn't changed. I will admit I think my muscles are a little squishier now, but wtf. I don't think it is anywhere near as counterproductive as cigarettes, alcohol, and bad dieting tho. It's worth the hair it saves.

[powerliftmike]

Taking finasteride/dutasteride on cycle may actually slightly raise the amount of free and total testosterone , which correlates to higher anabolism. however dht is necessary for strength, hardness, and will minimize estrogenic side effects

[Angel of death]

Yeah...DHT is basically responsible for the androgenic benefits of steroids . This also includes sex drive. Although on testosterone it probably isnt as much of an issue.

[peachfuzz]

im not arguing for a second about the effects of DHT on muscle and composition or even strength for that matter. however for those of you that actually read the study i bolded the part about seperating the effects on prostate from those on muscle, bone, and hemoglobin concentration. maybe take another look?

also im not picking a lane here or saying finasteride will not hinder gains. im merely sharing a study i found.

sorry reed.

[Kratos]

It all comes down to how much you like your hair imo. I'm a fan of 5-ar blockers, strength and agression will suffer a little. Still the cycle will be productive, and I feel like the strength gains tend to be temporary with DHT but the hairloss isn't. If you are hitting it hard in the gym the bottom line is you should see good results.

[mick86]

I'm currently running finasteride along with test at 650mg pw and insulin at 10iu post workout 4 days per week. Last cycle I ran the test at 500mg pw with deca at 400mg pw and no finasteride. I'm already set a pb on squats and I'm only 2 weeks in, also already gained 4kg and I actually ate terribly for 2 days due to a social outing. Put on 3kg week 1, and 1 in week 2 as a result.

Basically even if the finasteride is effecting my gains a little, imo its definitely worth it to save my hair. I agree with Kratos. Btw, my liboido is going strong thanks, didn't get any action the other night and as a result had 2 very pleasant dreams that night, something that rarely happens off cycle.

[Reed]

Oh I agree, if it was b/w some extra strength in the gym or my hair I would have to go with my hair.