Good Bad first Cycle?

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 09:46 AM

so if i wanted to do a 1st timer cycle when i turn 21. could i run Test Prop for what? 8 weeks Pining ED or EOD at 400-500mg/WK no frontload?
keep letro on hand for gyno.
and use clomid for PCT. or what?
also could i through D-bol 40-50mg ED for 4-6weeks?

**Jfew44** · 10-07-2008, 09:50 AM

Honestly bro, I would recommend a test e 500mg/wk first cycle. You can throw the dbol in if you want for 4 weeks to kickstart. Prop is not usually recommended for a first cycle, but I cant tell you not to, because that was my first. If you do use prop, its best to pin ed and there's really no need for the dbol as it will kick in pretty quick.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 02:02 PM

only reason i wanted to run Test prop was because i cant run a long cycle and im on probation so im worried about my PO noticing me being huge and testing me i might, not see him for say 3months so i can run it smooth and it won be in my system long,
as i under. Also did you find anything wrong with me PCT and did you have any sides or trouble with prop pain first cycle?

**LATS60** · 10-07-2008, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by A2thej2008

only reason i wanted to run Test prop was because i cant run a long cycle and im on probation so im worried about my PO noticing me being huge and testing me i might, not see him for say 3months so i can run it smooth and it won be in my system long,
as i under. Also did you find anything wrong with me PCT and did you have any sides or trouble with prop pain first cycle?

LOL, thats so funny, don't worry mate you ain't going to get huge overnight, if you think thats what steroids will do for you then you will be very dissappointed.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by LATS60

LOL, thats so funny, don't worry mate you ain't going to get huge overnight, if you think thats what steroids will do for you then you will be very dissappointed.

i mean say my PO see's my 2 weeks before my cycle then 2 weeks after cycle is finish? what does he think? i figure ill just where a big coat? i dunno

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2008, 02:10 PM

Prop is usually not first timer friendly because it requires EOD shots at minimum and ED idealy.

Clomid only PCT is not enough.

Nolvadex is the cornerstone of any good PCT.

I wouldnt bother with the dbol , but if you want a few extra pounds of water go for it. But not needed as Prop should kick within 10 or so days.

No sides from first time running Prop for me. The pain was worse than other tests ive done though. Not that bad though.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by war4BTT

Prop is usually not first timer friendly because it requires EOD shots at minimum and ED idealy.

Clomid only PCT is not enough.

Nolvadex is the cornerstone of any good PCT.

I wouldnt bother with the dbol , but if you want a few extra pounds of water go for it. But not needed as Prop should kick within 10 or so days.

No sides from first time running Prop for me. The pain was worse than other tests ive done though. Not that bad though.

i mean im planning on doing the Prop when i get up to 205-210 lbs 8-11%BF age 21-22.
I have no problem with Pining ED or EOD needles dont bother me, i will first figure out the whole proper procedure from A-Z, but for PCT oppose to Nolvadex could i use Clomid and Armidex? also the letro on hand is good right? and lastly how do i prevent estrogen rebound after PCT

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2008, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by A2thej2008

i mean im planning on doing the Prop when i get up to 205-210 lbs 8-11%BF age 21-22.
I have no problem with Pining ED or EOD needles dont bother me, i will first figure out the whole proper procedure from A-Z, but for PCT oppose to Nolvadex could i use Clomid and Armidex? also the letro on hand is good right? and lastly how do i prevent estrogen rebound after PCT

Ok ok ok slow down...

Adex is not a good idea for PCT. Adex and Nolva reduce each others effectiveness. And like i said before, Nolva is the cornerstone of ANY good PCT.

Letro is not needed for a Prop only cycle. Adex on cycle to keep bloat under control is fine.

As long as youre not using Letro during your PCT (which is a horrible choice for PCT) you shouldnt experience a estrogen rebound effect.

A good PCT for your proposed cycle looks something like this.

Nolva - 20/20/20/20
Clomid - 50/50/25/25
Aromasin or Proviron 25/25/25/25 (If you use an AI, you wont really need Clomid.)

**redz** · 10-07-2008, 02:26 PM

You should be fine its not like you are going to be like Ronnie Coleman or something. Just cover up with baggy clothes.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 02:40 PM

Letro for any possible gyno on hand is what i meant? and ur 20/20/20/20 means what 20mg ED weeks 1-4??? dont understand that part? Also if needed, i most likely could obtain TEST E legit Human Pharm Grade? but then i would have to cycle for quite some time correct, no short cycles there. unless frontload?

**redz** · 10-07-2008, 02:41 PM

Yes thats what it means 20md ed weeks 1-4. Test E needs to be ran 10-12 weeks minimum as it takes 4-6 weeks to peak.

**jstraw428** · 10-07-2008, 02:46 PM

Although prop is not recommended for a first cycle(it was mine).....there is no reason you cant.....At least you are spending the time to figure this stuff out before you start....

Prop, in my opinion is the ultimate test.....low sides, quick kick in time, if you can handle the ed injections, then i say go for it.....IF you think prop is for you, then go with it....
Just make sure everything else is in order before your cycle...

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 02:50 PM

now what should i look for in Good PROP as i do have good resources for gear, i obviously and looking for something with least amount of Pain, so that has to do with the Oil, which is a BA or B-12? correct? i am only speaking of what i think i know, knowing that i really have no idea. LOL :P also as far as Pins go im going to need 5/8inch pins? and 1-1.5inch pins and gauge 21 needles for drawing and injecting?

**redz** · 10-07-2008, 02:52 PM

i sugest 25G 1" for spot injections/quads and 23G 1.5" pins for glutes. Use the 21G for drawing.

**jstraw428** · 10-07-2008, 02:56 PM

Painless prop is always a plus, as far as pins go, I use 25g 5/8, 1, 1.5.......this way i can rotate all my sites, with the appropriate length pin....

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 03:06 PM

Ok and 500mg/wk is fine first cycle? and its just like injecting anything right except slightly diff. i mean draw, flick, push out air, stick pull back,make sure there's no blood, good to go,Inject nice and slowly,leave it for a few seconds and remove. correct? also i've heard these methods of pulling skin to the sides and what not, which im sure most of u use?
also as with Painful Prop its pretty bad huh/ i dont know anything of filtration yet but i have plenty of time to educate myself.

**redz** · 10-07-2008, 03:09 PM

Stretch the skin out where you are injecting so when you pull the pin out and let go the sking tightens up stoping leakage.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 03:22 PM

everything else was right. and Letrodex is god to have for any gyno correct

**redz** · 10-07-2008, 03:26 PM

Letro is good to have incase signs of gyno show up. Its Letrozole not Letrodex.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 03:32 PM

got it and 8 weeks on prop is good or no?

**redz** · 10-07-2008, 03:33 PM

Prop is good for 8 week cycles as it kicks in virtually right away.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 03:41 PM

any longer than 8 weeks ? and how long it get out of system for drug test to say

**jstraw428** · 10-07-2008, 03:52 PM

I use prop for most all my cycles, and have run it before for 15wks....injecting ed......Test is test, it comes down to personal preference on inection frequency.....

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 03:58 PM

and with a clean and propet diets what can i expect to gain in 8-10weeks of prop or do u recommend only running 8 weeks for 1st cycle? my weight will be about 195-205lbs and bf 8-11% when i start the cycle.

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2008, 04:22 PM

There are too many variables to tell how much you will gain bro.

But generally, you can expect at least 12lbs. I dont think youll gain less than that for an 8 week cycle unless you diet and training really suck.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 04:25 PM

wait factors make prop painless? heating FIltering etc???? oil???

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2008, 04:30 PM

All those help...

I wouldnt filter unless you know how. (I dont, but my source does.)

Heating the syringe under warm water seems to help, as well as pre and post-injection hot showers.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 04:32 PM

and what injection sites u use?

u change needles from the one u draw with and the one u inject with?

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2008, 05:14 PM

Yes, i always change the needle, not the syringe, but the needle.

For ED injections use this.

R/Glute, R/Quad, R/Delt, L/Glute, L/Quad, L/Delt

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 08:10 PM

draw, flick, push out air, stick pull back,make sure there's no blood, good to go,Inject nice and slowly,leave it for a few seconds and remove. correct?

what about Tri's and Traps and Calves and Pecs and Bi's?

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2008, 08:14 PM

Ive heard Claves and Pecs dont feel so great. Ive never tried.

That schedule i gave you is good bro...

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 08:20 PM

ok no problem. now while ur still helping me thank you

lets say i cant get prop for what ever reason i know 100% i can can get Test E, but im worried about sides its 100% CA medical grade, do u have any exp with that? im hoping my Prop will come through though

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2008, 08:22 PM

Yeah my first cycle was with Test E. I personally love it. But Prop is the best IMO.

The sides shouldnt be any worse than Prop, other than a little more water retention. Which, with the help of an AI on cycle, shouldnt be an issue. Of course a great diet is best to keep unwanted water weight away.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 08:25 PM

how long do i have to run test E for? 12-14 and frontload with D-bol?

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2008, 08:28 PM

Id say a minimum of 12 weeks. 14 being optimal.

A frontload with Dbol is not needed, but can be done without issue.

Either way bro, id advise having Adex on hand for estrogen control.

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 08:30 PM

run it through out the cycle? and is Armidex and Letro same thing?

**WARMachine** · 10-07-2008, 08:54 PM

No, letro and Adex arent the same thing.

these drugs cover estrogen:
Arimidex aka Anastrozole
Aromasin aka Exemestane
Proviron aka Mesterolone

these drugs cover progesterone/Prolactin:
Dostinex/Cabaser aka Cabergoline
Parlodel aka Bromocriptine

this drug covers BOTH:
Femara aka Letrozole

oh and PS
-Arimidex and Nolvadex don't mix
-clomid should only be used at 25mg a day, off cycle, never on
-Nolvadex is bad when your progesterone is stimulated
-letro causes an estrogen rebound effect when usage is stopped in people, most common way to end is to taper off stacked with Nolvadex. this can be tricky if you are using letro to deal with progesterone

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 11:04 PM

i was thinking Letro is good to have on hand incase of gyno symptoms on cycle

**Deltasaurus** · 10-07-2008, 11:29 PM

Ok So Here The CYCLE
500mg/wk of Test Prop Pinning ED 75mg rotating injection sites as you specified Glutes L&R Quads L&R and Delts L&R
Running the Cycle for 8-9 weeks
Letro on hand for Gyno and Armidex for estrogen effects if needed
PCT
starting day after last injection i think.
1-4 weeks Nolvadex 20mg ED
1-4 weeks Aromasin 25mg ED

If cycle is Test Enth
500mg/wk 14weeks
Pinning twice a week Monday AM Thursday PM 250mg each Pin
Front load with d-bol 30-50mg ED weeks 1-4 or 1-6
Same PCT only 2 weeks longer
also keeping Letro and Arimidex on hand in case of gyno or unwanted estrogen effects
am i missing anything?

**LATS60** · 10-08-2008, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by A2thej2008

Ok So Here The CYCLE
500mg/wk of Test Prop Pinning ED 75mg rotating injection sites as you specified Glutes L&R Quads L&R and Delts L&R
Running the Cycle for 8-9 weeks
Letro on hand for Gyno and Armidex for estrogen effects if needed
PCT
starting day after last injection i think.
1-4 weeks Nolvadex 20mg ED
1-4 weeks Aromasin 25mg ED

If cycle is Test Enth
500mg/wk 14weeks
Pinning twice a week Monday AM Thursday PM 250mg each Pin
Front load with d-bol 30-50mg ED weeks 1-4 or 1-6
Same PCT only 2 weeks longer
also keeping Letro and Arimidex on hand in case of gyno or unwanted estrogen effects
am i missing anything?