Test E/Dbol Cycle

**flaco99** · 12-07-2008, 01:31 PM

Hey guys planning on starting second cycle.

Test E 500mgs/week for 12 weeks
D-Bol 35 mgs/day weeks 1-4

My first cycle was Deca /Dbol and I was a stupid kid in high school that knew nothing and I ended up getting a bit of gyno. I want to make sure I don't make it worse so what would you guys say nolvadex would be enough throughouthe cycle? And if so much much? Thanks

**bahrianite** · 12-07-2008, 01:33 PM

yeah i would run the nolva through out then!!!how much you need to run,i am not sure bcoz sum say 10mg and some say 20 mg every day,so wait or sum 1 else to tell you how much you would need!!!

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 01:39 PM

forget nolva,you need a good AI like letro,adex etc..do a little more research bro,education in this game goes a long way

**thebeast71** · 12-07-2008, 01:43 PM

why do ppl do dbol and test-e togther?
isent dbol just testosterone ?

**bahrianite** · 12-07-2008, 01:48 PM

i dont think he needs letro!!!for god's sake,letro is very harsh and this cycle is not very hard ,nolva will take care of things very nicly!!!!

if dbol is test ,then why do we take any other drug (decca,tren ,etc) ,they are all derivatives of the test....!!!they all give different results!!!!usage o all these depends on the desired look!!!

dbol is used to kick start the cycle!!!so by the time you are done with the dbol,your test kicks in!!!

**thebeast71** · 12-07-2008, 01:52 PM

ohhhh okay i get it so if he is doing:

Test E 500mgs/week for 12 weeks
D-Bol 35 mgs/day weeks 1-4

week 1-4 he is going to go dbol and 5-12 he is going to start the test E?
then start taking the nolva after or during?

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by bahrianite

i dont think he needs letro!!!for god's sake,letro is very harsh and this cycle is not very hard ,nolva will take care of things very nicly!!!!

if dbol is test ,then why do we take any other drug (decca,tren ,etc) ,they are all derivatives of the test....!!!they all give different results!!!!usage o all these depends on the desired look!!!

dbol is used to kick start the cycle!!!so by the time you are done with the dbol,your test kicks in!!!

letro was used as an example,never ever run juice without running an AI...

**MalibuD** · 12-07-2008, 01:56 PM

I would not take the letro unless you have to, but I would always keep it on hand while cycling. I would save the Nolva for pct and run an AI like Adex. I am Gyno prone so I run Adex at .25 every day some get away with eod or every third day. Just my two cents.

**thebeast71** · 12-07-2008, 02:00 PM

soo AI's are what u use during your cycle.
and PCT like nolvaq you run after your cycle?

**bahrianite** · 12-07-2008, 02:01 PM

you should be more specific man the guy is here for speciic advice,i am sure you meant good!!!but please be specific!!!

for the beast

yeah he is going to be using the dbol for the first 4 or 6 weeks (max),orals should not be run longer than that!!!and then test for the rest of the cycle,

running the serm/AI through out in a cycle is better bcoz you dont have to worry about gyno,bloat and all!!!in this case he would be running nolva at around 20 mgs daily!!!it wouldnt realy hinder gains as some people say it does,it would just keep the bloat away and thats nice!!!

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by sinny

forget nolva,you need a good AI like letro,adex etc..do a little more research bro,education in this game goes a long way

i said adex myself,i was using letro and adex as an example,most men can not use letro as its so very harsh,i myself am fine with it but my cycles are quite big..also if using dbol use them week 1-4 and run your test week 1-12,front load the test as imo this is better..,the dbol will then become a kick start to a nice little cycle,if i could i would add some decca in there also around 25-300mg weeks 1-8 also frontloading the deca ,if no deca is available try npp-this does not need frontloading

**bahrianite** · 12-07-2008, 02:04 PM

i have seen some people use an AI in their pct as well!!!

but clomid and nolva are great for pct no doubt!!!but that doesnt mean he cant run it in his cycle too!!!nolva binds to the estrogen receptors and hence does not let gyno form!!!so i really dont think adex would be needed but it can be taken at .25 daily!!!but i would still stick with nolva at 10 or 20 mgs a day!!!

**thebeast71** · 12-07-2008, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by bahrianite

you should be more specific man the guy is here for speciic advice,i am sure you meant good!!!but please be specific!!!

for the beast

yeah he is going to be using the dbol for the first 4 or 6 weeks (max),orals should not be run longer than that!!!and then test for the rest of the cycle,

running the serm/AI through out in a cycle is better bcoz you dont have to worry about gyno,bloat and all!!!in this case he would be running nolva at around 20 mgs daily!!!it wouldnt realy hinder gains as some people say it does,it would just keep the bloat away and thats nice!!!

ahh okay thank you.

so i could use nolva for my AI and PCT, is that correct?

**bahrianite** · 12-07-2008, 02:09 PM

no u cannot use it as an AI !!! AI stops the test from converting into estrogen!!!
where as a serm binds to selective sights and stops estrogen from binding to them!!!

so that means you can take nolva during your cycle and not have to worry about gyno!!!!because it binds to the receptor in the breast tissue and does not let estrogen bind to it!!!!so if you were not using a 19 nor compound ( decca,tren ) then you can use the nolva in your cycle or estrogenic side effects!!!!

and also run it in your pct!!!! i hope you get it!!!!

**Ernst** · 12-07-2008, 02:15 PM

There are so many things wrong in this thread.

To Flaco99: I would go with adex, and keep plenty of nolva and some letro handy. You may have some predisposition to gyno it sounds like, so you should be prepared for the worst. What did you have planned for pct? Stats?

**MalibuD** · 12-07-2008, 02:19 PM

I knew someone was going to step in and handle this boggle!

**Reed** · 12-07-2008, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by ErnstHatAngst

There are so many things wrong in this thread.

To Flaco99: I would go with adex, and keep plenty of nolva and some letro handy. You may have some predisposition to gyno it sounds like, so you should be prepared for the worst. What did you have planned for pct? Stats?

Yes I have to agree....

Flaco Why don't you give us some stats

Age
Height
Weight
BF
Training experience
Diet
PCT knowledge

If your gyno prone then go with the adex at .25mg ed or eod. But first take care of the gyno if possible. That would be be recommendation before you start your next cycle

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by ErnstHatAngst

There are so many things wrong in this thread.

To Flaco99: I would go with adex, and keep plenty of nolva and some letro handy. You may have some predisposition to gyno it sounds like, so you should be prepared for the worst. What did you have planned for pct? Stats?

this seems to be the voice of reason right here,somebodys paying attention

**thebeast71** · 12-07-2008, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by bahrianite

no u cannot use it as an AI !!! AI stops the test from converting into estrogen!!!
where as a serm binds to selective sights and stops estrogen from binding to them!!!

so that means you can take nolva during your cycle and not have to worry about gyno!!!!because it binds to the receptor in the breast tissue and does not let estrogen bind to it!!!!so if you were not using a 19 nor compound ( decca,tren ) then you can use the nolva in your cycle or estrogenic side effects!!!!

and also run it in your pct!!!! i hope you get it!!!!

im geting closer to understanding

(thank you for helping me out im new to steroids )

what i dont understand is witch do you take during and what one u take after. serms and AI's.

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by thebeast71

im geting closer to understanding

(thank you for helping me out im new to steroids )

what i dont understand is witch do you take during and what one u take after. serms and AI's.

it would depend on the cycle you were going to run,some steroids like tren /deca etc can not be used with nolva,An AI should always be run through a cycle but will also have no affect on tren/deca its prolactin (not sure how to spell it) related gyno from them,.Letro,adex arimidex ect are good when using tests etc

**Ernst** · 12-07-2008, 02:42 PM

I always wanted to use that.

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by ErnstHatAngst

I always wanted to use that.

**thebeast71** · 12-07-2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by sinny

it would depend on the cycle you were going to run,some steroids like tren/deca etc can not be used with nolva,An AI should always be run through a cycle but will also have no affect on tren/deca its progetrin (not sure how to spell it) related gyno from them,.Letro,adex arimidex ect are good when using tests etc

if i was running Test-E by its self for 12 weeks
1-12 test-E 1cc every 3 days/ nova(1 pill a day)

PCT.
start the PCT 14 days after my last injection

**Reed** · 12-07-2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by bahrianite

no u cannot use it as an AI !!! AI stops the test from converting into estrogen!!!
where as a serm binds to selective sights and stops estrogen from binding to them!!!

so that means you can take nolva during your cycle and not have to worry about gyno!!!!because it binds to the receptor in the breast tissue and does not let estrogen bind to it!!!!so if you were not using a 19 nor compound ( decca,tren ) then you can use the nolva in your cycle or estrogenic side effects!!!!

and also run it in your pct!!!! i hope you get it!!!!

Why would just use Nolva in your cycle and PCT. Yes it binds to the sites blocking estrogen receptors but it does not lower estrogen in the blood. Thats why it is best to use an AI during cycle like adex. Then nolva/aromasin PCT would be the best option to go with. And alos you DO NOT want to run nolva with a 19 nor compound

**Reed** · 12-07-2008, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by thebeast71

if i was running Test-E by its self for 12 weeks
1-12 test-E 1cc every 3 days/ nova(1 pill a day)

PCT.
start the PCT 14 days after my last injection

Why don't you start your own thread, list your stats, and dosages you plan to run. I have no idea how many mg 1cc of the Test E you have has in it. Also do the same with the nolva. 1 pill a day could mean any amount. I think you might want to research more not be spoon feed

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by thebeast71

if i was running Test-E by its self for 12 weeks
1-12 test-E 1cc every 3 days/ nova(1 pill a day)

PCT.
start the PCT 14 days after my last injection

To start with id run the test-e for at least 16 weeks not sure how many mg per ml your running there though..,12 weeks on test-e and things are just getting good,then you stop-this sucks this is why im a 16 week fan..,i would only use the nolva if i was getiing puffy or itchy nipples as i am not keen on it,get some arimidex or adex,use .25ed for the whole cycle,continue using into your pct where nolva/clomid and maybe hcg can be used but only if your balls are struggling to come back,if this is your first cycle this should not be the case

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 02:54 PM

you sound like your not ready to be juicing though bro if im honest as the questions your asking and the manor to which your asking (i.e) 1cc and 1 pill tell me nothing,i will try to help you as im sure many others will but you have to help yourself first.good luck

**thebeast71** · 12-07-2008, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by sinny

To start with id run the test-e for at least 16 weeks not sure how many mg per ml your running there though..,12 weeks on test-e and things are just getting good,then you stop-this sucks this is why im a 16 week fan..,i would only use the nolva if i was getiing puffy or itchy nipples as i am not keen on it,get some arimidex or adex,use .25ed for the whole cycle,continue using into your pct where nolva/clomid and maybe hcg can be used but only if your balls are struggling to come back,if this is your first cycle this should not be the case

yes this would be my firsy cycle. and do PCT last untill you start your next cycle?

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by thebeast71

yes this would be my firsy cycle. and do PCT last untill you start your next cycle?

im not sure what your asking me there bro

**Reed** · 12-07-2008, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by sinny

To start with id run the test-e for at least 16 weeks not sure how many mg per ml your running there though..,12 weeks on test-e and things are just getting good,then you stop-this sucks this is why im a 16 week fan..,i would only use the nolva if i was getiing puffy or itchy nipples as i am not keen on it,get some arimidex or adex,use .25ed for the whole cycle,continue using into your pct where nolva/clomid and maybe hcg can be used but only if your balls are struggling to come back,if this is your first cycle this should not be the case

Why are we all recommending using AI's in such simple cycles. Its about keeping your estrogen in check but with the doses I'm sure he is going to run with the AI I'm willing to bet he will run is estradiol levels too low. In this type of simple cycles like Test or Test/dbol AI's are best used by those who are overly gyno prone IMO. Estrogen is an important hormone for growth.... I know that might be shocking....

The first hormone we need to keep an eye on. Many AAS convert to estrogen via the aromatization process. Some AAS are worse than others. Also, estrogen spikes after a cycle. High levels of estrogen leads to gyno, water retention, fat storage etc. Estrogen plays a key role in progesterone related gyno. We either block its receptors with SERMS or reduce its production with AIs. We watch estrogen levels during a cycle and in PCT. Lowering estrogen too much will mess up your blood lipids. Letting it get out of control will cause sides like gyno, water retention etc. Estrogen plays a role in IGF-1 levels, may lower IGF-1 when blocked with a SERM. Estrogen is also beneficial hormone when bulking, promoting higher androgen receptor concentrations (!). It also is beneficial in another way - its supposed to act as an anti-inflammatory - this means blocking or reducing it too much during a heavy bulking cycle can result in injury to joints. Obviously different estrogen levels are desired for different goals, and it is not always good to block its action or its production. Usually, while bulking, estrogen is allowed to rise unless gyno or water retention (leading to high blood pressure) becomes a problem. When cutting and shedding water and lifting a little lighter (contest prep for example) estrogen is usually dropped with an AI. Proper diet and training can help the bad side effects high estrogen can have.

**thebeast71** · 12-07-2008, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by sinny

you sound like your not ready to be juicing though bro if im honest as the questions your asking and the manor to which your asking (i.e) 1cc and 1 pill tell me nothing,i will try to help you as im sure many others will but you have to help yourself first.good luck

i understand im tryin to learn everything before i start. the people i know that think they know steroids dont know shit, so its hard to learn everything thro the internet...

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Reed500

Why are we all recommending using AI's in such simple cycles. Its about keeping your estrogen in check but with the doses I'm sure he is going to run with the AI I'm willing to bet he will run is estradiol levels too low. In this type of simple cycles like Test or Test/dbol AI's are best used by those who are overly gyno prone IMO. Estrogen is an important hormone for growth.... I know that might be shocking....

im with you there bro,we do need a slight amount of estrogen to grow even though a lot of people do not share this view

..what im saying is imo never juice without 1 as it may not affect you now but later in life i promise you it will come back to you if you do this to often..i dont mind writing something up when i get a moment if you would like to read why you should always run an AI

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by thebeast71

i understand im tryin to learn everything before i start. the people i know that think they know steroids dont know shit, so its hard to learn everything thro the internet...

The fist step is asking a bizilion questions,this your doing,but we need age,weight,b/f cycle and lifting experiance,macros etc..then we can all help you get on the right path..

**thebeast71** · 12-07-2008, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by sinny

The fist step is asking a bizilion questions,this your doing,but we need age,weight,b/f cycle and lifting experiance,macros etc..then we can all help you get on the right path..

ill make my own thread.

**Reed** · 12-07-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by sinny

im with you there bro,we do need a slight amount of estrogen to grow even though a lot of people do not share this view

..what im saying is imo never juice without 1 as it may not affect you now but later in life i promise you it will come back to you if you do this to often..i dont mind writing something up when i get a moment if you would like to read why you should always run an AI

Sure right it up. I like to see it..... as numerous of people and logs will state with such simple cycles as these you gains will be cut short. Estrogen is anabolic and that is why the best way to solve the problem is to keep an eye on it through blood work before, during, and after. Willing to bet most guys don't need an AI during there cycles and are actually hurting there results tremendously and it seems most the guys who recommend it in my experience here and other places during these type cycles usually aren't the biggest guys.

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Reed500

Sure right it up. I like to see it..... as numerous of people and logs will state with such simple cycles as these you gains will be cut short. Estrogen is anabolic and that is why the best way to solve the problem is to keep an eye on it through blood work before, during, and after. Willing to bet most guys don't need an AI during there cycles and are actually hurting there results tremendously and it seems most the guys who recommend it in my experience here and other places during these type cycles usually aren't the biggest guys.

i l write it up for you bro,im around 250lb so not to small,but in the same breath not big enough either

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Reed500

Sure right it up. I like to see it..... as numerous of people and logs will state with such simple cycles as these you gains will be cut short. Estrogen is anabolic and that is why the best way to solve the problem is to keep an eye on it through blood work before, during, and after. Willing to bet most guys don't need an AI during there cycles and are actually hurting there results tremendously and it seems most the guys who recommend it in my experience here and other places during these type cycles usually aren't the biggest guys.

also as you know Nolva is a SERM which means it's selective. It only blocks estrogen in certain tissue. It's designed to block estrogen in the breast tissue. That's fine for gyno but you'll still have high levels of estrogen in your system that will effect, mood, acne, blood pressure, etc. An suicidal AI will inhibit the production of the estrogen so you don't have too much in your body.

**Reed** · 12-07-2008, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by sinny

also as you know Nolva is a SERM which means it's selective. It only blocks estrogen in certain tissue. It's designed to block estrogen in the breast tissue. That's fine for gyno but you'll still have high levels of estrogen in your system that will effect, mood, acne, blood pressure, etc. An suicidal AI will inhibit the production of the estrogen so you don't have too much in your body.

Check post 24. Anyway I gotta head out. Till later

**sinny** · 12-07-2008, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Reed500

Why would just use Nolva in your cycle and PCT. Yes it binds to the sites blocking estrogen receptors but it does not lower estrogen in the blood. Thats why it is best to use an AI during cycle like adex. Then nolva/aromasin PCT would be the best option to go with. And alos you DO NOT want to run nolva with a 19 nor compound

im with you bro

**bahrianite** · 12-07-2008, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Reed500

Why would just use Nolva in your cycle and PCT. Yes it binds to the sites blocking estrogen receptors but it does not lower estrogen in the blood. Thats why it is best to use an AI during cycle like adex. Then nolva/aromasin PCT would be the best option to go with. And alos you DO NOT want to run nolva with a 19 nor compound

if you look at my post i did state that he cannot use nolva with a 19 nor,because its proge....!!!