should i break? new to roids?

**xcalibur990** · 01-19-2009, 03:51 PM

i have been on deca 300ml. for 4 months. i started at 142lbs. now i weigh 175lbs. and am mixing winstrol in too (stanobol 50) i do 1 cc 3 times a week of stan. and two shots at 1 cc of deca a week, i am still not happy with my size i wanna be bigger, and have a noticeable size while wearing a shirt. after all it is winter, and i live in canada, and the only way you notice my size is when i aint wearing a shirt..lol ;(
So basically my question is, am i in any higher health risks by not taking a break between my cycles? thx any in put would be much apprcieated

**Phate** · 01-19-2009, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by xcalibur990

i have been on deca 300ml. for 4 months. i started at 142lbs. now i weigh 175lbs. and am mixing winstrol in too (stanobol 50) i do 1 cc 3 times a week of stan. and two shots at 1 cc of deca a week, i am still not happy with my size i wanna be bigger, and have a noticeable size while wearing a shirt. after all it is winter, and i live in canada, and the only way you notice my size is when i aint wearing a shirt..lol ;(
So basically my question is, am i in any higher health risks by not taking a break between my cycles? thx any in put would be much apprcieated

stats?
age
height
bf%
training exp
pct?

your cycle is horrible bro, and i'd bet your diet isn't much better, that's why you're not happy with your gains

**xcalibur990** · 01-19-2009, 03:58 PM

ok aged 31 height 5 ft 8 inches.. i take in lots of protein and carbs, but not like i have seen any nutrionists or anything. i am unsure on my bf. never been tested for that. but lets say i can grab a handfull on my abs, and pinch a lil on my chest. if this helps at all??? what would be your suggestion for a proper cycle. sorry for the questions but it is not like i can get this kinda info from a doc..lol any and all input weather it is critical on me or not would be appreciated..

**Phate** · 01-19-2009, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by xcalibur990

ok aged 31 height 5 ft 8 inches.. i take in lots of protein and carbs, but not like i have seen any nutrionists or anything. i am unsure on my bf. never been tested for that. but lets say i can grab a handfull on my abs, and pinch a lil on my chest. if this helps at all??? what would be your suggestion for a proper cycle. sorry for the questions but it is not like i can get this kinda info from a doc..lol any and all input weather it is critical on me or not would be appreciated..

first thing is to get you off this cycle safely, so you need to read up on pct, then after you get that taken care of i would research diet and the various AS, we won't tell you a cycle to run, because if you can't come up with one then you shouldn't be running it, nothing against you, it's just a fail-safe so that the person has to research what he is going to be injecting into his body

go to the "link database" at the top of the steroid section and start reading threads, lots of good info there

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 03:54 PM

whewww, i take it that its 300mg/ml...
no test
id say stop for a bit.. run pct.. recover, may take awhile and continue to research..put together a proper cycle..

**chuckt12345** · 01-19-2009, 03:57 PM

no pecker problems with no test xcal? Are you doin 600mg's a week or 300mg?

**xcalibur990** · 01-19-2009, 04:05 PM

hell no man even got my girl prego.. i am doing 2 cc a week so i am unsure what that is in mg.. and my training expierence is good .. i was in kick boxing for 3 yrs and have weight trained for 3.5 yrs before starting my cycle.. i do have pct .. i just dont wanna be at health risks for not takin a break..

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 04:04 PM

well deca only, or deca / winny is not the best way to go.. you should have ran some test with it.. actually should have just gone with test.. but thats moot..

do you have or are you running and anti-e's and whats your plan for pct?

**xcalibur990** · 01-19-2009, 04:07 PM

yes i have anti e but i got them after i started developing b tits, will it take that away? i am so confused now.. so now you guys say i need to get real testostrone too?

**MMArmour** · 01-19-2009, 04:05 PM

basically...you effed up bro. Deca is incredibly supressive of endogenous testosterone levels and even at 100mg 1 injection can shut down your test almost 90%. Have you not experienced decreased libido or sexual disfunction? Yes you are putting a few things at risk if you continue another cycle. Get off deca and winny (jesus...wtf??) and ahold of some nolvadex and clomid and perhaps some HCG and get your ass back on the road to recovery. THEN.... after MUCH reading and geting your "diet" in order and no more about than "i take in lots of protein and carbs" and know your bf%, then look into actually running these compounds

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 04:07 PM

dont you think its kinda important to know how many MG of hormone your injecting...

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 04:10 PM

you neeed to stop and run pct .. thats what you should do..
will the anti'e take away the "bitch tits".. are you just suffering symptoms.. have lumps formed.. ???

**xcalibur990** · 01-19-2009, 04:13 PM

yes lil lumps.. i will start running pct immediately.. will my size drop ? and what happens if i cant get my hands on test? i do have hgc as well

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-19-2009, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by xcalibur990

yes lil lumps.. i will start running pct immediately.. will my size drop ? and what happens if i cant get my hands on test? i do have hgc as well

Lets look at your mess ups shall we?

You are on a 16 week cycle with no knowledge of when to come off
your 16 week cycle is only deca another big mistake
You have no clue how to do a PCT
You have lumps in your breast that signfy you are developing gyno
You don't know how to treat the gyno, so most likely you will have permanent gyno
You didn't research worth a damn
You don't even know what happens when you come off steroids let alone when to come off

There is so much wrong with this thread that I don't know where to begin, I cannot believe a 31 year old man could make such mistakes, you think with age comes wisdom and with wisdom comes the recognition to research before you put hormones into your body, but I guess not.

I might be sounding like a douchebag bro, but im mad because you are hurting your body and you didn't research this stuff before hand.

**honda450** · 01-19-2009, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

Lets look at your mess ups shall we?

You are on a 16 week cycle with no knowledge of when to come off
your 16 week cycle is only deca another big mistake
You have no clue how to do a PCT
You have lumps in your breast that signfy you are developing gyno
You don't know how to treat the gyno, so most likely you will have permanent gyno
You didn't research worth a damn
You don't even know what happens when you come off steroids let alone when to come off

There is so much wrong with this thread that I don't know where to begin, I cannot believe a 31 year old man could make such mistakes, you think with age comes wisdom and with wisdom comes the recognition to research before you put hormones into your body, but I guess not.

I might be sounding like a douchebag bro, but im mad because you are hurting your body and you didn't research this stuff before hand.

You hit this right on the money..
research buddy.. you need it..

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-19-2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

Lets look at your mess ups shall we?

You are on a 16 week cycle with no knowledge of when to come off
your 16 week cycle is only deca another big mistake
You have no clue how to do a PCT
You have lumps in your breast that signfy you are developing gyno
You don't know how to treat the gyno, so most likely you will have permanent gyno
You didn't research worth a damn
You don't even know what happens when you come off steroids let alone when to come off

There is so much wrong with this thread that I don't know where to begin, I cannot believe a 31 year old man could make such mistakes, you think with age comes wisdom and with wisdom comes the recognition to research before you put hormones into your body, but I guess not.

I might be sounding like a douchebag bro, but im mad because you are hurting your body and you didn't research this stuff before hand

then the first half of this post:

Why did you go on steroids so quickly?

I mean you were 140 pounds, speaking from personal experience, when i first started working out I weighed 130 pounds and I was able to get up to 172 NATURALLY and it only took me 4-5 months.

The reason I say this is, you should have worked out till you got your weight up pretty close to your natural limit that way you have built a base naturally from which your AAS gains can build on.
.

It was water under the bridge..he did it - lets help him fix it.Anyway whats done is done ....i guess a know it all attitude at your age (or any age for that matter) annoys me....
At least it did right now....

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-19-2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

It was water under the bridge..he did it - lets help him fix it.Anyway whats done is done ....i guess a know it all attitude at your age (or any age for that matter) annoys me....
At least it did right now....

Bro your not making any sense at all right now, you go and pull my initial post to the thread and then criticize my second post saying im soap boxing in it when im telling the kid what to expect in the PCT. I asked the questions in the beginning because I wanted to know why he started at the weight he started. Whats that having to do with me putting him down? I was explaining to him the reason why people wait till they have a base before AAS. This is also talking about his FUTURE cycles so when he does start his presumably second cycle he will know somethings.

And I have never said I am a know it all, quite the contrary, hence why I make threads when I don't know something.

So please clarify the point you are trying to make because im just not seeing it right now.

It's not like I told the kid "you ****ed up" and left the thread, I was actually giving him advice, because not everyone is going to go read through all the hundreds of stickies like you and me.

**MMArmour** · 01-19-2009, 04:13 PM

You have gyno symptoms??? Shit son. Thats more out of my league and ill let someone else give you the advice for the specifics of gyno supression with letro etc. No. Do NOT get any testosterone . Whats your proposed pct?? You have nolva and clomid? I would stop using winstrol and deca as of now. wait 2 weeks and start running nolva and clomid for 4 weeks at least. run nolva at 40mg/40mg/20mg/20mg (those are the weekly split) and clomid at 100mg/100mg/50mg/50mg. Id prolly get ahold of some HCG too.

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 04:14 PM

now its damage control...

**MMArmour** · 01-19-2009, 04:19 PM

dont run PCT right away. Wait 2 weeks from your last injection of Deca to begin. Will you lose size? probably. You cycled wrong bro and that has consequences. If your diet is in order and you can get your natural testosterone levels up you might keep some of it. run the nolva 40mg/day for the first 2 weeks then cut that to half. same with clomid. 100mg/day for the first 2 weeks then half it for another 2.

Also bump for someone to give this guy some gyno advice.

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-19-2009, 04:23 PM

get on nolva and an ai right away. Almost similar to pct but not exactly ..then in about 2.5 weeks after last deca shot start a standard pct protocol and follow it for 4 weeks IMO.

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 04:26 PM

think id run the pct 5 weeks.. i usually run 100mg clomid with 20mg nolvadex 4 weeks for pct .. think if i were him id keep the clomid at 100 for 3-4 weeks.. then drop it to 50 for a couple more with the nolvadex...

id definately start running an AI..
it is possible an AI or SERM may have no effect as deca can cause gyno issues via the AR.. thus rendering adex/nolvadex whatever useless..

**Dog-Slime** · 01-19-2009, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mammon

think id run the pct 5 weeks.. i usually run 100mg clomid with 20mg nolvadex 4 weeks for pct .. think if i were him id keep the clomid at 100 for 3-4 weeks.. then drop it to 50 for a couple more with the nolvadex...

id definately start running an AI..
it is possible an AI or SERM may have no effect as deca can cause gyno issues via the AR.. thus rendering adex/nolvadex whatever useless..

Could you elaborate on this a little please?

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-19-2009, 04:29 PM

^^good point ..thank god i have never had to deal with gyno issues personally.... PIA...

**xcalibur990** · 01-19-2009, 04:31 PM

ok guys.. thx alot for the advice.. and harsh to me is good. i took the advice of the guy i got this stuff from. so i took his word for the things i was doing. i do have hgc as well and nolva.. i will do as you say. i apprcieate the input, and am glad i came across this site..i apologize for my lack of knowledge and my studdying starts now!! thx for the advice and the heads up.. so i these bitch tits i have are a product of my own ignorance.. damn i have a few words for the guy who steered me wrong.. but thx for the advice no matter how harsh it was i apprciate this!!

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by xcalibur990

oki do have hgc as well and nolva.. !!

hcg ...

**chuckt12345** · 01-19-2009, 04:31 PM

gained 32lbs adn your not happy with your size? Just start pct in a few weeks and if your gyno doesnt go away with the nolva try some letro when your done with pct.

**xcalibur990** · 01-19-2009, 04:34 PM

not happy cause it dont look cut.. just real squishy. that is why i aint happy with my size. i am happy with the strength increase. but i am gonna reevaluate and start over thx for the advice again guys!

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-19-2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by xcalibur990

not happy cause it dont look cut.. just real squishy. that is why i aint happy with my size. i am happy with the strength increase. but i am gonna reevaluate and start over thx for the advice again guys!

Why did you go on steroids so quickly?

I mean you were 140 pounds, speaking from personal experience, when i first started working out I weighed 130 pounds and I was able to get up to 172 NATURALLY and it only took me 4-5 months.

The reason I say this is, you should have worked out till you got your weight up pretty close to your natural limit that way you have built a base naturally from which your AAS gains can build on.

Right now it looks like you have a good amount of water in your body (according to your description of your body). Now during your PCT you will lose that water weight so you will go down in weight, as for the muscle you have actually gotten off the cycle, no one here can tell you how much you will keep.

You may/may not lose a majority of muscle because you ran a cycle at such a low weight, the rest depends on diet and PCT and training during post cycle.

Best of Luck

**chuckt12345** · 01-19-2009, 04:38 PM

Good lluck,, fix yourself up with the pct. Then read up alot.

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 04:38 PM

good luck brutha.. deca only cycle are what the stay puff marshmellow man was on.. lol
alot of what you have there is water.. like a water balloon i bet.. that will drop off. hopefully you are left with some muscle you may have added due to the increase in strength.. keep us updated .. and questions ask bro..
kick your guy in the ass as well... lol

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-19-2009, 04:43 PM

^^^ so we can question what he already did over and over...or fvcking help him now...you done on your soapbox bro???

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-19-2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^^ so we can question what he already did over and over...or fvcking help him now...you done on your soapbox bro???

Did you even read my post? I was talking about my experience with having low weight and towards the end I told him what to expect during his PCT. The protocol and dosages were already posted by Mammon and I was telling him what to expect.

So what are you talking about?

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-19-2009, 05:14 PM

^^^you were right in your first post ..u sounded like a douchebag in both posts.... JMO ...Im over it....

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-19-2009, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^^you were right in your first post ..u sounded like a douchebag in both posts.... JMO ...Im over it....

In the first post, yes I sounded like a douchebag, hence why I wrote it, but my douhcebaggery was more out of concern and his unintentional ignorance then pure douchebaggery spite.

In my second post I disagree, I gave him my personal experience to which I can relate to him and told him what to expect in his PCT.

Your opinion is your opinion, I won't try to argue with it.

**MMArmour** · 01-19-2009, 05:31 PM

my 2 cents...you told him what he needed to hear Immortal. He needed alittle bit of an ass chewing i think. no harm done. he recieved it well.

**hankdiesel** · 01-19-2009, 08:36 PM

It will take you a long time to recover from this. You need to get some hcg , clomid, and nolvadex . Get your natural testosterone production up and running again because it is shut down hard. NEVER do this again. Research what a pct is and best of luck to you.

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 10:19 PM

nandrolone has been shown to activate estrogen response elements through the androgen receptor. so its possible in some cases the only way to stop estrogenic action from nandrolone is to block the AR, which would of course block all gains..

**Dog-Slime** · 01-19-2009, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Mammon

nandrolone has been shown to activate estrogen response elements through the androgen receptor. so its possible in some cases the only way to stop estrogenic action from nandrolone is to block the AR, which would of course block all gains..

Are their many AR's in the breast?

**Mammon** · 01-19-2009, 11:18 PM

the anti-estrogen 4-OH-tamoxifen showed a mild effect on lowering estrogenic effects from 19Nor derivatives. But neither an anti-progestin, nor an anti-aromatase had ANY effect. So the estrogenic effects are not the result of aromatisation, or progestagenic activity, and only caused for a very small part by the ER (confirming nandrolone 's low affinity for the ER. Another study I found showed that nandrolone's affinity for the ER seems to increase with dose as well for those interested).

In the end, researchers simply concluded that they did not know what caused the estrogenic activity. Then I found this study (3). It shows that the prohormone estren , a metabolite of nandrolone (it converts to nandrolone via 3aHSD, alpha version of Nor-diol) can activate estrogenic transcripts via the AR. It seems plausible then, that nandrolone probably has similar activity, which perfectly explains its estrogenic nature.

It does present us with the problem that one cannot block the estrogenic effects of nandrolone unless they block the AR.

Seems like another blow for nandrolone to me. Will have to wait and see if said theory holds true in breast tissue as well as bone of course.

EDIT : It seems estren is not a natural metabolite of nandrolone, in vitro and in vivo it converts almost completely to nandrolone, irreversibly. The time-frame of the effects as well as the required AR binding needed for the estrogenic effects in the last study presented seem to therefor indicate that nandrolone is in fact the mediator for the estrogenic effects via the AR perceived with estren. Estren converts entirely to nandrolone, nandrolone binds the AR and the AR homodimer activates estrogen response elements, with and activity 3 times larger than natural androgens, accounting for the unexplicable estrogenic effects perceived with nandrolone, quantified in the first study at roughly 60% that of estradiol

(1)J. Shields-Botella, I Duc, E. Duranti, F. Puccio, P. Bonnet, R. Delansorne, J. Paris. An overview of nomegestrol acetate selective receptor binding and lack of estrogenic action on hormone-dependent cancer cells. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry & Molecular Biology 87 (2003) 111-122.

(2) J. Botella,t E. Duranti, V. Viader, I. Duc, R. Delansorne, J. Paris. Lack of Estrogenic Potential of Progesterone- or 19-Nor-progesterone-derived Progestins as Opposed to Testosterone or 19-Nor- testosterone Derivatives on Endometrial Ishikawa Cells. Steroid Biochem. Molec. Biol. Vol. 55, No. 1, pp. 77-84, 1995.

(3) Centrella M, McCarthy TL, Chang WZ, Labaree DC, Hochberg RB.Estren (4-estren-3alpha,17beta-diol) is a prohormone that regulates both androgenic and estrogenic transcriptional effects through the androgen receptor.Mol Endocrinol. 2004 May;18(5):1120-30. Epub 2004 Feb 5.